help bout box draws by Lisa olden

[Alesha_666 45]

· PLEASE PLEASE TO ALL FB GREYHOUND TRAINERS!! CAN YOU EMAIL DEB SOLLITT AT NZGRA ABOUT HOW DANGEROUS IT IS FOR WIDE DOGS TO HAVE BOX 1 AND RAILERS TO HAVE BOX 8!! I HAVE CONTACTED THEM ABOUT CHEMICALLY FREE AND WISE CRACK LAD THAT WILL TAKE THEMSELVES OR ANOTHER DOG OUT VERY VERY SOON!!! I AM VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THEIR SAFETY AND OTHERS I KNOW I WONT CHANGE THE BOXES SYSTEM BUT IF ME AND A FEW OTHERS BACK ME ON AT LEAST MY KNOWN WIDE RUNNERS AT LEAST THEY SHOULD TAKE NOTICE!! THEY HAVE TOLD ME TO EMAIL THEM AND GET SOME OTHER TRAINERS TO. MY DOGS HAVE ALWAYS RUN WIDE EVEN AS PUPS IM NOT DOING IT AS ADVANTAGE TO WIN BUT TO HELP DOG SAFETY. I KNOW THEY WONT TAKE NOTICE TILL IT IS TOO LATE AS USUAL!!! PLEASE HELP!!

[GONSTA 1,148]

So what would you like done? For your wide runners to get box 8 every time? So what happens when you have 5 'wide runners' in one field? Or three railers all drawn 1,2,3... Seems like a recipe for carnage more so than at present.

[GONSTA 1,148]

Wise crack lad 8 starts from the pink for 1 placing...

I see where you are coming from but I can't figure out a fair way to have 'preferential box draws'....what about those dogs that don't have any wide running or railing tendencies? Do they get shoved in box 4,5 every time to favour your dogs?

If you are really that concerned about your dogs safety and others then don't run your dogs from an inside draw, seems simple enough to me.

[mmmyb 277]

Reilly - Does that mean we can scratch our dogs if they aren't in a box they like?

 

I cant think of a solution for this problem for Lisa, I understand where you are coming from. But what can be done to help you??

[DC9 203]

What a dumb thread. If GRNZ are going to do anything, they should stand down dogs that cause problems because of their manners.

[dustydreamnz 493]

In England they have wide draws for wide runners but I think that takes a lot of interest out of racing.  Shouldn't padding on the outside fences be the priority?

[GONSTA 1,148]

Reilly - Does that mean we can scratch our dogs if they aren't in a box they like?

I cant think of a solution for this problem for Lisa, I understand where you are coming from. But what can be done to help you??

No idea, but if she's that concerned about her and other dogs safety then what other options do they have?

I'd be more concerned about the amount of dogs being bred out of known fighters / non chasers than trying to have their dogs in its preferred box draw....

I wouldn't mind seeing something implemented for the odd feature race where heats are run where the fastest qualifiers get to pick their box draws.

[Idolmite 2,561]

While it appears everybody can understand the problem to some extent, what are you suggesting the solution is Alesha?

[Alesha_666 45]

I just posted for lisa as she doesnt know how to do it. but i do agree itd time for change. seeding seems to work fine over in england. Some dogs that keep there running line in middle of the track are more suited to the middle boxes anyway. something does need to be done. surely we are not the only trainers that are sick and tierd of fixing up knackered dogs week after week that have been hammered trying to battle their way through the field to their prefered postions on the track. This is an animal welfare issue... It may not seem benificial to the punter or tab as races will be more easier to predict but for those of us that value our canine charges as living beings would like to see the best dogs win not just a mad scramble into the bend wandering if our dogs are gunna make it round alive. Time for a change!

[Idolmite 2,561]

I'm just not sure who decides who goes where, who has the priority (or the right of way) etc etc

[Aaron Bidlake 760]

Could you not nominate a preferred box draw and then  these are automatically assigned to this box or near to it as possible. With each dog listed and then given a 1-8 numbering, then dog no.1 get it's preferred draw then no.2 may also get there preferred as well.Even the 8th dog could get there favorite box if  all other wanted box 1 and they were the only one to want box 8. Make sense in my head,hope it come out right on typing it.

[Idolmite 2,561]

And if you get a field for an $80,000 race and they all want #1?

[Aaron Bidlake 760]

Then it won't be any different than the current system with one lot of connections happy.

[modest mouse 469]

Realise it's a difficult situation. We're all in the same boat. We all have dogs that are suited to different draws.

And we are lucky if they come out without serious injuries.

It's called racing. 

[dustydreamnz 493]

Yeah, in my opinion it won't change.  I'm all for people bringing up new ideas though. 

[DC9 203]

What about dogs ('swoopers') that enjoy wide draws but still run true from any box? Why should they be punished by never getting their preferred box(es), because they aren't classified as deadset wide runners? If a dog is hazardous to others and his bad traits can't be trained out of him, then ban him.

[aquaman 1,352]

Lisa, this subject has been done to death, usually about every 5 yrs. It sounds like a good idea, but thats where it ends. It will not work in NZ and Australia because of two factors. The first being our system of owner trainers with everybody having the opportunity to train your own dog and having 8 dog fields. To the best of my knowledge the Nth Hemisphere dogs are 6 dog fields and most of the dogs are contracted to Stadiums where they are graded on ability and racing style. Same in America. For us to do the same we would have to pass most of our control and individuality over to a third party, ie Stadium control. Racing would not be user friendly as we no it.

 

I to thought this a great idea once only to come to the conclusion that unless you are prepared to lose autonomy over your dogs it cannot work in Australasia where we enjoy relative freedom in training and racing your Greyhounds.

[Cheftrevor01 26]

The drawing system in Ireland works and believe me it doesnt favour any dogs in the race. If you have 3 wide runners here they will be drawn say 678 if you have railers they are drawn 123 or even middle runners are drawn say 45. You will find there is less interference in a race but not completely. I have to agree that a seeding system would work with most dogs getting a chance for a clear run.

There are pros and cons to this discussion but i certainly would like to see dogs getting a smooth running in there race without getting smashed up on the corners. I do also think if they did change this system they would have to run with an outside hare. You will see with the racing in Ireland the outside hare seems to give the dogs a more spread out going around corners etc. but then again in Eire we are running with 6 dog fields.

A good discussion this one and certainly everyone has their opinions on this one. But good topic to discuss.

Chef

[Cheftrevor01 26]

The drawing system in Ireland works and believe me it doesnt favour any dogs in the race. If you have 3 wide runners here they will be drawn say 678 if you have railers they are drawn 123 or even middle runners are drawn say 45. You will find there is less interference in a race but not completely. I have to agree that a seeding system would work with most dogs getting a chance for a clear run.

There are pros and cons to this discussion but i certainly would like to see dogs getting a smooth running in there race without getting smashed up on the corners. I do also think if they did change this system they would have to run with an outside hare. You will see with the racing in Ireland the outside hare seems to give the dogs a more spread out going around corners etc. but then again in Eire we are running with 6 dog fields.

A good discussion this one and certainly everyone has their opinions on this one. But good topic to discuss.

Chef

Oh and also like to say the 1 Trap does not favour in Ireland. Better jumping from the 4 Trap there

[dustydreamnz 493]

There is a trainer down south whose dogs always seem to run wide.  I've always wanted to know, why would this be?  Surely it couldn't be a fluke, could it be the way they are broken in?

[modest mouse 469]

All dogs from my first litter like it out wide. For no reason what so ever.

In my humble opinion it might have to do with not jumping, or needing the space to pick up speed. ? 

[bunyarra 185]

I can only see the introdution of a Preferred box draw syetem as being of benefit to all.

 

It would lead to less interference and safer racing and therefore a reduction in the number of injuries which is a big plus from an animal welfare perspective and instill punter confidence leading to potential growth in turnover.

 

The only reasons why it hasn't gotten off the ground before is: 

i) Because of the "Fear of Change"

ii) Thrown in the "Too Hard Basket" 

iii) A blinkered perception that some dogs may be advantaged

[DC9 203]

Can't see how it would be a benefit to all. As I said earlier, it would disadvantage some dogs with good manners who have a better winning chance from certain draws but run true regardless of where they start from. Stand down bad mannered/ poorly trained dogs rather than try to manufacture races before they start. And , anyway,you would find the unexpected would still happen. And can you imagine trying to manage it. It would just be a matter of time before you got races with 6 o 7 'wide runner' nominations.

[dustydreamnz 493]

Can't see how it would be a benefit to all. As I said earlier, it would disadvantage some dogs with good manners who have a better winning chance from certain draws but run true regardless of where they start from. Stand down bad mannered/ poorly trained dogs rather than try to manufacture races before they start. And , anyway,you would find the unexpected would still happen. And can you imagine trying to manage it. It would just be a matter of time before you got races with 6 o 7 'wide runner' nominations.

Absolutely. 

[Fernlea25 110]

May as well just bring in a "Road Code"... could call it "Track Code". 

 

All dogs must pass the test before being allowed to race.  Give way to dogs coming from your right... indicate for at least 3 seconds before changing lanes...

 

On a more serious note, I can't see this ever working.  Random box draws are the only fair way of doing it. 

 

There are plenty of dogs who aren't wide runners but still jump better when drawn wide.  Would they be allowed to have wide draws every time because they perform better?  Or would it only be the erratic dogs who got special treatment?