von Smallhaussen 3,226 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 All i ever Do is to foster kindly communion around here and in the "MainSt.,Cafe"..and it's just taken for granted like a piece of toilet paper., you just wipe your privileged ar$e with me. i conduct myself exactly as i do in the community or among any company or grouping..or my neighbours and all i get is typical Kiwi usary. [although my neighbours, friends and family Never do] I'm with you brother ! hedley, porky and elbow 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Smallhaussen 3,226 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 No more freeview - then all we get is elbow 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portfolio 728 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 ..if you drop the turnovers by 20%..the industry implodes, simple as that. Pokies are the only thing preventing that Now! can someone tell me what the 'upfront' costs of SKY are..and the monthly subscription thereafter please. signed, a 'moaner'. [i moan on the non moaners behalf..seeking rectification of a piss poorly run industry, whom receive all the benefits you're too furtive and meek to 'Moan' for ] Sorry Hedley me old mate...... I didnt mean turnovers drop by 20%. I dont know of anybody I know that is serious about sports/ horses that does not have sky. I would say if they dropped freeview , maybe 20% would be without trackside. But I reckon the TAB know what those people spend each week at the TAB, they would loose bugger all from these punters. From what I gather , the same people on here complain about the same things, cant get a $2 bet on phone bet, moan about the FREE trackside coverage they recieve, price of drinks on course, price to get on course.....blah blah blah. Those that moan the most on here dont even bet ??? So yep, for me , too bad, pay for it. Now as for your question regarding price for sky Hedley, we have sky in 2 rooms, with movies, sports etc. Part of this deal is with Telecom. We pay about Telecom about $100 per month for basic sky, home phone and internet. Then sky bill us $70 odd dollars for sports, movies and extra sky. So maybe $120 per month, I think it is good value, family of 4 all have their turn...Me the most! elbow 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,007 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 Portfolio, I'm not sure how you get $100 a month plus $70 a month to come to $120 a month. The issue here I think, and I don't know if it's even an issue, is at the moment to get Trackside and Tab TV on SKY, one has to pay for a whole lot of other sky stuff that some of us don't use or want. Hedley's point I think, is that if Trackside is only available on Sky, it may need to be available without requiring subscribers to also buy a host of SKY products they don't want. So if Trackside becomes available on Sky only, that's fine with me if it's say $10-20 a month. If I can only get it by paying for a host of SKY stuff I never watch and probably never will have time to, then I'm going to think twice about that. As I say, I'm not sure if that's the intention, but if Trackside access is tied to a subscription to a bunch of services that I don't want and would never watch as it is now on SKY then we have a problem. Not that I bet on NZ Racing anyway. I still like to watch from time to time. hedley 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecithin 429 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 Portfolio, I'm not sure how you get $100 a month plus $70 a month to come to $120 a month. The issue here I think, and I don't know if it's even an issue, is at the moment to get Trackside and Tab TV on SKY, one has to pay for a whole lot of other sky stuff that some of us don't use or want. Hedley's point I think, is that if Trackside is only available on Sky, it may need to be available without requiring subscribers to also buy a host of SKY products they don't want. So if Trackside becomes available on Sky only, that's fine with me if it's say $10-20 a month. If I can only get it by paying for a host of SKY stuff I never watch and probably never will have time to, then I'm going to think twice about that. As I say, I'm not sure if that's the intention, but if Trackside access is tied to a subscription to a bunch of services that I don't want and would never watch as it is now on SKY then we have a problem. Not that I bet on NZ Racing anyway. I still like to watch from time to time. In general I agree that if it's available as a standalone package on Sky for $10 or so a month there should be no issue as if people can't afford that, they shouldn't really be betting anyway. The issue I see is that if they are trying to branch out to the wider gambling public with products like the Triple Trio, that would be more difficult if there is no Freeview coverage as it's unlikely the 'lotto and pokie' players they are trying to target would want to pay for the channel - they would rather tip their last $10 into the pokies every month - so it's much less likely to get their interest. Aaron Bidlake 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puha 2,177 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 All people I know that bet also have sky.Hopefully Sky can come up with a decent Sports/Trackside package instead of all the other rubbish we have to pay for which no one watches. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
porky 900 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 I,ll just watch freeview trackside and save the $46.92 a month thanks Portfolio Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GONSTA 1,148 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 I agree most of the big punters in NZ, but to counter that I believe most big punters in NZ don't bet with the NZ tab at all. Why would they? The TAB prove with the options they provide on sports and the extreme takeout rates they are more interested in attracting the mug punter that's going to chuck on some dreamer multis, a few first try scorer bets and your typical 'next race' punter that will bet on anything from the Tasmanian greyhounds, forbury park harness and Wodonga thoroughbreds! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portfolio 728 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 Portfolio, I'm not sure how you get $100 a month plus $70 a month to come to $120 a month. The issue here I think, and I don't know if it's even an issue, is at the moment to get Trackside and Tab TV on SKY, one has to pay for a whole lot of other sky stuff that some of us don't use or want. Hedley's point I think, is that if Trackside is only available on Sky, it may need to be available without requiring subscribers to also buy a host of SKY products they don't want. So if Trackside becomes available on Sky only, that's fine with me if it's say $10-20 a month. If I can only get it by paying for a host of SKY stuff I never watch and probably never will have time to, then I'm going to think twice about that. As I say, I'm not sure if that's the intention, but if Trackside access is tied to a subscription to a bunch of services that I don't want and would never watch as it is now on SKY then we have a problem. Not that I bet on NZ Racing anyway. I still like to watch from time to time. Leggy...You should have read my reply better. I pay about $100 each month to Telecom, this covers 1 x basic sky,internet,mobile calls and home line. Then sky charges me about $70 per month for extra sport/ movies to add to the telecom sky deal, and also the same sky set up in another room. So sky costs about $100- $120 per month, rest is for phone, internet etc. And your classic comment....Not that I bet on NZ racing anyway, but I still like watching from time to time?? You are the people they are targeting, always have something to gripe about, want to watch trackside for nothing and dont even bet!!! I hope they make you pay for it soon.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedley 1,900 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 Thanks for your effort Hesi..but i couldn't make head nor tail of all that guff,. SKY understands it as does those within who designed the advert, but it was just a mind boggling dazzle to me. i've heard many people cite SKY as being ignorant and tough nosed..their way or the highway bunch, and don't respond to e-mails when in dispute etc. i want Nothing to do with arrogant corporates like them and that thanks, but i can understand our Racing corporates finding them appealing. it's not a matter of.."if you can't afford $20 or $40 a month then you probabley shouldn't be betting" at All. Some of us live in great sacrifice to make ends meet..and we've been long time followers of N.Z.Racings..and very loyal in the face of incremental assaults by the chronology of executives., each time taking away from us..or imposing yet more hinderence to our endevours. ..i'm absolutely furious about this latest prevention..and the worst aspect is all the tacit support it's receiving., you no longer understand the united we stand, divided we fall tenancy. ..you're just not N.Z. anymore. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
porky 900 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 I agree with you Reilly and Portfolio, I,m only a small casual Saturday arvo punter...and Ive said it before,and others have pointed out on this site, if I was to make a concerted effort and use a system to "beat the odds" the TAB would label you a professional punter and close your a/c. My $50-100 a week punting money hardly justifies $46.92 a month for sky...I,m happy with free to air track-side GONSTA 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portfolio 728 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 I,ll just watch freeview trackside and save the $46.92 a month thanks Portfolio Thats fine Porky, you sound like you know the amount for basic sky, $46 sounds about right. I still have not seen anything that states trackside is not going to be shown on freeview. But at the same time, it does make sense to pay for it. We pay to view most other sport, rugby, boxing, league, football......we can bet on them all. So why not trackside? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecithin 429 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 I agree with you Reilly and Portfolio, I,m only a small casual Saturday arvo punter...and Ive said it before,and others have pointed out on this site, if I was to make a concerted effort and use a system to "beat the odds" the TAB would label you a professional punter and close your a/c. My $50-100 a week punting money hardly justifies $46.92 a month for sky...I,m happy with free to air track-side Yeah but nothing is "free" - in effect you and the other small punters who bet with the TAB are subsidising (through higher take-out rates) larger punters, punters who get rebates and punters who place all their bets offshore and never bet with the TAB but get free coverage ..... is that fair?? hedley 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portfolio 728 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 I agree with you Reilly and Portfolio, I,m only a small casual Saturday arvo punter...and Ive said it before,and others have pointed out on this site, if I was to make a concerted effort and use a system to "beat the odds" the TAB would label you a professional punter and close your a/c. My $50-100 a week punting money hardly justifies $46.92 a month for sky...I,m happy with free to air track-side Porky, compared to many on this site, your bets each week are going some way to paying for trackside. The problem I have with some on here, like Leggy, is that they dont even bet with the TAB, then complain about it, or complain that they have to pay for it. Maybe a fair way would be if the TAB could give account holders discounted (or free trackside) if they bet over a specific amount each month in their TAB accounts. Anyone that does not bet, either pay, miss out, wobble down to the local pub/TAB or listen to the radio like they used to years ago, or watch on the TAB internet trackside feed. Many options really Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
porky 900 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 Yeah but nothing is "free" - in effect you and the other small punters who bet with the TAB are subsidising (through higher take-out rates) larger punters, punters who get rebates and punters who place all their bets offshore and never bet with the TAB but get free coverage ..... is that fair?? Yeah I do get your point there, and I,m not a fan of rebates...could be better spent elsewhere but Larger punters are risking and funding the industry more so deserve a bigger collect I suppose. (or don,t I get it?) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,007 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 You are the people they are targeting, always have something to gripe about, want to watch trackside for nothing and dont even bet!!! I hope they make you pay for it soon.... Fair enough Portfolio, but no thanks.. I'd rather bet in other jurisdictions that have competitive fields, consistent surfaces, vigilant integrity etc. and cost a lot less to watch. Sadly my punting loyalty to NZ product has long gone and the odd race I might have watched live, I'll just have to watch the replays online I guess, if this thread is correct. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
porky 900 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 Thats fine Porky, you sound like you know the amount for basic sky, $46 sounds about right. I still have not seen anything that states trackside is not going to be shown on freeview. But at the same time, it does make sense to pay for it. We pay to view most other sport, rugby, boxing, league, football......we can bet on them all. So why not trackside? Mate come All Black Games or NPC games Or any other sport for that matter I want to watch live I take the lad to the game,go to the Pub / club or watch it delayed on prime. Whilst we have free-view racing and half the country watches it and operates the way I do the NZRB would be well advised to keep it as it is I reckon. Maybe a fair way would be if the TAB could give account holders discounted (or free trackside) if they bet over a specific amount each month in their TAB accounts. Anyone that does not bet, either pay, miss out, wobble down to the local pub/TAB or listen to the radio like they used to years ago, or watch on the TAB internet trackside feed. Many options really Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lecithin 429 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 Mate come All Black Games or NPC games Or any other sport for that matter I want to watch live I take the lad to the game,go to the Pub / club or watch it delayed on prime. Whilst we have free-view racing and half the country watches it and operates the way I do the NZRB would be well advised to keep it as it is I reckon. Maybe a fair way would be if the TAB could give account holders discounted (or free trackside) if they bet over a specific amount each month in their TAB accounts. Anyone that does not bet, either pay, miss out, wobble down to the local pub/TAB or listen to the radio like they used to years ago, or watch on the TAB internet trackside feed. Many options really Good idea - just like some Australian bookies that offer loyalty schemes where you earn points for every dollar you bet and can redeem these for rewards (including subscriptions to Sky Racing or whatever their channel is over there). Of course this would require the TAB to actually sort out a loyalty scheme, which should be another priority for them, but I doubt it is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
what a post 811 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 . it's not a matter of.."if you can't afford $20 or $40 a month then you probabley shouldn't be betting" at All. Some of us live in great sacrifice to make ends meet..and we've been long time followers of N.Z.Racings..and very loyal in the face of incremental assaults by the chronology of executives., each time taking away from us..or imposing yet more hinderence to our endevours. .I believe you have perfectly summed up what is wrong about the possibility of pay to view.No consideration is given to the exposure of the product to those who may be future or past customers.Also part of the excitement of racing a horse is having relations,friends,workmates tune in to see how you go. By limiting those who may view your product,horse is simply going to lead to less participation. Some have talked about the small cost of paying for it on sky. They seem to have forgotten the cost of instalation.,over $200 last time we had it done. As for me ,I used to spend a lot of time watching sport,that ended when it became pay to view.Because i no longer am familiar with who is who in the most popular sports then i show little interest in related conversations as i cant relate to the names of those who participate. The only sport i watched at length this year,apart from racing,was the americas cup.Despite having no real interest in yatching i watched it because it was on free to air. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tasman man 11 979 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 I haven't read many of the posts above......personally I have 2 decoders......and I thought 80% of NZ households had Sky but does BLichter's article in SSTimes have any relevance to this debate. It stated that before Xmas 2013 you can watch Trackside live on your computer or mobile device....as long as you have a TAB account. And soon you will be able to lie on a beach in Hawaii and watch the races in NZ. Plus all the form ,direct from your phones. Initially its just the Trackside channel ,but both channels soon. I ain't got a smart-phone myself but Kiwis will never have had it so good....you can sit in Church and watch the first race from Wyndham. Amazing !!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palagi USO 9 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 Thats fine Porky, you sound like you know the amount for basic sky, $46 sounds about right. I still have not seen anything that states trackside is not going to be shown on freeview. But at the same time, it does make sense to pay for it. We pay to view most other sport, rugby, boxing, league, football......we can bet on them all. So why not trackside? Uso won't pay extra $$$$ to see 9 Maiden donkeys go round but is happy to pay extra to see Professional sport persons so that's why USO wouldn't like to see it happen,USO don't think it will happen anytime soon as the tab is loosing punters by the truck loads and this will drive them away even quicker. USO happy to pay fo quality, not a lot of that in Nz racing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palagi USO 9 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 MySky HDI(46.92 plus 15.00) monthly is the best thing since sliced bread, would not be without it. Takes about 10 seconds to set up recording of the afternoon's races, then can come home and watch at your leisure. Really good for people who work during the week, and would like to have a bet, but want to actually watch how their selections fared They got Myfreeveiw now Hesi and guess wat it's free nice!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelseacol 2,488 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 This is all about priorities. Firstly the NZRB need to make sure it has it's priorities right - at a time when turnover on racing is under real pressure - should they be trying to generate revenue via broadcasts which are currently provided free, or should it be trying to make racing accessible to all and grow the customer base (or retain it) ? A similar question of priority arises in respect of phone betting, minimum bets and take out rates btw...! For what it's worth my vote here is that they would be better getting the racing in front of as many people as possible at no cost. Secondly though we come to the punter/those on here who are used to free trackside and don't think they have to pay. Well the newsflash is whether you like it or not the world has moved on. We now pay for all sorts of stuff if we want better service/product - even if in the old days it used to be free or cheaper. Whether or not that is progress depends on your point of view I guess - but it is a fact of life. If you don't like the economic reality I think China and Russia and North Korea have alternative models for you where everything is provided by a benevolent state (or not). For those who don't bet through the NZ TAB - your input is meaningless in this thread. To sum up - I get the argument re NZRB potentially making a mistake if freeview goes - in fact I agree with you. BUT if they do go that route - you still have the pub or tab or a mates house to watch at (or via your tab account over the internet). If you choose not to pay that becomes your decision, and bleating about the old days is not going to change it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 This is all about priorities. Firstly the NZRB need to make sure it has it's priorities right - at a time when turnover on racing is under real pressure - should they be trying to generate revenue via broadcasts which are currently provided free, or should it be trying to make racing accessible to all and grow the customer base (or retain it) ? A similar question of priority arises in respect of phone betting, minimum bets and take out rates btw...! For what it's worth my vote here is that they would be better getting the racing in front of as many people as possible at no cost. Secondly though we come to the punter/those on here who are used to free trackside and don't think they have to pay. Well the newsflash is whether you like it or not the world has moved on. We now pay for all sorts of stuff if we want better service/product - even if in the old days it used to be free or cheaper. Whether or not that is progress depends on your point of view I guess - but it is a fact of life. If you don't like the economic reality I think China and Russia and North Korea have alternative models for you where everything is provided by a benevolent state (or not). For those who don't bet through the NZ TAB - your input is meaningless in this thread. To sum up - I get the argument re NZRB potentially making a mistake if freeview goes - in fact I agree with you. BUT if they do go that route - you still have the pub or tab or a mates house to watch at (or via your tab account over the internet). If you choose not to pay that becomes your decision, and bleating about the old days is not going to change it. Chesacol - you are on a completely wrong tack here. The biggest cost in producing the race broadcasts are the production costs - e.g. remote broadcast units, cameras, film crew, presenters and studio production etc.. By comparison the actual delivery costs are minimal. So they should be using as many delivery mechanisms as they can because the incremental costs are a lot less than the initial production cost. For example internet streaming, TV - free to view and Sky. If you use the standard marketing model - the broadcast is advertising, marketing and and distribution of the product. The price of the product is the takeout that the TAB take when I purchase a bet (the product). OK some people watch the race for free because they don't bet but then they haven't actually bought the product have they? Now this is an interesting group of people - those who watch but don't bet - they are half captured - will they continue to watch if it costs to watch? I doubt it - a smart marketer will be aiming to convert these people into buying the product. Charging to view is akin to not advertising, not marketing and hiding the product in an unlit part of a retail store. So Chesacol likening the free advertising/marketing to some socialist political paradigm is a spurious argument. It isn't free - the purchaser pays via the takeout rate. Effectively by charging to view you are asking the punter to pay more (as I bet the takeout rate will not be reduced) - oh and I bet the VIP punter wont be asked to pay just like they get free drinks in the Casino. NO a better strategy for NZRB/TAB would be to provide more delivery mechanisms for the product without an upfront charge. By doing so they are providing a better product and potentially increasing there customer base - NZTR have a role to play here in providing a product that is worth purchasing - however that is another whole thread in itself. Also saying that the input of someone who bets through other agencies is meaningless is a typical arrogant statement by someone who doesn't understand free markets. The question that should be asked is WHY they are betting elsewhere and then addressing those issues. As for going down to the pub or around to a mates place to watch the races well that is an option but not always a practical one. I can bet from my smart phone so why can't I watch the race from my smart phone? For example someone might be spending the day watching their children's sport - if they knew they could bet and watch from their smart phone without incurring any other charges other than data usage would they be more inclined to have a bet? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedley 1,900 Report post Posted December 17, 2013 my point is that the industry should understand that to sell product by sight..and have the whole business running on eyesight appraisal and involvement., And because of the huge sums of money the industry Generates in it's considerable reticulations, ..Then and therefore, the operation must be free to view for All. FullStop. to Add to that point, the free-to-view commercial chassis..is already In place., it is subject to a perpetuating budget to have done so..so that it is Made so. ..the real issue here is that our executive..is transiting Us into a Globalist environment, at the expense of sovereign participation and our national business lines., our national industry [business] as we know it, and that We have built up over dozens of decades. if you ceede to the idea that the world's moved on and that we must move with it, then you must structure it so that our national industry doesn't get exhumed by this concept., . .you 'think' globally, but crucially, 'act' Locally...otherwise you won't Have an industry to even parTake..globally. Dire Straights for all if we don't 'get this through our confused heads' (and Colin., please take no offence at my 'stumbled' attempt at pointing out what i see as the issues ) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...