Who's off to the mixed sale?

[Small Change 0]

I definitely am. I'll be having a look @ some fillies & broodmares. We lost our mare folaing this season so need to replace her to get our live foal guarantee. Hopefully we can pick up something already in foal and thus not lose another year.

Does anyone have thoughts re Waikato unreserved sale? Don't have unlimited funds!

[Theysay 0]

on the Pencarrow draft personally.

[kmhood 1]

Sometimes one can get lucky - at sales there are always bargains to be had. It is also a meeting and greeting ground - just love the sales.

[jess 1,244]

I have doubts about these non-reserved sales. Is there really no reserve? These lots still seem to get their fair share of passings - but I'm sure sceptics like me would be told that's because the only bids received were those of the auctioneer....

But hang on - if there is no reserve - what price does the auctioneer bid up to, in an effort to kick start things??

Happy to be enlightened by someone more knowing and less cynical than I ....

[nod 1]

I have doubts about these non-reserved sales. Is there really no reserve? These lots still seem to get their fair share of passings - but I'm sure sceptics like me would be told that's because the only bids received were those of the auctioneer....

But hang on - if there is no reserve - what price does the auctioneer bid up to, in an effort to kick start things??

Happy to be enlightened by someone more knowing and less cynical than I ....

You can be confidant that the Karaka ones [like Waikato] are dinkum unreserved sales.

The Aussies made a blue recently but that may have been a genuine error.

Any lot that attracts no bid would by necessity be 'passed in'.

[jess 1,244]

Hi Nod - well it would be nice to know that was true. I have in the past seen lots from such sales tho, which are passed in at a certain price - where does that price come from, if you see what I mean, if there was no reserve? I would have thought that either it would get passed in for zero (ie no bids) or sold (maybe to the dog tucker man) for $50. ????

I can't help thinking it is a marketing ploy and there is some sort of safety net or invisible reserve at play ...how do you know it's not the case?

Cheers

J

[nod 1]

Jess, I have never ever heard or seen such a happening in NZ -I believe confusion may arise when you see a big stud declaring theirs are all to be sold unreserved and that is truly the case.

However, under the same studs consignor banner there will also be clients horses they are selling 'as agents' .

These horses are most likely to actually have a reserve price.

When the results of the sale are tabulated they merely state the consignor i e XYZ STUD and they do not state whether the particular lot was an unreserved XYZ stud one or one for which they were merely the consignor as agent for a client.

If you check the results against the catalogue page you will see the questionable lot listed [as agents].

I hope that restores your faith

[jess 1,244]

Thanks for taking the trouble with yr reply Nod.

I guess I am a little jaded about the smoke and mirrors you see at sales. The thing that really gets me is all the huge prices at the yearling sales which turn out to be buy-backs - and then the stud/s in question have the audacity to use the false prices the stock fetched in marketing their operation and the future progeny of various horses.

Certain parties are named as purchasers at the time - it's only later when you look into it that you see that barring a quick trip to Karaka - the horses never really left home or changed ownership.

I find that a little too close to fraud for my liking. And if you find that too strong - at best - it's a long way short of transparent and is certainly disingenuous.

I know this technique is feathering some ppl's nests but I would take no pride in doing business that way.

[grossly misinformed 0]

Thanks for taking the trouble with yr reply Nod.

I guess I am a little jaded about the smoke and mirrors you see at sales. The thing that really gets me is all the huge prices at the yearling sales which turn out to be buy-backs - and then the stud/s in question have the audacity to use the false prices the stock fetched in marketing their operation and the future progeny of various horses.

Certain parties are named as purchasers at the time - it's only later when you look into it that you see that barring a quick trip to Karaka - the horses never really left home or changed ownership.

I find that a little too close to fraud for my liking. And if you find that too strong - at best - it's a long way short of transparent and is certainly disingenuous.

I know this technique is feathering some ppl's nests but I would take no pride in doing business that way.

I agree Jess, It happens all too often, I don't think NZB will ever care when they are getting 10% commission and bolstered sales averages, everyone wins! (except the lesser prolific vendors/breeders who have to do things legitimately).

[Pam 1]

Totally agree Jess.

You later see a lot of the so called top priced lots racing with the vendor still in the ownership.The honest, small breeder hasn't got a show, and certainly not many get any help from NZ Bloodstock.

[jess 1,244]

Yes you are both right. The stud/s that do it are just laughing. They probably happily pay the commission to NZB and look on that as a relatively cheap ad campaign - promoting their stallion/s and mare/s and increasing the profile of their operation as a whole.

It's got to a stage that one stud I know of - I just laugh when I see their sales results. How much do those prices say nothing about the quality of the horses they have bred?

You can decide.

It's especially obvious when you see the tv sales coverage for their stock - cos the same old suspects are doing the bidding! The camera operators know who to zoom in on even before the first bid is made.

[grossly misinformed 0]

What do we do though?, sell horses privately?, sell them on Gavel House?. I dont want to pay good money to put a yearling through the sales this year and pay 10% commission and be harassed for a scope grading every 5 minutes but what do you do, there aren't many options and Im getting more bitter by the week. Pinhook they say, buy a weanling that is being run up, tick it up on NZB finance, pay 17% interest on the principle plus gst, then give them back 10% at fall of hammer, add onto that cost of a dusty, diseased box with no hay or grass in K3(where most small independent or small scale vendors end up) and then be shunned because you don't want to divulge the grade of the scope, even though it is a pass. If NZB had some competition they wouldn't get away with half of what they do.

[David L 0]

There does seem to be a good selection of mares and my advice would be to talk to the vendors re the reasons that particular mare is up for sale. Most will be truthful hopefully!

I would definitely look at Pencarrow draft for mares as zzzn Casey has been helpful to me in the past with advice and they do have great bloodlines. Another good family that has a young mare there is lot 554. I'm not sure who is selling her but a family that leaves good horses and depending on what stallion your foal return is, then a compatable pedigree is obviously a consideration too. I haven't ever seen this mare so you would need to check confirmation, size etc.

If you are able to look at a weanling filly that you could race, with a broodmare future later in life, have a look at Lot 283 that is going thru at a bad time for the vendors, after 6:30 p.m. on the first day. The second dam is a full sister to Danehill Dancer, one of the best stallions in both hemispheres and a lot of upside closer in too with several siblings by Encosta De Lago. An international pedigree and the dam made over 100K as ylg I think.

Good luck

[Barmer 0]

Well good news for the weanling filly buyers - some nice well related fillies practically given away although colts were hard to buy. There seems to be a huge imbalance this year - lots of studs reporting that they had mostly fillies on the ground. Time for NZTR to introduce greater incentives to encourage people to race fillies.

[Dopey 214]

Good fillies still sold well...especially if they were by sires in demand...

[Bretto 0]

Lot 446, the filly by Perfectly Ready was a great result.

[David L 0]

Let alone agistment fee's for the mare for 12 months then the combined agistment for them both to sales time, vet fee's, entry fee's, floats, insurance, commission etc. Be interesting if someone had the time to do the stats, but I'd suggest lucky to be 10% of them?

Cheers

[Dopey 214]

Lot 446, the filly by Perfectly Ready was a great result.

So was lot 23, a loverly strong classy filly by Any Suggestion

[Henri Jooste 40]

David L wrote.....

Another good family that has a young mare there is lot 554. I'm not sure who is selling her but a family that leaves good horses and depending on what stallion your foal return is, then a compatable pedigree is obviously a consideration too. I haven't ever seen this mare so you would need to check confirmation, size etc.

David L - thought that you may like to know that you were not the only one to spot lot 554 as a likely broodmare prospect. As you stated she was a young mare from a good family. The attraction too was her sire Chief Bearhart who was a great racehorse. The plan is to have this mare served by Indy King this year. We were hoping that your pointing her out would not draw too much attention to her ringside !

[Breeder 608]

Henri -- I see you picked another bargin in Lot 662. On paper her matings with Thorn Park are great so I hope one of them does the business for you (NB. I think Donna Logan got the 2008 foal at the sales.) I think she has the right breeding to be a success as a broadmare. Good luck !

[kmhood 1]

Well good news for the weanling filly buyers - some nice well related fillies practically given away although colts were hard to buy. There seems to be a huge imbalance this year - lots of studs reporting that they had mostly fillies on the ground. Time for NZTR to introduce greater incentives to encourage people to race fillies.

What would it take to make this a reality - black type is essential to have on a foals page. Should a petition to NZ Racing be started - would anyone there listen. There should be an over abundance of fillies to race in a couple of years, going by the huge number born in 2009. Most studs seem to have few colts in comparison. The ball needs to get rolling now for 2 years down the track.

[Dibbles 65]

I agree Kay there has to be something done now or we will just see more people give up breeding with the fear of getting a filly. I do not see offering filly deals as a way of solving the problem even though it is a nice gesture and I know this has been discussed before but I would really like to see the studs that are doing this to put the money into sponsoring filly races as I still feel that they are only devaluing a filly with these refund or free return deals. Why can we not have the same respect for fillies as they do overseas?

[bazzag 0]

NZ has become a rearing farm for the rest of the world to suck the cream off the top of our foal crop.

It is a sad fact of life that we can not compete with stakes on offer in Hong Kong, Singapore etc, and they just dont want fillies up there.

Most NZ owners would be hoping for some early trial form and subsequent sale for their young colts and geldings as well because racing anything in NZ is becoming less and less viable.

I wonder, how many of the 463 weanlings sold at this weeks sale will make it to the track in NZ.

[nod 1]

The simple answer Bazzag

Introduce AI and semen sexing -

[Dopey 214]

Nod, I agree. Either that or a filly price as senn from some enlightned market meeters.

AI would certainly make it easier for the mare and foal. Often young foals are sent off to stud when they are weak (legs can suffer as a consequence during this early developmenttal time) therefore there would be a wastage saving as well.