Broodmare values-how do you decide...

[lotsofggs 2]

I was thinking the other day & discussing with a friend, about how do you value a broodmare who say was a fantastic (perhaps even group winner)herself but has left nothing of stakes quality from more than five foals against say a mare that was not sucessful on the track or unraced but has left good perfomers inc stakeswinners from very modest stallion matings.

Who would you say would hold greater value?

Do you make the assumption that the highly performed mare on the track just hasn't been mated to the right stallion (when quite often they have had the best of opportunities)or do you say that she is a dud as far as passing on her ability...

Just food for thought & interested what others think about this.

[Nerula 1,403]

I think an assumption one can make is that class will always come back somewhere down the line. As an example Sunlines 6th or 7th dam was a full sister to Phar Lap, I read. So I would plump for the well performed mares offspring or the full sibling of the other example.

I would go this way as the quality of rearing has a big bearing. A top breeder told me that he reckoned rearing could be 30% of a good horse.

Then comes the training and extracting the potential from the animal. Are they going to pressure it and ruin it or take the horse up gradually. Will it be properly fed and treated. Will someone check it for pain.

There is a few things a prospective owner can think about apart from the breed

Interesting thread: hope it has legs

[nod 1]

One is a successful racehorse and the other a successful broodmare and as it's broodmares you are talking there is no contest.

As that Yank maintained 'it's best to search for gold where gold has been found'.

[lotsofggs 2]

But is it as simple as that when deciding a value to the mare- a successful racemare herself mated with a "commercial sire" leaves progeny that still seem to sell well even if prior progeny have not shown ability so therefore her return to her owners may/will still be more than perhaps the "sucessful" broodmare that is of less pedigree/performane but has shown she delivers the goods with her progeny on the track....

[Overdale 0]

But is it as simple as that when deciding a value to the mare- a successful racemare herself mated with a "commercial sire" leaves progeny that still seem to sell well even if prior progeny have not shown ability so therefore her return to her owners may/will still be more than perhaps the "sucessful" broodmare that is of less pedigree/performane but has shown she delivers the goods with her progeny on the track....

It's a fact of life 'GG'. And much of it comes down to where the progeny are sold, i.e. the top racemare with plenty of black type will probably get offspring into the top sales,chances are they'll get good money even though she hasn't set the world on fire to that point. I could name a very,very good mare (NOT Sunline) who has had a number of foals by top stallions go through the ring for good money and has hardly left a winner,because she was a G1 winner her foals seem to get into K1 regardless of her performance as a broodmare.

[horsegears 0]

One is a successful racehorse and the other a successful broodmare and as it's broodmares you are talking there is no contest.

As that Yank maintained 'it's best to search for gold where gold has been found'.

I agree with Nod, common sence i would of thought. A dam that has produced a numberof good foals (from an ave sire) has proven itself a number of times as a breeder. (maybe it just never showed its racetrack ability for unrelated reasons)

[Juno 0]

I could name a very,very good mare (NOT Sunline) who has had a number of foals by top stallions go through the ring for good money and has hardly left a winner,because she was a G1 winner her foals seem to get into K1 regardless of her performance as a broodmare.

Of course they get into the Premier sale, because as you said yourself, they ''go through the ring for good money''. Why would the NZB care about how well they race, provided they sell well? NZB is a commercial operation, not a racing charity.

[Henri Jooste 40]

The sad fact is that once a mare has had four or five to the races without a stakes winner or stakes placed performer her value plummets like a stone regardless of her own racing prowess. Unless she is in the ownership of one of the big commercial farms her offspring will have little chance of getting onto the major sale days thereafter.

On the other hand a modestly performed though well related mare who has stakes performers amongst her first four or five foals should have enhanced value and if mated to a highly commercial sire have a very good chance of that yearling gaining entry to one of the big sales.

In todays climate broodmares are disposable commodities if they do not front up quickly with stakes winners.

[increase 0]

My thoughts from a background which is very experienced in business analysis and which is still learning about the breeding business. Broodmare values are incredibly highly leveraged to sale prices. Let's say the average yearling price falls from $100k to $75k. The costs of getting the yearling there stay fixed at say $30k. The average service fee falls a little (with a 3 year lag) from say $50k to $40k. That moves the gross profit margin that you'd value your mare on from $20k to $5k - a fourfold move! It can be worse than that of course because you only know after the market has peaked that you've just paid a top-of-cycle service fee which will almost certainly send the gross margin negative when that future yearling is sold at the bottom-of-market sale. I guess the good news is that this is where we are now. Service fees have probably done about 2/3rd's of their falls and a lot (but maybe not all) of the bad news has been capitalised into broodmare values. If only there was some way for vet, transport and sale costs to fall. Being positive, broodmare values are obviously just as highly leveraged to the upside when prices turn. However, broodmares obviously don't last forever, so you don't want to be right about the market 3 years too early. For a major stud that owns its own stallions, the numbers can look a little different as they can lay off some of the sale price swings from their broodmares to their stallions. However, if the stud has just paid $5m to get a stallion at the top of the market which can no longer justify the fee to pay back that money, then you'd be in deeper doo-doo than the broodmare owner.