This is whats wrong with Harness Racing

[Stables 577]

Border Control, the winner of 7 races and $165,525 in stakes is elegible to start in maiden races as a 3 year. This means that Mark Purdon has the opportunity to start again with a pacer that has proven he is one of the best in Australasia. Now thats great for Purdon and Border Controls owners but what about the owners of inexperienced maiden pacers that have to start against him with no chance of beating him and having their hearts broken in the process. The current handicapping system is far too heavily weighted in favour of the lucky few and until thats changed owners will continue to leave the game

[Overcheck 190]

I don't think horses of the calibre of Border Control are going to start in maidens even if they can, as there are races with much better stakes available to them. The top three year old races etc.

[stackedbluechip 29]

Well the no penalty free wins as a two year old are there to get more young stock to the races. I see no problem with this as a horse of 2 is obviously still maturing and it does its bit in offering incentives to actually keep racing a horse. Just imagine if we didnt have penalty free wins! a horses race career would be cut even shorter. Horses like border control will pass maidens quickly anyway. What I would say is the industry is too lop sided towards young stock as opposed to middle aged racing but that's something the industry is trying to correct through claimers, extra jewels race conditions etc..

[muzzcat 0]

i agree with you ''stables'',i dont mind there been penalty free races for 2.y.olds,but they really do have to cap them,i think every 3rd win irrelevant of the stake should carry a penalty,under this system border control would be a c2 horse.

[Stables 577]

The fact is that Border Control is just one example of the inequities of the handicapping system. Every year there are dozens of Border Controls and they do start in maiden and one win races generally as warm ups to group races. They dominate the betting as there is little point in backing anything to beat them and consequently turnovers suffer. A horse can win $165,000 and not receive a penalty and another horse can win a $3,000 race and is rehandicapped up a class. Where is the fairness in that. You say that it provides incentives to retain horses in New Zealand but where is the incentive to race nice horses that are not quite in the class of a Border Control. These horses are being sent overseas in their dozens generally eending up in Australia where they can be competiive

[what a post 811]

He will probably be seen first up in some $8000 maiden at addington with about 25 nominations,but after viewing nominations most will withdraw and only about 7 will start.

[Stables 577]

Precisely

[G Unit 1]

two-year-old racing should be penalty free apart from features. There needs to be an incentive for people to buy yearlings and Ready To Runs...

[Stables 577]

Yeah that ideas really working. The vast majority of yearlings are sold at a loss because there is no middle market

[muzzcat 0]

people seem intent looking after 2.y.o and 3.y.olds,theres no problem giving them penalty free wins but have a cap on them,what you are saying unit is look after them and fk the rest,there are more of the rest running around than the aged group,start looking after them as well,it is so ridiculous that when border control wins his next race he stays a maiden.

[Scotty Belmont 0]

If your Handicappers had a bit of nouse then they would put simple earnings backs on those 3yo maidens to stop horses such as Border Control from dropping in for paid training outings.

How hard would it be for them to add lifetime earnings conditions that locked out the heavy hitters? Not difficult at all.

The HRV Handicappers are the same. They continually leave their C0's-1's-2's-3's etc wide open to the hot hand 2+ win 3yos dropping in and beating up on the lesser older horses...then they have the hide to turn around and complain about it happening.

[Stables 577]

The problem is Scotty that our handicapping system doesn't allow this. Border Control is designated as a non winner with earnings of $0 for handicapping purposes and is therefore no different from an unraced 3 year old. Therefore the only way you could keep Border Control out of a maiden race would be to exclude all 3 year olds. This is done on occasions but the problem is that you have to give those unraced 3 year olds opportunities to race. The system needs to be changed so that any 2 year old winning stake in excess of $10,000 is penalty bearing. This would result in a more even playing field for all comers

[Scotty Belmont 0]

Yeh? Geeze. I'm not familiar with NZ Handicapping but nevertheless, that sounds nuts.

It's a very reasonable course of action to take to write conditions on those races that will keep the heavy hitters out of the lesser grades and push them to race the better horses.

Under your system is there no way that a 'winners of no more than $10,000 lifetime' condition or something like that could be added ?

[Stables 577]

No because their earnings are excluded from their handicaped rating

[Scotty Belmont 0]

That's crazy. You need to overhaul your system.

[Blue 1,095]

The problem is Scotty that our handicapping system doesn't allow this. Border Control is designated as a non winner with earnings of $0 for handicapping purposes and is therefore no different from an unraced 3 year old. Therefore the only way you could keep Border Control out of a maiden race would be to exclude all 3 year olds. This is done on occasions but the problem is that you have to give those unraced 3 year olds opportunities to race. The system needs to be changed so that any 2 year old winning stake in excess of $10,000 is penalty bearing. This would result in a more even playing field for all comers

True, but it didn't stop them running 'bit of a Legend' in a $3,500 race on a Tuesday at Auckland on his way to better things. I doubt Purdon would do that for that money but don't blame Mark for something that hasn't and may not happen. It's the handicapping system that allows the opportunity. I wouldn't think it would be a difficult hole to plug.Just limit the number of wins, stake money or group wins/placings.

[Stables 577]

You obviously have difficulties with comprehension. Nowhere have I blamed Mark Purdon for this. Good on him for having the horses to take advantage of the current rediculous handicapping system. Bit of A Legend starting in a $3500 race further proves my point. These inequalities should not happen in a fair and equitable handicapping system. Your last sentence also supports what I am arguing for but the current system does not allow it as it considers Border Control to be no different to an unraced maiden. The fault lays fairly and squarely with the current handicapper Darrin Williams who sees nothing wrong with such inequities and argues for the continuance of the current system

[what a post 811]

He will probably be seen first up in some $8000 maiden at addington with about 25 nominations,but after viewing nominations most will withdraw and only about 7 will start.

i see the $10000 mobile at addington has been cancelled for the 2nd week in a row.unfortunately predictable.

[what a post 811]

i see the $10000 mobile at addington has been cancelled for the 2nd week in a row.unfortunately predictable.

[what a post 811]

i see the $10000 mobile at addington has been cancelled for the 2nd week in a row.unfortunately predictable.

I refer to the $10000 one win mobile race

[Kiah 13]

True, but it didn't stop them running 'bit of a Legend' in a $3,500 race on a Tuesday at Auckland on his way to better things. I doubt Purdon would do that for that money but don't blame Mark for something that hasn't and may not happen. It's the handicapping system that allows the opportunity. I wouldn't think it would be a difficult hole to plug.Just limit the number of wins, stake money or group wins/placings.

This is not going to happen all the time. Top horses are not going to be going round for that kind of money week in week out. They will have the occasional run in a low grade when they are on the rise. I dont have a problem with it.

[globederby 8]

No Kiah,but the point here is that with costs needing to be minimised and using an analogy,if I turned up at a track meet for the 100 mtrs after some backer paying my training fees,acceptance etc and suddenly found myself up againsted Usain Bolt the consequences go far beyond my own indignation. So it is for harness,no matter how infrequently. Someones money is behind everyhorse,we nneed a level playing field or lose more horses overseas.

[Stables 577]

The maiden race at Addington on Friday is a classic case of how unfair the current handicapping system is. Out of a total of 9 horses 4 have won races including Machs A Flyin 1 win, $3000 in stakes, Mighty Flying Mac, 1 win $43,128, Hard Copy, 2 wins, $25,439 and Sir Tosti Mac, 2 wins, $38,171. That means there are only 5 genuine non winners in the field. In my opinion no race winners should be allowed to start in a maiden or non win race. Addington administrators wonder why they get few nominations for their meetings. This race is a perfect example of why

[tasman man 11 979]

The maiden race at Addington on Friday is a classic case of how unfair the current handicapping system is. Out of a total of 9 horses 4 have won races including Machs A Flyin 1 win, $3000 in stakes, Mighty Flying Mac, 1 win $43,128, Hard Copy, 2 wins, $25,439 and Sir Tosti Mac, 2 wins, $38,171. That means there are only 5 genuine non winners in the field. In my opinion no race winners should be allowed to start in a maiden or non win race. Addington administrators wonder why they get few nominations for their meetings. This race is a perfect example of why

But the 2 to 3 win, 3 to 5 win and 5 to 7 win races have even smaller fields ......losing horses from these grades thru sale to Aussie etc must be more of a concern.Maidens seem to have plenty of racing opportunities , especially of late.There appears to be an average of 3 South Island meetings a week at mo and Timaru is catering for over 50 maidens who find the Met field too hot.Plus several Chch trainers are taking horses down to Winton as well.Penalty-free races for 2 year-olds obviously encourages horses to race thru Autumn and Winter making fields bigger than would normally be the case.Maidens who struggle to pay their way are probably just too slow .Many trainers travel far and wide to place their horses to advantage and all grades have standout horses etc.New Zealand must be the hardest place in world to win a race !!!!

[Stables 577]

I agree, New Zealand would be the hardest place in the world to win a race and that is largely due to our handicapping system. Horses don't move through the grades due to penalty free concessions and consequently field numbers up the grades are consistently small. Horse owners forced to race against multiple race winners in lower grade races try to overcome this by allowing trainers to travel huge distances to compete for $5000 or $6000 in Southland, even if their horse wins they see little profit from the trip and often get fed up and sell their horses overseas. All because of a handicapping system that is destroying Harness racing in New Zealand