Was Mahanadi schooled over steeples?

[pete 492]

Do you really blame Dummy? get real! ho can he get a horse to school like this on a particular day? blame the people who give the licence to the horse that is approved to race on race day!  you know any horse Dummy lines up on raceday is fit and well..........look at his strike rate compared to the season's leading trainer!!!!!!! why not query all their runners the same?

What you say sounds plausible until you factor in the other stable runner who won at double figure odds.

[Michael Roustoby 292]

A casual punter wouldnt have backed a maiden in a feature race unless they had inside mail the horse was a freak.

Stable jockey on the winner too.

If you look at it this way it doesnt sound dodgy at all.

Just a few punters overrated a horse they assumed was good chaser

[pete 492]

So why run it first up in a feature steeples?

[WhoKnows 791]

Was hardly a maiden to be fair, won one of the biggest hurdle races last year, a feature flat race at its last start, and you would think given how high you rate Dummy's training skills ( which are definitely not in question, just his morals), it would of at least be able to ke up with a bunch of, let's be fair, has been steeplechasers.

[Michael Roustoby 292]

I like to go off facts and figures and not specualtion but for all we know mahanadi could have been entered as the field was very small.

Maybe the owners were keen to run?

End of the day i dont know, but when field came out and the stable jockey was on palemo i took it as palemo was the stables number 1 runner.

I was suprised mahanadi was so short and i was scratching my head thinking if he is that good why wouldnt the stable jockey be on?

Its not rocket science

[Todamax101 533]

Surely when they were schooling him over the jumps yesterday he would have shown signs that his skills over the steeples were not up to scratch? With almost all of the jumps he was shown going over he slowed to a crawl and then jumped awkwardly. Why run a horse in a feature steeple race like that when he's clearly not comfortable with the big fences?

[Michael Roustoby 292]

He was a maiden chaser end of story.

Being a dashing hurdler doesnt make you a good chaser.

Why wasnt the stable jockey on?

Did you consider this before you lapped up the tomato sauce odds on offer?

[pete 492]

Ok Michael accepted we disagree.

How bad did Cafferty look on Arose?

[Michael Roustoby 292]

Terrible. Fined $250

[Chestnut 3,151]

Agree Michael.  Dummy didn't make him the favourite, everyone who thought he would win and who bet on him did that.

 

I love his speed on the flat, he's definitely got that and he made up ground on them between fences but he didn't look comfortable and the way he stumbled over some of them would have hurt him a bit (maybe because he couldn't see through them like you can hurdles and he found it hard to judge them).    It was his first run, he got in the field, why not try him in a big race if he can get in, again why blame the connections for that?   Everyone betting on him knew that if they read the form or followed racing, and if folk new to racing only bet on him because he was the favourite then who is to blame for the pied piper syndrome, not the trainer or the horse, or jockey.

 

I didn't want to risk not taking him because of his flat speed, so I tossed him in with Palemo in the tipping comp, who was the more seasoned runner over fences.  I respect Dummy as a trainer, he knows how to train a good winter runner, and do you really think that if fixing a race goes through your mind that you would have losing it by that much in your game plan?   Accusing people of that, even on a forum is pretty serious stuff.

 

I think the jockey was smiling and happy because he'd chosen to ride the horse with more potential on the day and it paid off.

[LastOf40 547]

Loyalty to fellow horsemen is commendable but I am sorry, what we witnessed today was a sham.

We are not talking about a novice jumper here but a horse good enough to win a Grand National Hurdles.

Punters had the right to expect that changing to steeplechasing would have occurred after proving to the trainer and owner that it was at least competent over the steeples, or stay hurdling. Having the stablemate win just rubbed salt into the wounds.

Racing is going through tough times and how many switched off betting at the end of that race?

The perception of many is that you have to be "in the know" to succeed in betting and that was reinforced today, on the track and on this forum.

[pete 492]

Agree Michael.  Dummy didn't make him the favourite, everyone who thought he would win and who bet on him did that.

 

I love his speed on the flat, he's definitely got that and he made up ground on them between fences but he didn't look comfortable and the way he stumbled over some of them would have hurt him a bit (maybe because he couldn't see through them like you can hurdles and he found it hard to judge them).    It was his first run, he got in the field, why not try him in a big race if he can get in, again why blame the connections for that?   Everyone betting on him knew that if they read the form or followed racing, and if folk new to racing only bet on him because he was the favourite then who is to blame for the pied piper syndrome, not the trainer or the horse, or jockey.

 

I didn't want to risk not taking him because of his flat speed, so I tossed him in with Palemo in the tipping comp, who was the more seasoned runner over fences.  I respect Dummy as a trainer, he knows how to train a good winter runner, and do you really think that if fixing a race goes through your mind that you would have losing it by that much in your game plan?   Accusing people of that, even on a forum is pretty serious stuff.

 

I think the jockey was smiling and happy because he'd chosen to ride the horse with more potential on the day and it paid off.

Nice thoughts Chestnut but Mr Myers has previous in this area.

The fact the horse was an odds on shot would raise alarm bells anywhere else but NZ

[Chestnut 3,151]

Well he was obviously competent over steeples that he'd been trialled on. fences he knows.   I'm not sure that I would bet big money on any horse that was racing in steeples for the first time, no matter what their background and all of them would have trialled on them first.    Just because a horse can jump. it doesn't mean they can jump over anything or want to.  Hurdles and Steeples are quite different to a horse running towards them if they are not used to what is over the other side.   We could see that half way through the race when he was jumping high.. he wasn't sure.. so no, I don't think that we can bank on a novice jumper that was brilliant at hurdles, being brilliant at jumping.. not to start with anyway.. maybe next start he'll be more sure of himself as there will be more work done in preparing him.. and what if that happens.. everyone will have a field day again.. poking a stick saying ahhh it was a set up after all, which will undoubtedly make many happy.   The interesting thing will be how many people risk not backing him

[nek minute 296]

gee if i had a chaser that was still a maiden chaser and i could get a run in a small feild worth good money i would jump at the chance. i couldnt understand why he was so short!! dummy obviously got the winner to peak to win today and all the fools that backed the hot pot maidener in the open feild should have a look at themselves if they expected him to just go out and win! dummy is a master and obviously this horse wasnt at his best today bit harsh to pin it on the trainer im sure he wouldnt of minded if the horse run a cheeky race at his 1st steplechase and go some of the nice prizemoney

[Chestnut 3,151]

Agree Nek.

[scooby3051 10,873]

Guys please show me what Dummy actually did wrong... other than run a horse some of you "experts" thought should have run better...

[pete 492]

Well he was obviously competent over steeples that he'd been trialled on. fences he knows.   I'm not sure that I would bet big money on any horse that was racing in steeples for the first time, no matter what their background and all of them would have trialled on them first.    Just because a horse can jump. it doesn't mean they can jump over anything or want to.  Hurdles and Steeples are quite different to a horse running towards them if they are not used to what is over the other side.   We could see that half way through the race when he was jumping high.. he wasn't sure.. so no, I don't think that we can bank on a novice jumper that was brilliant at hurdles, being brilliant at jumping.. not to start with anyway.. maybe next start he'll be more sure of himself as there will be more work done in preparing him.. and what if that happens.. everyone will have a field day again.. poking a stick saying ahhh it was a set up after all, which will undoubtedly make many happy.   The interesting thing will be how many people risk not backing him

Chestnut he was jumping high from the first fence. I just find it impossible to believe he jumped steeple fences in any satisfactory way before today's race.

[pete 492]

Last word on this because I'm starting to bore myself.

Whatever you all say this is NOT a good look for racing. At the very least a horse should have some competency in it's assigned role before it is allowed to run in a feature race. How would it have looked if he had broken a leg when jumping like that?

Secondly, jockeys should have a certain level of competency as well. The ride on Arose was a bloody shocker.

Rant over and out...

[scooby3051 10,873]

Guys enough of this BS as well... this is not a trainer bashing site... so either prove what you say or don't say it... my house my rules...cheers.

[Gruff 2,793]

The fact Myers had such a great reputation with jumpers was the reason mahanadi was so short,punters assumed he wouldn't be in otherwise,I assume?

[rdytdy 5,341]

I agree with Kakama, some of the comments on here about Dummy are over the top.

I did not have a bet in the race other than to put Mahanadi and Bally Heights in as my place 6 runners and came in to watch the race and see Mahanadi put in an inglorious display of jumping which is unusual for a Myers runner.

Some are now saying he shouldn't have been favourite and mug punters made him that but that's a bit rich post race. Pre race he deserved to be favourite and it wasn't just mug punters that thought he could win. Have a look at all the selections in papers, TAB, TV etc and he was a clear first choice for most of the analysts.

Why?

He had won 8 of his 22 starts including three of four over the hurdles with an easy win by six lengths in the Grand National Hurdles last August with a great display of jumping. In November he ran 4th in the NZ Cup, three lengths behind Spring Cheer. He came into the race today on the minimum weight after some very good flat runs. Fresh up over 2050m he was unplaced and then lined up in a 2000m jumpers trial which he won. He then ran third in a R85 race behind Willy Duggan and last start won a $40k open handicap over 2500m after sitting handy and going to the front at the 600m. Compared to the others in the race this was terrific form. Add in the fact he comes from the Myers stable renowned for producing competent jumpers and it was no surprise to anyone he started favourite today. Whether $1.90 was justified is debatable. Rioch won the race for Kevin last year and he was able to switch between hurdles and steeples successfully so to see Mahanadi's jumping display today was indeed a shock for many.

What rubbed salt into the wound of many was the fact that the stable mate won after two poor runs in in his last two steeplechases. Going into the race Palemo had won 3 from 31 and the highest grade he got to was R75 where he placed third. He had run unplaced in three hurdle appearances and had six steeplechases for a maiden win and a second. Two steeplechases ago he was pulled up at Riccarton and last week he finished 37 lengths behind Bally Heights.

Therefore one can understand why punters are a wee bit peeved.

So questions needed to be asked which they did re Mahanadi although it wasn't as thorough as I would have thought from reading the stipes report. ie no question as to how he jumped the fences the day before etc. There was no questions at all on the improved perfomance of the winner either which there should have been.

Still,there was some good racing there today, we saw a top class horse in Allez Eagle win impressively again and wasn't it great to see Troy Harris gain his second jumping win taking out the Waikato Hurdles on King Piccolo after scoring his first jumps win at Wanganui recently. He ran second on Myths And Legends in the Steeples as well plus had his first fall today also.

The ups and downs of jumping races, for riders and punters alike.

[jess 1,244]

Same old, same old. The stipes ask some pretty basic questions in the room - as they do - and the trainer/stable rep gives her/his veriosn of a reply/explanation.

Usually that's the end of it - whether the questions asked are probing or pathetic - and whether the answers given are plausible or patently foolish!

In this case the rep was Jo Rathbone who, as it happens, in my dealings with her some years back appeared to be an excellent horsewoman and a straight-up sort of person.

Bottom line - if the powers that be have further concerns - and if they REALLY want to find out the truth (there are two "if"s there, folks) they need to take the step of analysing the betting patterns on the race. IF there's a story to be told, I suggest that's where it might reveal itself ....

[fermoy 226]

Same old, same old. The stipes ask some pretty basic questions in the room - as they do - and the trainer/stable rep gives her/his veriosn of a reply/explanation.

Usually that's the end of it - whether the questions asked are probing or pathetic - and whether the answers given are plausible or patently foolish!

In this case the rep was Jo Rathbone who, as it happens, in my dealings with her some years back appeared to be an excellent horsewoman and a straight-up sort of person.

Bottom line - if the powers that be have further concerns - and if they REALLY want to find out the truth (there are two "if"s there, folks) they need to take the step of analysing the betting patterns on the race. IF there's a story to be told, I suggest that's where it might reveal itself ....

What a pack of moaning whinging losers you lot are.!!!!!

And what is analysing the betting going to achieve jessie????

Just because a trainer has a horse who is hot favourite in a race and another who is an outsider are you suggesting he must follow all the sheep and only back the favourite????What if he thought it was far too short considering it had not been tested on raceday over steeples,and what if he knew from track work midweek that the roughy had improved out of sight since its last run????

We know where your stirring allegiances lie from previous posts and you have every right to be worried because the genius has the premiership in his sights.Stop spitting the Dummy.hahahaha.

[Centrofold 147]

You should be asking yourselves why was the horse the favourite when it was up against far more accomplished jumpers.  Secondly, he cleared the jumps, he didn't plough through them like a lazy jumper and he didn't drop the jockey.  It is not the first time a trainer's less favoured horse has won a race.   As you say Kevin must be laughing at some punters.

[rdytdy 5,341]

You should be asking yourselves why was the horse the favourite when it was up against far more accomplished jumpers.  Secondly, he cleared the jumps, he didn't plough through them like a lazy jumper and he didn't drop the jockey.

Sometimes I wonder about you people.  It is not the first time a trainer's less favoured horse has won a race.   As you say Kevin must be laughing at how dumb some punters are.