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Abernant

Indy King first winner

106 posts in this topic

Indy king had 3 starters in usa over the last 4 days and all won including stakes winner Queen Lilly Kay and one starter in seoul for a winner taking his progeny earnings over $6,000,000 from 105 starters.

But no up dates on dalacine farms web site and this is not the only stud web site that  stays the same.

In these testing times promoting sires and racing should be a must. i have a indy king filly and others by different sires and like to be kept upto date from the studs

I too have tried to match up mares on Dalacine Farm website to no avail as not working.  Did advise Grant and he should be aware that most of the studs which have stud matching services are kept up to date - a very useful tool when choosing a stallion.  Up to date websites are essential if one wants to keep an edge.  Doesn't matter what programme you have - Goldmine, Tesio or Nicks - all serve their purpose and help

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05/06/2014

I Am the King (USA) 2006

(C. by Indy King-Star of the Ball)

1st Penn National Claiming, US$19000 1650m earning US$11400

06/06/2014

Queen Lilly Kay (USA) 2009

(F. by Indy King-Lilly Cozzene)

1st Prairie Meadows Hawkeyes H. L, US$82875 1700m earning US$49725

07/06/2014

Mary n' Eileen (USA) 2011

(F. by Indy King-Apleasantnight)

1st Monmouth Allowance Optional Claiming, US$39340 1650m earning US$23940

08/06/2014

Dangsan Daehyeop (USA) 2011

(G. by Indy King-Miss Daisy)

1st Seoul Foreign class F4, K$50000000 1200m earning K$27500000

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Dalacine Farm reports that there are no current problems with it's Goldmine test mating system, there was a temporary hitch a few weeks ago, this was rectified straight away. The site no longer has an active Tesio Power link, Goldmine is the active link. 

 

For anyone interested INDY KING  may have another future Stakes winner from his last USA crop of just 17 foals. His daughter Mary n' Eileen has made quite an impression since her debut in March when she ran fourth. Mary n" Eileen then romped home at her second start over 1700m and last week stepped up to Allowance level (1650m) and reeled off a commanding win, taking up he running soon after the start and cruised home,

7ZdMZEn.png

Mary n' Eileen

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The photo of Mary n' Eileen looks a lot like her sire.  Indy King stats of runners to winners and stakes races must be reasonably high.

Henri - it is great to have a discussion on this site that is informative and interesting - had hoped the knockers and nasty ones had disappeared.  They have no place in this thread.  Everyone has a favourite theory and intelligent people respect others opinions and can always learn from them.  Breeding is not an exact science with so many genes flying around.  Just look at a family of 6 children - not all are alike or even look alike - traits are there but all are different in so many ways.

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How many nz/aus starters, and how many have been to trials?

Any coming soon in pipeline?

Forrest INDY KING has  had just one to the races in NZ and that is the Jono Brenner trained King's Secret who won over 800m. There are a number of INDY KING progeny in training in the Central Districts who should get tho the races as early 3 year olds, reports have been really positive and some trainers have been to Dalacine Farm to get another which must be a good sign - one would think ! I have a filly that is ready to go into full training in July, she is a half sister to a stakes winner in Australia.

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Dalacine Farm reports that there are no current problems with it's Goldmine test mating system, there was a temporary hitch a few weeks ago, this was rectified straight away. The site no longer has an active Tesio Power link, Goldmine is the active link. 

 

For anyone interested INDY KING  may have another future Stakes winner from his last USA crop of just 17 foals. His daughter Mary n' Eileen has made quite an impression since her debut in March when she ran fourth. Mary n" Eileen then romped home at her second start over 1700m and last week stepped up to Allowance level (1650m) and reeled off a commanding win, taking up he running soon after the start and cruised home,

7ZdMZEn.png

Mary n' Eileen

Is there a reason why he had only 17 in his last USA crop ?

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If he can get a few more winners and a stakes horse or two he may be able to get his serving numbers in NZ up a bit,

ZED style.

One winner from 1 starter is about as good as it gets though for hs NZ stallion career.

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Is there a reason why he had only 17 in his last USA crop ?

Crusty that is a good question, the answer adds to the background in securing this good stallion. Originally purchased by Frank Stronach for US$2.2 M based on his outstanding looks and physique as well as his royal parentage , both his parents were champions and were recognised as such as by being awarded Eclipse Awards for their achievements on the track. Frank Stronach owns the Adena Springs operation in the North America which has been the leading stud in the USA over the past decade spearheaded by Adena Kentucky, Adena Canada and Adena Maryland. Adena expanded it's operation to Florida and after showing genuine ability before injuring himself Stronach retired Indy King to his newly founded Florida operation. When the GFC hit Frank Stronach decided to shut down the Florida operation and an number of the stallions were sold including Indy King. Fortunately Indy King had just served a few seasons and his first runners were 3 year olds at the time and his ability as a sire was not exposed otherwise there is no way that he would have reached these shores.

 

Indy King was relocated to Indiana under lease for the 2010 season before his departure to NZ. Richwine Stud knowing that Indy King was destined for New Zealand did not aggressively promote him and he served only 19 mares which was by Indiana State standards a reasonable number to serve.

 

Indy King reminds one of two other impeccably bred unraced bred stallions that thrived in New Zealand, namely Noble Bijou and Mellay. His task is even more difficult here because he is on a farm that has no commercial pretensions, had this stallion stood elsewhere in NZ is service fee would have been considerably higher.

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Forrest INDY KING has  had just one to the races in NZ and that is the Jono Brenner trained King's Secret who won over 800m. There are a number of INDY KING progeny in training in the Central Districts who should get tho the races as early 3 year olds, reports have been really positive and some trainers have been to Dalacine Farm to get another which must be a good sign - one would think ! I have a filly that is ready to go into full training in July, she is a half sister to a stakes winner in Australia.

Is Helsman still standing ?

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Had a inquiry from a fellow forum member looking for a match for their mare. I had a quick look at it and Indy King looks good to me on paper.

 

I love the mirror image of Mr Prospector in the middle and the position of Sir Gaylord on the 3rd dams male line and as brood-mare sire in A.P.Indy.  Double there also of Somethingroyal.  (nice mirror image)

 

This mare is a bit of a handful at times so they are looking for a stallion with good temperament and a bit of speed. Pedigree below of the planned mating. Appreciate your thoughts. 

 

post-8706-0-06058100-1404615075_thumb.pn

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That's an interesting choice Swynford.

By a stallion who was unsound (At $2.2m Stronach had to do something with him - who is out of a mare who couldn't get warm until she was five), out of a mare by Almutawakel out of a Centro (slow horses) daughter of Limitless (Brisbane Cup winner) who was by Sir Tristram out of a Zamazaan mare.

Shame New Zealand doesn't have a good staying race pattern program anymore. Do we add this offspring into your selection bag?

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  berri..... You the 30 % man.    We should be learning from you.  I'm only 20% remember so I understand you shooting me down.  Both of us well above national average of somewhere around 5%. .so either way both of us helpful.

 

You seem to have so much knowledge and everyone else is putting their b%lls on the line, but are you ?.  So please share some of your secrets with the forum.  Or are you just a ???   How would you mate this mare and WHY.  And can we put it the wall and look at it in the years to come. We all experts and learning from each other, and we are on this site to do that.

 

 

ps. I mated this mare after looking at pedigrees like the one below

 

post-8706-0-07681500-1404625546_thumb.pn

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I really like the mating with Pour Moi. I think despite what Berri has to say this mare has what it takes to leave a top class race horse just like her slow Centro mother did. Dam of multiple Group One winner  Veyron, winner of approx $1 million

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 Thanks Hummels,

 

.....yes it's easier to sit on the rails and be negative.  Good female families are worth more than just the individual .  I still like the mating with Indy on paper.  But there are others. I tried to create a mirror image.  My experience and intuition tells me that this pattern creates something in a horse that other people can't see. love this pedigree below. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1zhkL92ZAQ

post-8706-0-42739200-1404715735_thumb.pn

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Swynford....Which mare are you asking me to suggest a mating for? I'm lost. As for me, I'm not a breeder because I'm a buyer of the horse not the breeding lottery ticket. I've spent time with some of the most recognised breed advisors (the likes of John Aiscan, Romenet, Richardson). I've looked into the genome project (Emiline Hill) and played with just about everything possible....with some mates, as an owner, I've won a Melbourne Cup, a Great Northern Steeplechase (still my biggest win in my mind) and a number of other group one winners. I've helped with stallion and mare selections for others who have bred group one winners out of them. The stallions have become champion sires although one out of 5 was a dud.

So I'm not sure what else you want to know. I just laid down a challenge....give me three pedigrees of yearlings that you think will make it based on pedigree. In respect of a Centro mare producing a good horse, this has happened before but generally speaking Centro mares haven't brought the house down. And as for Veyron, he is by Thorn Park out of that Centro mare. He's by a champion miler from a Bluebird mare (sprinter) from a Bletchingly mare (sprinter) from a Showdown mare (champion sire of 2yo's). That's seriously different from being crossed by an AP Indy (generally stayers and tend to take a bit of time) out of a late maturing mare, and then throwing Almutawakel over the top of that before you get to the Centro mare. You've got to think about the probability as to what may be produced. All I have asked is this one of your selections and I thought it was a strange mating because of the type of horse that could potentially be produced (late maturing stayer). I am challenging you because I'm challenging your thought. I'm after the type and I want to see if you can actually achieve what you are saying you are achieving...quite simple really

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I just had a look at Indy Kings progeny results he has had,106 winners and 45 of them have won  1001-1200m races and out of the 305 wins 112 of them are 1001-1200m races surely that seems to say he leaves sprinters.

As a breeder with one mare i like both point of view. from Berri, and Swynford but if the were no one doing (the breeding lottery ticket) there would be probably be only a dozen stallions at most in New Zealand used by commercial studs.

Trying to find a breeding nick keeps us trying to dream we can breed a champion.

Maybe we should give up breeding and just buy from the sales, that sounds the cheapest and easy way to go?.

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Comments by Oppenheimer in 2010.....

Pleasant Prince (Indy King) and Ice Box both made strong late rallies in the Florida Derby and only a nose separated them at the finish. Both have the look of late-maturing runners so typical for the A.P. Indys. Pleasant Prince to date has won only 1 race from 7 starts, though he is now G1-placed and Derby bound. He did win a one-mile maiden special at 2 last year, and this year he’s been raced exclusively at 1 1/8 miles and has the racing style, pedigree, and feel of a stayer.

He’s out of the Pleasant Tap mare Archduchess and was bred by Adena Springs, which consigned him to the 2008 OBS August sale where his current owners, Ken and Sarah Ramsey, purchased him for $30,000.

Career Statistics:

•Starts: 29

•Firsts: 5

•Seconds: 4

•Thirds: 4

•Earnings: $696,483

This is probably Indy King's best progeny based on ratings

Analysis by Crop in all countries

Crop Foals Starters Winners Wins SW

2005 24 18 15 39 1

2006 40 28 20 68 1

2007 42 20 7 13 0

2008 18 0 0 0 0

124 66 42 120 2

% of foals 53% 34% 2%

Sorry boys...I don't see it. It doesn't matter how small a breeder you are, there are ways of helping your odds and this probably isn't one of them. That's not to say that this horse won't produce a good one...just that the odds are against you and you've got to know what type you're about to breed. That's why I challenge the likes of Swynford. If he was that good, he'd be a top breeder. In my humble opinion, his read of the suggested mating produces a late maturing stayer....but you've always got to remember, genetics say that the horse comes from the dominant gene....so any mating COULD throw to a fast maturing Mr Prospector gene....but the odds are not stacked in your favour of that happening. If he was a short coupled sprinting type then I'd say your chances are better....but he's not....knee half way down his leg, staying type (typical AP Indy)

Still waiting for your selections Swynford....

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so a ZED then? he the only A P Indy line sire in NZ? i think and sons of A P Indy lead the american sires list  and 3 of them in first 10, i am not defending him, i just hope you are wrong berri as i have a 2yo filly in work by Indy King whos looking good, just hope i dont have to wait until its 4 to show something.

I  have a weanling by Mettre en jeu that i expect will be a late maturing filly, mare,?

 My first choice stallion would have been Darci Braham but stud prices miles appart, thats why in the long run its easy to buy one ready to go so why do we carry on breeding ?? were mad yes?

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