Trainers To Take Action

[Guest 2Admin2]

Members

PipPipPipPipPipPip

6,283 posts

Locationorthodox, but athletically opined...

Posted Today, 12:22 PM

Warning!

any attempt at centralisation..will lead to the same demise by different routes.

Not so Hedley, It hasn't done Harness Racing any harm, the only difference being Harness race on all weather surfaces.

Does that register "anyone home" in NZR?

 

I tend to agree trackdap - the reality is that an increasing majority of our tracks are not being maintained nor are the facilities for the horses.  In fact they are bordering on unsafe.

[hedley 1,900]

Members

PipPipPipPipPipPip

6,283 posts

Locationorthodox, but athletically opined...

Posted Today, 12:22 PM

Warning!

any attempt at centralisation..will lead to the same demise by different routes.

Not so Hedley, It hasn't done Harness Racing any harm, the only difference being Harness race on all weather surfaces.

Does that register "anyone home" in NZR?

 

what's with the pip pip pip crap! ..can't you conduct yourself in a gentlemanly manner .

 

the difference that's allowed Harness racing to cluster more, Is the allweather surface!

 

Harness grass track racing is conducted mainly in the seasons when the tracks are firm.

 

 

if Thoroughbreds attempt to cluster or centralise, then the industry will quickly lose participants who're too far away from the facilities.

..that then means a fall in ownerships and trainerships and the staffings that entail those operations.

..it'll also follow that a drop in turnover eventuates, through lesser race dates and a lesser horse populous.

 

i've provided the remedy, but you all seem scared of the corporates or else have them falsely 'hallowed'.[jeeze!., Can't you read their form ]

[Brown Fox 867]

It's all in the trainers first point."Lack of racing knowledge on the NZRB."

 

Less travel-more consultation with Trainers and Owners

[scooby3051 10,869]

Sure, I have a different perspective because I am not a trainer finding it hard to make a buck. Why should  Mr or Mrs Joe Public hear one side of this issue and get involved?  It doesn't effect their lives, so why should they?   It is my opinion this is a gripe within the industry and should be sorted accordingly.  Negativity breeds negativity.   Perhaps we should remember that positive people like young James McDonald this week has probably done more for the industry than a group of disgruntled trainers would.

 

Interesting that the trainers have picked the low season to take action, why is that?

Jane as an owner I would support this too, hell we have one who has won 6 times and still we lose money, it is ridiculous,one win does not even pay upkeep for a month or more. Yes there are a lot of issues in the industry, and if they are not fixed there will be many more  James McDonalds that pack their bags and go.

[hedley 1,900]

I tend to agree trackdap - the reality is that an increasing majority of our tracks are not being maintained nor are the facilities for the horses.  In fact they are bordering on unsafe.

 

..and i've explained why these deteriorations have come about., the bloody 'suits' and their misappropriation of funds, and their hairbrained schemes upon hunches, and a lacking of track managerships to read Weather maps properly and foresee the appropriate 'own algebra'.

 

the money to resurrect the industry is available., But for the 'city' of suits we have running the 'small show'..vacuum-cleaning the funds on paying them excessively, as well as their excessive Numbers!

 

 

Centralisation won't work because we don't have the critical mass of population for that theory to be able to work.

..the attrition it would cause, would be enough numbers to collapse the industry Anyhow...especially with the weight of Salary burden the 'city' of suits are. !

 

resurrect the track surfaces and club infrastructures..with the monies made available by the halving of the 'city' of suits that run our small but traditionally vibrant jurisdiction.

 

As the tracks and infrastructure become resurrected and 'saved'...the funds that Were going into that, then become evermore available for the Stakes recovery Pyramid. [then we thrive once again]..[and where careers within Racing again prove numerous and contributional to National G.D.P.]

 

 

Centralisation will fail, because it's a theory.

..New Zealand's thoroughbred industry relies upon a rural hinterland of tributaries...reticulating in country racings 'feeding' the 'city' racings.

 

If we had a population of 12 to 15 million, then centralisation employed, would see an 'industry left'..that hindsight might regard as as successful Current going concern., but before that plimsole was reached, there would've been 'casualties' that would've pulled out or been forced out, and the country Whole population would've assymulated them back into some other vocation or bare minimum..employment.

N.Z. as it stands..and our Industry as it stands, could Not withstand the theory of centralisation for just some of the reasons i've outlined., notwithstanding the many more binary reasons that would radially eminate from the detrimental excersise undertaken!

 

This 'industrial action' just announced today, is the correct 'forcefield' to be levering against our bereft and cavalier administration corporate., Minus the foolery and folly of attempting any centralisation at All!

..that doesn't discount the building of an all weather training and trialling facility Somewhere 'central' in the northern reaches, Nor does it mean not having One modern strathyr track at some future time when having followed my basic formulae..there would come a time [10yrs away]..where the industry would have the funds available for such ventures..to further the thrivedment of the long term globally sellable product and industry showcase.

[trakdap 390]

The foolery and folly is trying to maintain a "heap" of tracks/facilities unfit/unsafe for both horses and humans as admin also attests too.

Please let common sense prevail.

[Ohokaman 5,825]

Sure, I have a different perspective because I am not a trainer finding it hard to make a buck. Why should  Mr or Mrs Joe Public hear one side of this issue and get involved?  It doesn't effect their lives, so why should they?   It is my opinion this is a gripe within the industry and should be sorted accordingly.  Negativity breeds negativity.   Perhaps we should remember that positive people like young James McDonald this week has probably done more for the industry than a group of disgruntled trainers would.

 

Interesting that the trainers have picked the low season to take action, why is that?

James McDonald won't change things in the industry. This action just might....

[rdytdy 5,341]

Having read this article again and given it more thought, why are the trainers doing this in isolation and why are they not encompassing the NZRB when it comes to costs and accountability also.  

 

Wouldn't it have been worth more to have also had the support of associations such as the Owners Association etc to provide a united front from stakeholders and not just trainers after all some of the things called for affect owners.

 

They want.

 

1.Input into all policy that impacts on trainers, their clients (which is owners, who basically employ the trainer). 

 

2. Payment for providing horses to run on race day. (this payment should go to owners who actually supply the horse not the trainer).

 

The matter of costs by NZTR not only impacts trainers it impacts on owners also.

 

So, were the Owners Association consulted re all this and asked to support thereby making a united front?

 

 

NZTR get funding by the NZRB and their operating costs impact on what is available for distribution to the codes. Their operating costs have increased immensely over the past decade and we have things such as $14 million write offs for flawed computer projects that did not have due dillegence applied, operating costs by the TAB and costs/losses associated with such things as Triple Trio etc. Salaries and wages. If the NZRB were to reduce operating costs by 10% what it would that mean in return to the codes alone?

 

What the trainers are asking for is only a tiny band aid to cover a scratch basically and what is required, as has happened in Australia , is direct imput and funding from government to stimulate growth in racing.

 

We do not need a Minister Of Racing, we need a Minister FOR racing and a supportive Government. They can support the Arts, Sport, America's Cups etc but don't seem to recognise what racing contributes to this countries economy in terms of tax revenue, employment, along with the GDP return to the country. 

 

To make any meaningful impact is to get full support from from all industry sectors, everyone stand up, and pull the pin for a complete Saturday's racing. No horses paying up to race. That will get not only the full attention of the media here but surely overseas media as well which will be embarrassing for any Government. The resultant media coverage will also bring it to the general public,s attention and I am sure that the Government wouldn't remain idle for long if this happened a couple of times.  

 

We don't need Nero fiddling  whilst Rome is burning. 

[Ohokaman 5,825]

I doubt it would have got this far without some consultation beforehand Ted.

Tony Pike is no mug and would understand the strategy of a "united front" with Trainers taking the lead.

Your other comments re exposure echo those I posted earlier.

[Portfolio 728]

Maybe this racing game will never be what it used to be.....

It is not going to get easier anytime soon.....so stakes have not been increasing...we all know that.

But what is killing the game is all of the other costs....trainers bills....vet bills..travel bills.....acc etc. I am not saying anyone is over charging....but look at  what is being charged to owners now....how can things get better.

 

Do the sums....those that raced a few years ago.....it was not so much the stakes....it was the other costs were low compared to today.

People expect a miracle...there is not going to be one.

 

So here is some advice....race a horse but don't think it is going to make you money....treat it like motorsport or yachting.....an expensive sport....but maybe you have a chance of getting some money back if your lucky.

[Ohokaman 5,825]

Having read this article again and given it more thought, why are the trainers doing this in isolation and why are they not encompassing the NZRB when it comes to costs and accountability also.  

 

Wouldn't it have been worth more to have also had the support of associations such as the Owners Association etc to provide a united front from stakeholders and not just trainers after all some of the things called for affect owners.

 

They want.

 

1.Input into all policy that impacts on trainers, their clients (which is owners, who basically employ the trainer). 

 

2. Payment for providing horses to run on race day. (this payment should go to owners who actually supply the horse not the trainer).

 

The matter of costs by NZTR not only impacts trainers it impacts on owners also.

 

So, were the Owners Association consulted re all this and asked to support thereby making a united front?

 

 

NZTR get funding by the NZRB and their operating costs impact on what is available for distribution to the codes. Their operating costs have increased immensely over the past decade and we have things such as $14 million write offs for flawed computer projects that did not have due dillegence applied, operating costs by the TAB and costs/losses associated with such things as Triple Trio etc. Salaries and wages. If the NZRB were to reduce operating costs by 10% what it would that mean in return to the codes alone?

 

What the trainers are asking for is only a tiny band aid to cover a scratch basically and what is required, as has happened in Australia , is direct imput and funding from government to stimulate growth in racing.

 

We do not need a Minister Of Racing, we need a Minister FOR racing and a supportive Government. They can support the Arts, Sport, America's Cups etc but don't seem to recognise what racing contributes to this countries economy in terms of tax revenue, employment, along with the GDP return to the country. 

 

To make any meaningful impact is to get full support from from all industry sectors, everyone stand up, and pull the pin for a complete Saturday's racing. No horses paying up to race. That will get not only the full attention of the media here but surely overseas media as well which will be embarrassing for any Government. The resultant media coverage will also bring it to the general public,s attention and I am sure that the Government wouldn't remain idle for long if this happened a couple of times.  

 

We don't need Nero fiddling  whilst Rome is burning.

I missed Des Coppins Show this morning. Was this issue raised or discussed...???

[puha 2,177]

The main ones who support the centralisation seem to be the ones who will hope to gain the most.Hedley has made many valid points as to why this is a doomed idea for New Zealand.Heck Ellerslie has the largest population best oncourse facilities and struggle to get anyone oncourse go figure.

[slam dunk 1,317]

Trainers are definitely the key strategic players in the industry. They link with most of the other participants.

 

However as a group they suffer from an inferiority complex. As a result they allow organisations such as NZTR run roughshot by assuming anyone on a high salary is going to deliver miracles for them.

 

Trainers should build on their strength and create their own destiny. Why should they expect others do that.

[noonu 93]

Most prudent industry leaders look at there cost structure, the biggest one of course is normally top heavy executive salaries and perks.

The racing industry is a classic,under performing personnel on ridiculous salaries and trough feeding wherever and whenever they can.

The government has led the way in minimising and getting rid of top heavy costs in various departments but somehow what really is a pseudo govt dept i.e TAB come NZRB come NZTR are just overloading all the time. There is far too many employed in head office(s) and that has to be addressed first.

Accountability is a forgotten word in the racing game hierarchy and this needs to happen or the excursions along with poor performance will remain being the norm.

If there is anyone out there who does not support this initiative from the NZTA then they are dreamers.Unless action is taken now (no matter how many world wars etc the industry has survived ) it will just fade into oblivion with less and less participants.

I'm afraid days are numbered for the fools who continue to bludge on this great industry and think they are immune.

Start packing your bags.

[hedley 1,900]

[chiknsmack 485]

what's with the pip pip pip crap! ..can't you conduct yourself in a gentlemanly manner .

 

When he quoted you he highlighted from your name down. See where, under the word "member" under your picture there are six dots? Those showed up in his post as "PipPipPipPipPipPip".

[hedley 1,900]

well it'd be nice th't that was the explaination..for it was very easy for me to think that the term was derogatory, as that phrasiology has/was terminology in English in older times etc.

 

Thankyou for the diplomatic mediation though., "nice"

and if it was a posting quirk, then i obviously apologise to Trakdap

[rdytdy 5,341]

I doubt it would have got this far without some consultation beforehand Ted.

Tony Pike is no mug and would understand the strategy of a "united front" with Trainers taking the lead.

Your other comments re exposure echo those I posted earlier.

 

 

My understanding is that there was no consultation beforehand Ohokaman and this is a Trainer's Association stand alone.

 

What is needed is a united front on the real industry issues as I highlighted above and not a fragmented band aid approach.

 

I had my farrier here this morning and missed Des's show.

[von Smallhaussen 3,226]

The outcome from all of this that would surprise me the least .....

Mr's Pike and Pitman being on conditional licenses just like our own zzz 

 

That is the way dictators work! 

[Guest 2Admin2]

The outcome from all of this that would surprise me the least .....

Mr's Pike and Pitman being on conditional licenses just like our own zzz

That is the way dictators work!

Yes and I bet NZTR doesn't declare how much industry money is being spent on lawyers! I gather it is in the hundreds of thousands I.e. a fair few damn good maiden stakes.

[biff 2,158]

Having read this article again and given it more thought, why are the trainers doing this in isolation and why are they not encompassing the NZRB when it comes to costs and accountability also.  

 

Wouldn't it have been worth more to have also had the support of associations such as the Owners Association etc to provide a united front from stakeholders and not just trainers after all some of the things called for affect owners.

 

They want.

 

1.Input into all policy that impacts on trainers, their clients (which is owners, who basically employ the trainer). 

 

2. Payment for providing horses to run on race day. (this payment should go to owners who actually supply the horse not the trainer).

 

The matter of costs by NZTR not only impacts trainers it impacts on owners also.

 

So, were the Owners Association consulted re all this and asked to support thereby making a united front?

 

 

NZTR get funding by the NZRB and their operating costs impact on what is available for distribution to the codes. Their operating costs have increased immensely over the past decade and we have things such as $14 million write offs for flawed computer projects that did not have due dillegence applied, operating costs by the TAB and costs/losses associated with such things as Triple Trio etc. Salaries and wages. If the NZRB were to reduce operating costs by 10% what it would that mean in return to the codes alone?

 

What the trainers are asking for is only a tiny band aid to cover a scratch basically and what is required, as has happened in Australia , is direct imput and funding from government to stimulate growth in racing.

 

We do not need a Minister Of Racing, we need a Minister FOR racing and a supportive Government. They can support the Arts, Sport, America's Cups etc but don't seem to recognise what racing contributes to this countries economy in terms of tax revenue, employment, along with the GDP return to the country. 

 

To make any meaningful impact is to get full support from from all industry sectors, everyone stand up, and pull the pin for a complete Saturday's racing. No horses paying up to race. That will get not only the full attention of the media here but surely overseas media as well which will be embarrassing for any Government. The resultant media coverage will also bring it to the general public,s attention and I am sure that the Government wouldn't remain idle for long if this happened a couple of times.  

 

We don't need Nero fiddling  whilst Rome is burning. 

Ted, my major gripe [also mentioned by yourself] is the participation payment. I have raced many horses here in Sydney and Melbourne. The starters bonus [as it was called by the STC =Sydney Turf Club] and to who's credit initiated it, was and is paid to the owners via the trainers direct debit/credit. It automatically comes off your bill.

 

It was a major innovation and it was the single most beneficial adjunct to the owner!……..how many people it attracted to ownership is debatable, but by God it was welcomed. Yes, many battling trainers started to run their charges in town, in races they couldn't win or place. They did this in favour of barrier trialling from the cost angle and it helped the race club with much increased tote turnover.

 

It was a win win……..I only hope people power convinces the temporary Kiwi in Petone to listen, and stop being pigheaded, then and only then will the right things get done. IMO of course.

[Insider 3,947]

Members

PipPipPipPipPipPip

6,283 posts

Locationorthodox, but athletically opined...

Posted Today, 12:22 PM

Warning!

any attempt at centralisation..will lead to the same demise by different routes.

Not so Hedley, It hasn't done Harness Racing any harm, the only difference being Harness race on all weather surfaces.

Does that register "anyone home" in NZR?

Trakdap, tell me were the centralisation in Harness Racing has taken place in the last 20/30 years and it has worked.

 

In the South Island I haven't seen much much centralisation at all. From what I can remember they are still using all the tracks today that they were 30 years ago except for a few like Hororata.

 

The Lower North Island, now that's a different matter! With the closure of Hutt Park Harness Racing in the area is now all but dead.

[Guest 2Admin2]

Trakdap, tell me were the centralisation in Harness Racing has taken place in the last 20/30 years and it has worked.

In the South Island I haven't seen much much centralisation at all. From what I can remember they are still using all the tracks today that they were 30 years ago except for a few like Hororata.

The Lower North Island, now that's a different matter! With the closure of Hutt Park Harness Racing in the area is now all but dead.

For a start Canterbury park and New Brighton have gone and Reefton races more often than not at Addington. Victoria Park has gone. Kumeu is where?

[Insider 3,947]

For a start Canterbury park and New Brighton have gone and Reefton races more often than not at Addington. Victoria Park has gone. Kumeu is where?

In my lifetime 60+ years Canterbury Park have never raced anywhere else. When it raced it was a tenant club at Addington just like the Pakuranga Hunt at Ellerslie.

 

New Brighton closed down in the 1960's. On the site they built QE2 Park for the Commonwealth Games in the 70's. [40 years ago]

 

As I understand it both Canterbury Park and New Brighton morphed into the Metropolitan Club to become a super club just like Auckland is a super city. [PS I was once a Member of all three Clubs but that was a long time ago!]

 

Reefton! Do they really race more often at Addington than Reefton? Gee I didn't know that. I have only ever noticed them racing at Reefton during the Christmas Coast circuit.

 

Victoria Park [Greymouth] That course was on Maori leasehold land and when the tribe wanted more money racing there wasn't sustainable!

 

Kumeu, A wise decision to race at Alexander Park.

 

I hope the above helps with the actual history.

[trakdap 390]

insider,

Amberley TC, New Brighton TC, Hororata TC, Akaroa TC, Cheviot TC. and Victoria Park (Greymouth) no longer exists to name a few.