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Berri

Tavistock

173 posts in this topic

You might think that I could be biased talking about this horse but to fess up, I don't have a share, mare in foal, nominations or any animal by this beast.... so I have no benefit at all in my comments...but....

 

I've seen a number of these at the trials. They all look the same...and they look like Montjeu's. They act like Montjeu's and they have actions like him. They look like stayers but with plenty of muscle and constitution. I've talked with a lot of trainers about his progeny and most have a "good one".

 

This stallion could be a sleepy. I know the one out of Power and Might is so highly regarded that he has already gone to Aussie as a once trialled horse, in Moroney's stable and is being set for the VRC Derby.....maybe Patrick has done it again

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I have spent sometime studying this stallions gene pool and have come to the conclusion he has a good opportunity with some of the older broodmares in existence. I tend to lean toward strong,fast stayers who have good gene pool constitution and inherited athletic ability.

I am interested to have comments on type and constitution of progeny to see if there is a typical mold that can be attributed to this gene pool that may benefit and support my opinion.  

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If you wee in Europe and saw this stallions progeny, and they were by Montjeu, you'd be paying huge money for them. They are strong, have natural muscle and look to be able to run at two.....BUT....that's not what they are. They are short coupled strong stayers with great characters who show enough at two to hope that IF they can stay, they're a huge chance. I have some stats that say that he produces between 6-8 stakes winners from his first crop but we will have to wait until they are at least three to see if I'm right.

For those of you that have them, be slightly patient and I think you will be rewarded.

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It will be interesting to see if your stats come to fruition and I hope they do.

 

I would like to know why many think the Montjeus are temperamental, I do not have one,  - is this a fact surrounding himself as a racehorse, I know much can be attributed to the mare but I haven't heard that said about Sadler's Wells.

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The fillies are definitely tricky and the colts need to be handled correctly. The geldings are a little more straight forward but they also have quirks. Apparently a lot of the attitude comes from grand dam ADELE TOUMIGNON who had a lot of attitude and was by Zeddaan who was seriously hot. Zeddan was by Grey Sovereign who was a man eater and produced a number of extremely temperamental off spring. We saw it here in this country in the form of Sovereign Edition who it must be said was a champion stallion but they were tough to handle.

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Berri how would you rate the stallions from Montjeu standing in NZ and value for money on stud fees, Nom de Jeu Derby Winner, Mettre en Jue 2nd in NZ Derby, less stud fee than Tavistock, and Pour Moi (The Derby) standing at the most

 

Stallion Ccode Yof - To Stud

Sire

Stud

Racing Ability

Stud Ability

Service Fee

Gallant Guru (AUS) 2002 - 2007

Montjeu (IRE)

White Robe Lodge

GWinner

SWinners

$4,000

Gorky Park (NZ) 2003 - 2011

Montjeu (IRE)

Paxton Park

SWinner

NR

$1,000

Guillotine (NZ) 2004 - 2009

Montjeu (IRE)

Windsor Park Stud

GWinner

GWinners

$12,500

Mettre en Jeu (NZ) 2003 - 2009

Montjeu (IRE)

Letham Thoroughbreds

SWinner

Winners

$2,000

Nom du Jeu (NZ) 2004 - 2010

Montjeu (IRE)

Fairdale Stud

G1Winner

Placegetters

$6,000

Pour Moi (IRE) 2008 - 2012

Montjeu (IRE)

Windsor Park Stud

G1Winner

NR

$14,000

Tavistock (NZ) 2005 - 2010

Montjeu (IRE)

Cambridge Stud

G1Winner

SWinners

$7,000

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Abernant I find the pedigree of Gorky Park and Guillotine interesting as both are from Defensive Play mares and both bought by Les Samba - Gorky Park is going to have to do it the hard way but it will be interesting to follow.

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If you're asking me how I would personally rate these stallions I's offer the following comments...

Pour Moi was seriously talented (you may remember Barcelona standing high in the irons celebrating two strides before the post when he won by less than a neck) and is the highest rated of all the stallions.

Putting it into perspective, when he won the Derby he rolled Treasure Beach and Carlton House. Treasure Beach won the Irish Derby at his next start and we've had a glimpse of that form when Carlton House ran second to So You Think (beaten 2 1/2), a head behind Silent Achiever and third to Its a Dundeel in the $4m race in Aussie. Pour Moi was much superior to Carlton House in the Derby and then hurt himself. As a type he would seem to suit the environment down here, having a turn of foot and being a short coupled stayer.

Tavistock is a bit of an enigma in that he's a sprinting Montjeu. But that probably comes from his female line who are very fast. Tavistock's third dam, Mrs Moss is a broodmare freak. Apart from a number of other group winners, two of her offspring are testament to the versatility of her pre-potency. Jupiter Island won the Japan Cup and the other, Precocious was an unbeaten freak 2yo who cracked his knee and needed to be retired. When I mean freak, I mean freak....you know the type....5 lengths on their ear type of wins in good group races. But at a guess I think Tavistock is throwing fast stayers.

Although Nom de Jeu won the Derby, it was on a wet track which un did many of his opposition. He's a nice horse but his form left him exposed.

Mettre en Jeu was also a nice horse but with just OK form for a stallion.

Guillotine has proven he can produce a good horse. I remember seeing him as a yearling and its no wonder Nelson decided to buy him back and stand him as a stallion. His SW to foals is quite low (2%) but as he gets better mares he should improve on this.

Gorky Park and Galant Guru are good middle of the line group horses. They will no doubt get their own "best " horses but it's going to be hard work promoting them a guaranteed stallion material.

The other horse along the same sire line to look at in NZ is Rip Van Winkle. I've seen enough of them to know that if they have the genetic "run" gene, then on type they're going to go an awful long way. They are great types.

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And yet more impressive wins today

I note the breeding of yesterday's two feature races....one is out of an exceed and excell (champion) mare and the other from a volksraad (champion) mare, and bother horses look like they have thrown to the type of their dame sires to my eye,

HOWEVER.... Good on the sire, as he's obviously allowing genetics / performance to 'out'.... He's growing on me. Too impress I'd like to see a modest pedigree horse come good. IMHO

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The most prepotent cross in Europe is Sadlers Wells over Danzig and/ or vice versa. One of the reasons Patrick grabbed Travistock is that he was the fatsest Sadlers Wells type and in Australasia there are plenty of Danehill line animals. It's going to be interesting to see what happens from here. Obviously they can gallop

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"Guillotine has proven he can produce a good horse. I remember seeing him as a yearling and its no wonder Nelson decided to buy him back and stand him as a stallion."

Re Guillotine - I should say he can produce a nice horse - Beauty's Beast, Angelica Hall and Allez Eagle for starters.

He is of course a half brother to the great Efficient, himself a Derby and Melbourne Cup winner so will be interesting to see whether he leaves true stayers and if his progeny get better with age.

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Congrats to Cambridge Stud and I hope he is the 'real deal' but with 160 foals and 23 runners (Arion)

I will reserve judgement for a while :)

Seriously Louise, don't wait for too long or you will miss the bus. 

I will guarantee you, that he will never be 7K again.

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Put this one in the book....Tavy by Tavistock out of The Cats Whiskers. Ran second at Taupo behind the Alamosa. My call is that this filly is top class. She really wants to be a race horse.

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A very interesting day ahead for this stallion. At Elerslie today:

 

Diamond Duchess (promising first up 4th) races in the 2.45

 

Tavy is against Midnitemagicman in the 3.25. Of real note in this race is that when Tavy won her first start she beat Palace Rock (a 4 length winner at her next start) with Midnitemagicman storming home from last at the home turn to run third in the same race. Remember Midnitemagicman has run 2nd to Avisto in the foal stakes as a two year old.

 

Margin Trader in the 3.57. This is a very interesting horse. He's the horse the Moroneys have had a huge rap on and he won his first start in Melbourne. The owners decided they wanted to win the NZ Derby so he's come back for that. He's an absolutely cracking type.

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