Declining Foal Crops Require Action

[Hunterville 0]

Just reading The Informant sales preview it is alarming to note the foal crops have fallen by about 1000 foals in the years from 2001 to 2008. It's a 20% decrease from 5150 to 4100 and something NZTR should be seriously looking at.

NZTBA put forward a scheme in 2008 and were told by Guy Sargeant there was not enough money for it and instead bonuses were better spent on trainers incentives and getting horses away from trials and into races.

You can read NZTBA's Breed To Race proposal here, I think many here agree it is vital the small breeders are looked after during this time when so many are getting out of the game.

http://tinyurl.com/nztbascheme

[nod 1]

I have an inkling the numbers have gone up a trifle in the last two years.

However they do need to decline further if there is to be a reasonable expectation of profit from breeding.

I note suggestion there will be insufficient numbers to sustain local racing -that is tripe -currently many yearlings are sold to overseas countries but a vibrant local racing scene would reverse that.

As for "trainers incentives" how stupid can you get? why not incentives for float companies, for farriers, vets, etc -after all they are paid professionals just like trainers.

If the number of races was halved and the prizes doubled then things would improve.

Dumbing down the game to masses of miserable races for rock bottom stakes suits no one .

[Horses4Courses 0]

We have been emailing Guy Sargent over the last 10 years. We also brought it up at every Forum we attended only to be told to stop going on about declining foal crops.

We personally believe that the declining foal crops is playing right into NZTR's hands. The reason for thinking this is that without the horses there is not a need for as many racecourses. As we know, they have been trying to shut down some of the small clubs (the heart of racing) for 10-20 years.

Why is NZTR not concerned?

[Phar Lap Fan 104]

Agree with your comment, Don. On T.A.B. Teletext page I see that there are 19 meetings available for me to bet on. Yeah. Right! Greyhounds in N.Z. don't interest me, let alone in Wattamutti.

On the other hand, have you noticed the number of Australian-bred horses in our 2 y.o. races and entered for Karaka. Don't see much benefit for local breeders other than as nannys (raising somebody's kids).

Also disappointed to see Trentham Stakes reduced to 2,100 metres. The late Jack Glengarry propose that it was the ideal race to be our 'Arc'. Could be delayed until March, to entice 3 y.o. entries, but much more interesting at 2,400m. Higher stake money needed though.

When a 2 y.o. can have its first start in Melbourne for $100,00, we have along way to catch up, so some serious changes are needed. Start with owners' incentives as no trainers without them?

[summer 0]

Get real, the declining foal crop requires no action at all by anyone as there has been an over supply problem for years.

[foxy 0]

You only had to be at Karaka yesterday afternoon on the last day of the Festival sale to see why the foal crop is declining. Depressing indeed.

[fairleez 0]

Agree,Foxy....doesn't a 71% clearance rate in Festival indicate either too many horses bred and not enough buyers at the lower end?

[bazzag 0]

If something isn't done about stake money.

It is not that we breed to many horses, not compared to years gone by anyway,It is because new owners are not silly enough to enter a game where the trafficking of money is all one way.

Unless you get real lucky you are going to start losing money hand over fist the minute you sign the sales agreement.

But........ it will be cheaper than trying to breed one.

[trakdap 390]

You only had to be at Karaka yesterday afternoon on the last day of the Festival sale to see why the foal crop is declining. Depressing indeed.

Agree. But I also think there needs to be an independent selection panel thru the 3 sales, with conformation and type considered as well as breeding.

Some Premier and select yearlings quite obviously should not have been there on conformation and type and some Festival yearlings were great types and should have been upgraded.

[Overdale 0]

If something isn't done about stake money.

It is not that we breed to many horses, not compared to years gone by anyway,It is because new owners are not silly enough to enter a game where the trafficking of money is all one way.

Unless you get real lucky you are going to start losing money hand over fist the minute you sign the sales agreement.

But........ it will be cheaper than trying to breed one.

The sales are the sales, the guys who paid $2m for the top lot still don't know if the horse can run.It's always been the same,cream rises to the top and the best racehorses sometimes don't know who their parents were. You have to pay the man and hope for the best.

[Hollywood Baz 10]

Bazzag is spot on. What happened to the extra money from reduced taxes "Winny" managed to get? How much has gone into re-dressing stake money which, compared to costs, has degenerated over the last twenty five years?

The battler owner/breeder is at the end of the food chain- all costs for training, agistment, feed, vets, transport, etc are increased with inflation so the providers of these do very nicely thank you very much, as they are all fed down to the breeder/owner.

[foxy 0]

Trakdap you are right about an independent selection panel. At the moment it is just a case of the big guys looking after themselves. The small breeder hasn't got a hope in hell and they are bailing out in their droves. We have, and are just breeding to keep and race now. We have just had some owners who are small breeders get a kick in the teeth after their first yearling sale. I doubt they will be back. You just can't keep on losing money like that.

I was looking back at some sale catalogs from when it was Wrightson Bloodstock the other day, and I was amazed at the greater spread of vendors and stallions at the top level. Small breeders seemed to foot it with the bigger studs, who didn't have nearly the dominance they do now.

As far as I can see, the yearling sales will carry on this path, with just a few large vendors dominating, and a very limited range of stallions progeny offered. Not good, in my book.

It has occurred to me before that the Commerce Commission should be interested in the market position taken by NZB. It is not a healthy market, and I am sure if we were talking supermarkets or airlines they would be in there in a flash taking them to task for abusing their dominant market position.

And yes, stakesmoney is pathetic. We have a rating 70 horse going around today for stakes of $6000. What a bloody joke. Yes, what happened to the extra stakesmoney we were promised?

[wobbly 76]

Sorry foxy, you may be looking in the wrong direction.

The bigger studs dominate the premier catalogue nowadays for a simple reason. They cull mares that leave inferior stock.

When stallions like Shinko King, Kings Chapel and Elusive city are returning many times their service fee at the Festival Sale....then perhaps your client's problems lie somewhere other than the studmasters and selling agents?

[foxy 0]

Wobbly I have a mare that has left 8 winners from 9 to race and I kept on getting put in Festival sale. She is from a top producing family and I put her to stallions that produce winners and are well and truly proven. They were just not O'Reilly, Pins or Montjeu unfortunately.

I put another colt from one of NZs top families and by an Oz based sire through and got put in Carnival sale. The mare was a half sister to 2 stakes performers at G2 level at the time and her half brother has gone on to be a G1 winner. It was her first foal. Now if we had been one of the bigger studs this colt would have been at least Select.

As for our clients, one of their colts was by Viking Ruler and was a nice type, just immature. Nothing wrong with the family either. They didn't get a bid.

[trakdap 390]

Sorry foxy, you may be looking in the wrong direction.

The bigger studs dominate the premier catalogue nowadays for a simple reason. They cull mares that leave inferior stock.

When stallions like Shinko King, Kings Chapel and Elusive city are returning many times their service fee at the Festival Sale....then perhaps your client's problems lie somewhere other than the studmasters and selling agents?

I dont think foxy is looking in the wrong direction.

Re Culls.

Tell me why 1st foals of wellbred mares are put below their punching weight.

And

well bred yearlings from (non cull mares,) with bad conformation etc are put in well above theirs?

[Juno 0]

From my experience, the NZB will generally place horses in sales according to their value. Of course, they will obviously make some exceptions to appease their big, loyal customers such as Cambridge Stud, and why wouldn't they.

At the level of Select and Festival I believe the agents do their best to place horses according to their value. A Viking Ruler that made no bids in the Festival Sale probably wouldn't have gotten any in the Select Sale either.

In my opinion, if you are going to be breeding with the aim of selling in the Festival Sale, you'd want to be using a mare that leaves nice correct horses and have plenty of luck with your sire selection, otherwise your chances of coming out on top are nil. No fault of the NZB.

As for the stakes money available in NZ - pathetic. If I had a half-decent horse to race I'd send it to Singapore.

[jess 1,244]

- it's bloody hard work for the small breeder - even if you have good sound stock.

I have a friend who has been selling young stock under a stud's banner for several years and wants to go out alone but knows that it will likely be a painful experience - at least initially.

I have observed the auctioneers seem to work harder for some (big) clients than others.

I also know that there are a lot of jack-ups re sales with some of the big players.

That aside - why is it that so often the small breeders have such modest success at the sales? Do buyers just not look at/disregard stock which doesn't come from the big boys' outfits?

I don't accept the disparity is based purely on difference in quality of stock.

I'm interested in responses from buyers and sellers .....

[trakdap 390]

- it's bloody hard work for the small breeder - even if you have good sound stock.

I have a friend who has been selling young stock under a stud's banner for several years and wants to go out alone but knows that it will likely be a painful experience - at least initially.

I have observed the auctioneers seem to work harder for some (big) clients than others.

I also know that there are a lot of jack-ups re sales with some of the big players.

That aside - why is it that so often the small breeders have such modest success at the sales? Do buyers just not look at/disregard stock which doesn't come from the big boys' outfits?

I don't accept the disparity is based purely on difference in quality of stock.

I'm interested in responses from buyers and sellers .....

Jess,

Maybe the small breeders can get their own marketing machine going for a small fee . This seems to be the only benefit going thru big drafts. Some pro active person (maybe retired marketing person) can set this up.

[trakdap 390]

Or

Maybe a sort of co-operative.

all worth consideration..

[bazzag 0]

Or

Maybe a sort of co-operative.

all worth consideration..

all the small breeders pulling in the same direction, but it seems to me there is an option for Festival sale quality horses.

Sell them thru Cambridge Lodge Sales and go into opposition with the present "CARTEL" that is holding small breeders to ransom in NZ.

Most of the 420 festival horses were bought by NZ owners and trainers anyway, so the international buyers although welcome are not essential.

Monopolies are ALWAYS bad for consumers.

[trakdap 390]

bazzag.

co-operative. I was meaning still sell at Karaka but have all small breeders under the one banner.

That would include all marketing etc. done by the co-op. from premier thru festival. Maybe have options overseas etc. if lots do not meet reserve. Use the current system, but to your advantage.

Its like the old saying..

If you are handed a bag of Lemons, make Lemonade..

[nod 1]

NZRR must shoulder a lot of the blame for the decline in the foal crop .

Their continued stupidity regarding allowances for fillies and mares causes fillies t o be unwanted at sales,.

Indeed if your mare and the sire are not in the very top layer then you would be better off financially to shoot a filly at birth.

One well known studmaster told me today that after foetal sexing those mares carrying lesser bred fillies should be aborted.

I had a look at the stats for 39 sires with 6yo+ progeny.

Colts won half as many more races than fillies did.

On average fillies won $21367, colts $39652.

The reason for this disparity is the failure of NZTR to ensure that the fillies allowance carries right through all the grades.It is no use winning a maiden or c70 with the allowance then having to effectively carry a colts weight.

NZTR can encourage more foals, more racehorses,better yearling prices for fillies, by simply directing the handicapper.

No one can argue agin the WFA scale with its built in allowances, nor should anyone be swayed by false stats.Fillies and mares should win more NZ races than colts because the best of them are retained here and the bulk of the better colts exported.

[Nerula 1,403]

Nod I agree with you

[bazzag 0]

Could you please send a copy of your post to The lunk heads running the show.

Nearly have to agree with your studmaster friend as well..... as long as the stud fee was refundable.

Where is racing in NZ heading? I personally have never felt less comfortable with our prospects in 40 odd years of horse ownership. I feel the curtain coming down on my participation rather rapidly.

[summer 0]

Bazzag, the suggestion about backing another sales company is fine, and needs to be explored further, however one company lost a huge amount of credibilty in some folks eyes a couple of years back when an employee ok.ed a sales entry that was sold under the hammer then found to be ineligble for rego, due to to the vendor failing to fill out a return for the studbook and the buyer was less than happy to say the least, and more than a little custard flowed till issues were sorted.