Have A Look At This And Tell Me What You Think

[showpony 0]

So where did the head on footage go?

[ViewFromTheTop 2]

Sadly no there is no right of appeal, however I am making a formal complaint to the JCA once I obtain all the relevant evidence including the audio summary where Adrian Dooley makes so much of the '3 horse widths' movement in the last 50m, the movement that didn't actually happen.

There is no consistency here and it'll come as no surprise that I've had a few calls suggesting I do a compare and contrast with various other incidents of a similar, but typically more serious, nature where no action has resulted.

 

Just wondering how you have got on with this zzz, I was reading this thread with particular interest as I myself was wanting to make a complaint into the race my mother lost last season on protest at Ellerslie as we had a lot of support from people in the industry who felt then that there was no consistency with previous cases. Hope the team is well. Nicole.

[hedley 1,900]

Showpony.,

..the corporates have a protocol..decades old by now, of remaining silent when the hard questions or exposays are 'tabled' by 'just a few' or less.

 

i Too would like to know..because to suggest a coincidence has no creedence in my opinion.

Of the number of people who've followed this enquiry, wether that be resultant from it's exposay Here or any other means that they beCame aware and interested, i'd contend at Least 95% would Want the answer to the simple question posed.

 

..how many might that tally be? [i hear the question posed]...well i'd contend the number would be in excess of a thousand stakeholders., at least., and it maybe closer to Two!

 

..so to just remain us with 'the silent treatment'..is a glaringly especial stance!

 

we Want the answer, no matter What it is, and no matter how explainable and 'innocent' it may be.

[Leggy 4,076]

It seems not so much that the evidence has changed but the reasons for the decision which were clearly wrong in the oral decision. Can you not make a complaint on that basis, then on the basis of the response lodge a separate and further complaint if necessary?

[TBHunter 100]

I've enjoyed studying your videos dozens of times Sheriff.
Calculating, timing, measuring and even counting whip strokes at the end to judge where the post is in the head on video, working backwards to find out when the horses where actually at their closest- 1.5 to 2 seconds from the post.
It is obvious the LRD was the better horse on the day.
One surprise that came from my study was to see you sitting to the right of a young person standing using an I phone to film the race from the screen.

[Henri Jooste 40]

The race was lost not in the judicial box but rather through incompetant riding by Ms Collet. The jockey failed to change whip hand and laid into LRD without any attempt to take corrective action. NZ jockeys seem unskilled in the practice of switching whip hand. Jeff Llyod is a master and this art can be observed regularly in races run in Hong Kong where the worlds best jockeys have to demonstrate this skill otherwise they face the same outcome as your horse has - plus a holiday.

 

Why the reference "the Vela horse"  as say opposed to "the Coleman horse" or the "Whiteside horse" ? 

 

Is the ownership of significance ? Am I missing something ?  

[lindsay carston 81]

Dead right Henry,James mcdonald is an ace at changing his whip from right to left and does it regulaly.Im very surprised that very few jockeys here in nz do it or should I say r Capable of doing it.

[Guest 2Admin2]

Fascinating this is the leading topic on both sites. Go Leo!

[Trump 2,741]

The very good jocks know the importance of being able to change whip hands. However, I don't think the whip hand is the issue in this instance. The issue is the evidence by which a horse lost a race in the protest room. It would seem that Sheriff is not so much disputing the right of Stewards to uphold or dismiss the protest, but more so, the perceived distortion of the facts in the deliberation. In that case, one would have to say that based on the real facts, Sheriff is entitled to feel he's been hard done by, maybe even robbed! The 3 horse width shifting is definitely a problem.

[Portfolio 728]

Fascinating this is the leading topic on both sites. Go zzz!

 

Just was looking at the other site, first time for a long time.  They have another spin on this story.  Lets make a movie about this one Sheriff!

[Ohokaman 5,831]

Good luck with your two today zzz...hopefully clear cut so stipes out of the equation......

[bigdog1 19]

Get away from the convoluted evidence "he said...she said" and look at the Race Replay!!!

 

http://www.nzracing.co.nz/RaceInfo/42147/2/Race-Detail.aspx

 

Piazetta is blatantly coming to win, and there is noticeable change in the horse's stride as the two horses come together....even not allowing for Collett not making sufficient effort to keep her mount straight.

 

 

[TBHunter 100]

Get away from the convoluted evidence "he said...she said" and look at the Race Replay!!!

 

http://www.nzracing.co.nz/RaceInfo/42147/2/Race-Detail.aspx

 

Piazetta is blatantly coming to win, and there is noticeable change in the horse's stride as the two horses come together....even not allowing for Collett not making sufficient effort to keep her mount straight.

Can you please quote the time position in the video that pinpoints your claimed "change in the horses stride" and also the time position where they "came together"

Its possible that you are Blatantly mistaken. 

[Trump 2,741]

The horse on the outside seemed to "dip" a couple of times in the straight and lose a little momentum. In addition, my opinion is that the rider thought he was going to go "whoosh" and sail past LRD. But the latter fought back when challenged and won the race fair and square in a tight finish. To me the protest was a desparete excuse by the Jockey who misjudged the race. As for the Devil moving out "3 horse widths", I've watched the video 10 times and still can't get to 2 widths! Don't they look at videos in NZ protest situations?

[Portfolio 728]

Still seems a fair decision to me Sheriff...If your horse didnt run out, 2nd horse wouldnt have had to take evasive action? Should not matter if they touched or not, still interference.

A few on this thread have stated that the placings would have never been reversed in Aussie? I tend to disagree, in fact i have just seen the first race at Victoria today, had a punt on the 2nd horse, which had a great name...From The Grave!

The winner, Thomas The Welsh moved out quite a bit, didnt appear that they touched, but was holding the 2nd horse easily at the line.

Siren went...and i wow, From The Grave was promoted!!! Yay, I cant see how really. Would be good if someone could post that race to compare, I have only seen finish once, but it didnt seem too much in it for me.

 

Cheers.

[hedley 1,900]

" Now watch what Coleman does, the elective decision he makes and where that leads him across the track, measure it off the grass mower lines."

 

..and observe the horse run away from Michael's whipping..producing outwards running momentums

[Portfolio 728]

Fair Enough Sheriff,

But for mine, it was not a clear cut call either way.

 

But we have to be realistic, when the siren sounds they have to have a result before the next race? So in about 30 minutes they have to view films, interview jockeys, traners etc, then make their decision. Different stipes, tracks etc every time an inquiry.?

The last thing I would want is races being put back all the time because of an inquiry.

 

Why not change the rules, if a result is not clear cut in say, 25 mins, no change to placings.

[TBHunter 100]

To digress from the actual debate for a minute but still make reference to Trumps comment regarding a slight stride impediment  in the final stages, it is helpful to watch the final 100m in slow motion preferably full screen.
I open the video in Windows movie Maker.
At about 90m (16 second mark on the LRD.mov) LRD is a long neck or so ahead of The Coleman horse.
At this instant the head of LRD goes down as he reaches for the more ground required to fight off the challenge.
It then takes exactly 5 strides for LRD to match Coleman's pace by which time the horses are neck n neck, more or less. 
Then another 6 strides to the post.
In my experience an impeded horse will lift its head and neck to shorten it's stride and drop it to lengthen.
As far as I can tell both these horses went the final 80m (approx) without shortening at all.


 

[Trump 2,741]

Unfortunately portfolio has gone off here and at the same time contradicts himself! Sometimes one has to ask , "why bother ?".

[Portfolio 728]

Unfortunately portfolio has gone off here and at the same time contradicts himself! Sometimes one has to ask , "why bother ?".

 

Not sure how I have gone off?

 

All I am saying is that there has been many worse cases where a horse has been relegated than this case, and because Sheriff is not involved nothing is said. I have noticed that many on this site tend to agree with him on every topic, which is a little gutless really.

I am only giving my opinion, which was asked for at the start of thread.

But we still have many people with different views on this one....and this is after plenty of banter for a couple of weeks, hours of watching replays, talking to jockeys, traiers etc. It is no easy fix, it is not just as simple as putting in a third umpire.

Sheriff...Good Luck with Girl Of My Dreams....I am just going to have a punt on it.

Cheers

[Trump 2,741]

It's not about agreeing with the Sheriff. It's about a protest being upheld involving a horse trained by him. I am sure he would be the first person to accept an upheld verdict if the evidence presented was an accurate portrail of the alleged interference. It is quite obvious that the evidence presented was weak and possibly inaccurate. In fact, one could argue that even 50metres past the post, it still hadn't got past LRD. As for time taken to settle a protest, it wouldn't worry me if the took all day if it was my horse. But this protest did not have to take long. It could have gone either way but it was such a minor race happening, it should have been dismissed - although that's not really the point. What is the point is whether or not the evidence considered was factual. Did LRD move out 3 horse widths? I'll leave that for you to decide Portfolio. Cheers!

[Trump 2,741]

If you read the comments on why yesterday's double protest in the Sydney race won by Kingdoms was dismissed, you might like to compare it with the decision in the case on this thread. Personally, I did not bet on the race but watched it and thought there would be a protest and would probably be upheld. It wasn't and the comments of Stipe Murrihy make an interesting comparison of different standards. Make your own minds up on that!

[Ohokaman 5,831]

There's a thought zzz...send the video to the Racing Retro team and see what they think !

They can compare it to the Kingdoms protest where the winner ran out half the width of the track, and the Mildura episode shown

on this weeks show.

My money would be on Stipes in the Kennel....

[Catalano 951]

zzz, check out a nose loss by perennial maiden Catalan King at Avondale 3 starts back. Boston was sure of the win and the protest took an age, however it turned out that the head on camera was obscured or did not work, so they would not rule on it.

Perhaps the footage is missing because it doesn't exist? (Sorry if i missed something, I haven't read the whole thread)

[hedley 1,900]

..then what was the head-on footages we watched to form our opinions that Sheriff asked of us?

 

..how come they weren't available on replay, like the Other races on the day, Were!