rosie one 177 Report post Posted September 27, 2015 Tavistock is currently sitting 21st on the NZ Sires list Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
globederby12 1,495 Report post Posted September 27, 2015 Bitter about mediocrity? The delusions of grandeur continue from the Lotto brigade! The fact that is known and will be reflected at Karaka 2016 is that Tavistock 3YOs' made an imprerssion during the weakest crop of 3YOs in 20 years! There was no point arguing with the Lotto brigade until the Tavistock's stepped out of "age group racing" and against the big boys. The results, are as expected: How is VSB going against the big boys? Why is Hasslehoof still racing in the lower grade NZ Class races - it's not like the owners can't afford to put it on a plane to race in Aussie? I'm still waiting to be "Gobsmacked" about the Gloaming Stakes starter? The bubbles keep bursting as reality sets in after all the spin, spin SPIN! The cream always rises to the top with RACE RESULTS and Time Form Ratings - y'know, the cold hard, facts that SPIN can't buy Dal Cielo(Per Incanto) went super in Melbourne, Mongolian Khan keeps progressing impressively(oops TAS bred)... the Savabeel's continue to run well in Australia with the very unlucky G1 winner Pasadena's Girl etc etc etc... so yes I do enjoy the success of the quality NZ based stallions I will reiterate Blokes post. Early days ,it will only get better as time passes. Patrick didn't buy this horse on a whim. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,763 Report post Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) Tavistock is currently sitting 21st on the NZ Sires list Yes but 7th on the General Sires by wins list Rosie. ( Who would have put Zed in front - 15 winners from 36 starters...!?) Don't think anyone can complain about 7 individual winners and 8 wins from 22 starters. That won't include another impressive type, Curragh which won on Saturday. And Hasselhoof might turn out to be a special horse too........ Edited September 28, 2015 by Ohokaman Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swynford 121 Report post Posted September 28, 2015 Ohoka and others why do you put all your faith in the stallion to do the job for you. Zabeel was a champion YES left a Group One winner on average 1 in 40 something, with the right mare 1 in 8 (Vice Regal mares) The guy that bred Gondokoro brought the mare especially to go to Zabeel and bred TWO Group One winners. So far 2 from 4. These stats way above any stallions stats, Guess he knew what he was doing. Breeder 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohokaman 5,763 Report post Posted September 28, 2015 Ohoka and others why do you put all your faith in the stallion to do the job for you. Zabeel was a champion YES left a Group One winner on average 1 in 40 something, with the right mare 1 in 8 (Vice Regal mares) The guy that bred Gondokoro brought the mare especially to go to Zabeel and bred TWO Group One winners. So far 2 from 4. These stats way above any stallions stats, Guess he knew what he was doing. And Sir Patrick doesn't.....right...? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitzy 143 Report post Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) Swynford we rely on the stallion because most mares people breed from cant run out of sight on a dark night. Have you never noticed that only the best males are stallions but any filly or mare gets put to stud no matter how slow they are !!! Edited September 28, 2015 by fitzy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swynford 121 Report post Posted September 28, 2015 Have to agree with the lotto brigade, or as someone said some time ago and I think he was right on the button so take a bow who ever you are "one good horse creates a landslide" So when a stallion leaves say two or maybe three really good horses , we seem to forget about the 100 or so that are not up to the mark. I think O'Reilly left a Group One winner in about every 100 foals. For some dumb reason we think all their foals will be Group One winners, they are champion stallions even if they covered my child's rocking horse Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fitzy 143 Report post Posted September 28, 2015 Swynford whats your point ??? O'Reilly has 16 G1 winners from 1100 runners according to NZB stats. Now 82 SW's I think making him the 3rd most successful sire to have stood in NZ after Sir T and Zabeel. Over 700 winners - 67% winners to runners overall. Not a bad effort if you ask me. Not every kid that plays rugby makes the All Blacks - does that mean they should give up ?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swynford 121 Report post Posted September 28, 2015 Sir Patrick has joined the rich list and good on him, my dream is to do the same, but where are the brood-mare owners that helped both his stallions reach fame, surely they are 50 % of the deal, most are leaving the industry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swynford 121 Report post Posted September 28, 2015 my point is it really all the stallion Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swynford 121 Report post Posted September 28, 2015 my point is Fitzy if you rely totally on the stallion to do the job for you then you need to accept the fact that the best that they can do when it comes to producing a Group One winner is probably around 1 in 40 odd foals check Savabeel and come back to me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swynford 121 Report post Posted September 28, 2015 Cierzo the mother of Jimmy Choux was brought because of her bloodlines not her racing ability... she never won a race even though she was by so called flash stallion Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloke 1,232 Report post Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) I note in the thread started by Berri last year Titled "Tavistock Maybe A Winner", Mrs Ed posted "If the Tavistock's are any good they will be up winning in Aussie, simples" Well that is what has happened. VSB in his first start there, won a Group 1, and then placed in The Derby at Sydney. Werther second in two Group 1s and won a group Race. Now we have Trazino winning impressively at Caulfield. The Tavistocks have produced how you demanded Mrs Ed and therefore this confirms that he is good. Edited September 28, 2015 by bloke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swynford 121 Report post Posted September 28, 2015 Yes he is good Bloke if you want a Group One winner then he will produce you one after about 40 tries Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme 0 Report post Posted September 28, 2015 Tavistock has to be good. Top family! Grand Lodge. Gold Nib, Gold sovereign and the mighty Foxbridge. I've got 2 mares with this female family. Go Tavistock! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosie one 177 Report post Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) Yes but 7th on the General Sires by wins list Rosie. ( Who would have put Zed in front - 15 winners from 36 starters...!?) Don't think anyone can complain about 7 individual winners and 8 wins from 22 starters. That won't include another impressive type, Curragh which won on Saturday. And Hasselhoof might turn out to be a special horse too........ Zed has now got 17 winners so far this season. Now that is what you call bloodlines that just about went to waste. Zed should have be a very commercial Sire from the start...if he had not been injured he would have had the chance to prove himself on the track. Thanks to Little Avondale stud for getting Zed started at stud. GrangeWilliam Stud, now have Zed and they are doing a mighty job getting big numbers on the ground and his biggest crop to date are now Yearlings Edited September 28, 2015 by rosie one bloke 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloke 1,232 Report post Posted September 28, 2015 Rosie, this was very good marketing by Sam Williams of Little Avondale. Zed commenced at $500 and served over 100 mares in his first season. If he stood for say $3k he may have Struggled to get 20. Then his first crop started winning and the rest is history. biff and rosie one 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rosie one 177 Report post Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) Rosie, this was very good marketing by Sam Williams of Little Avondale. Zed commenced at $500 and served over 100 mares in his first season. If he stood for say $3k he may have Struggled to get 20. Then his first crop started winning and the rest is history. Yes !! Sam did something pretty special. Edited September 28, 2015 by rosie one Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs.Ed 54 Report post Posted September 28, 2015 (edited) I note in the thread started by Berri last year Titled "Tavistock Maybe A Winner", Mrs Ed posted "If the Tavistock's are any good they will be up winning in Aussie, simples" Well that is what has happened. VSB in his first start there, won a Group 1, and then placed in The Derby at Sydney. Werther second in two Group 1s and won a group Race. Now we have Trazino winning impressively at Caulfield. The Tavistocks have produced how you demanded Mrs Ed and therefore this confirms that he is good. Very noice attempt to SPIN what I said Bloke - it is to be expected from the Lotto brigade! I'll post the entirety of my original post, which was back in 2013, after a Tavistock won a $7k 2YO maiden at Otaki. "OH Come on you lot! This was a NZ 2YO race not an Aussie 2YO race! A mid week 2YO like Ockam's Razor(sp?) is good enough to win the Karaka Million while last season's "NZ champion 2YO" is yet to place in 5 runs in Aussie. If the Tavistocks are any good, they will end up winning in Aussie - simples!" The POST was referring to 2YO racing! No Tavistock 2YOs have won in Aussie to date! ps: TRAZINO beat a field of 1 wins/maidens and won't win the VRC Derby! Edited September 28, 2015 by Mrs.Ed Mainland Rookie 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloke 1,232 Report post Posted September 28, 2015 When you refer to The Lotto Brigade Mrs Ed you are insulting Sir Patrick. I note Tavistock's book for this season was full shortly after the fee was announced mainly because of his excellent record. He was the top second season sire. Your statement about the Tavistock's winning in Aussie did not mention 2 year olds winning in Aussie, you are clasping at straws. You went quiet for many months because you were made to look foolish when the Tavistock's winning run continued. Trazino may not win The VRC Derby but on his recent win he will have a big show if they decide to line him up. It is not uncommon for the winner of The Derby to be a one or two horse winner (Trazino has won two from three) and from memory a maiden has won it in recent years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs.Ed 54 Report post Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) Oh PAH-LEASE bloke! My POST in it's entirety is about 2YOs and only a "Spinner" would look at it any other way! The fact that you ASSUME I went quiet because of Tavistock's 3YOs winning in the worst crop of 3YOs in 20 years, it is you who are clasping at straws - if I had been in NZ for most of this year, would have followed NZ racing more closely and already previously stated: no point debating the Lotto brigade until Tavistocks stepped out of restricted 3YO age racing and UP against the big boys. Tavistock's book was full shortly after the fee was announced because there is far too many low grade mares in NZ that were sent to him instead of one of the other Lotto stallions standing in NZ! How many Group mares or mares from quality families outside Cambridge Stud did Tavistock get? re TRAZINO, we'll see how the form of a field of 1 win/maidens stack up in the coming weeks! This is a thread about Tavistock, so I will refrain from commenting further about Cambridge Stud or being accused of insulting Patrick Hogan. Edited September 29, 2015 by Mrs.Ed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloke 1,232 Report post Posted September 29, 2015 Tavistock's book filled up overnight due his deeds as a sire not your insulting comments about low grade mares. Sir Patrick is sending all of his Zabeel mares to Tavistock, he would not be doing this if Tavistock had not performed. You are a bitter person. You mouthed off over a year ago and have been made to look stupid and wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs.Ed 54 Report post Posted September 29, 2015 (edited) Again: Bitter about MEDICORITY? lol lol lol - your delusions continue to get worst. Clearly you continue to display you can't read: Firstly a post about 2YOS and now you sate the bloody obvious about Patrick sending all of his Zabeel mares to Tavistock after the question was asked: "How many Group mares or mares from quality families outside Cambridge Stud did Tavistock get? Also remember that Patrick Hogan claimed "He had found the one" in Burgundy - NOT Tavistock lol It's ok to dream Bloke and continue the way you do - and I DO hope that you win Lotto and breed a Tavistock that race results, Time Form, people without prejudice: world class trainers, bloodstock agents and breeders rate, because the NZ breeding industry DEFINATELY needs a stallion to step into the shoes of Zabeel after losing it's way for sooooo long!. Let the Sales Results, Race Results and Time Form Ratings do Tavistocks talking - cause your "opinions" are actually making him look like a Lotto Stallion Edited September 29, 2015 by Mrs.Ed Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloke 1,232 Report post Posted September 29, 2015 You keep insulting Sir Patrick, this time your Burgundy comments. I will leave you alone for now and let others judge your stupidity. Winners are grinners and Tavistock as a sire has done well to date with much more to come. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs.Ed 54 Report post Posted September 29, 2015 The only stupidity is a bloke who SPINS opinion as fact when Time Form ratings, Race Results(franking form) are readily available for the intelligent to utilise. If you feel insulted by the fact that Patrick Hogan publicly claimed he had found "The One" in Burgundy, instead of your beloved Tavistock, then you need to take that up with him! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...