Sir Percy again and again

[kmhood 1]

Via Meydan (IRE) 2009

(F. by Sir Percy-Via Scozia)

1st Dax Prix de la Barre, €12000 2300m earning €6000

Yammos (IRE) 2009

(G. by Sir Percy-Carenage)

3rd Aalborg Løb, Dkr108000 1800m earning Dkr13000

Free House (GB) 2009

(G. by Sir Percy-Coming Home)

1st Taby Klass 1 3-åRslöpning, Kr.95000 1600m earning Kr.50000

[Henri Jooste 40]

I think that we need to get some perspective here, the reporting of the deeds at stud of Sir Percy is bordering on hysteria. Every month existing sires are getting winners in similar fashion. For example after he had sired the Clairwood Gold Circle Oaks (GR2) winner Tajmeel in June Nadeem has sired another seven individual winners in the past month

17.08.12

Bengal Angel (AUS) 2008

(F. by Nadeem-Foscat) 1st Taree-Wingham RC Bushland Bottleshop H., A$14450 1300m earning A$8200

14/08/2012

Dark Angel (AUS) 2008

(F. by Nadeem-Opaline) 1st Tamworth JC Carlton Mid H., A$15000 1200m earning A$8200

06/08/2012

River Flower (AUS) 2008

(F. by Nadeem-River Tribe) 1st Mildura RC Betfair Maiden P., A$17000 1400m earning A$11000

31/07/2012

Nadhima (AUS) 2008

(F. by Nadeem-Little Pretty) 1st Geelong RC Function & Event Centre H., A$12550 1000m earning A$6825

29/07/2012

Carla (AUS) 2008

(F. by Nadeem-Alberghetti) 1st Kalgoorlie Boulder RC Golden City Holden Maiden P., A$10000 1600m earning A$7000

28/07/2012

Beaufort Gyre (AUS) 2008

(G. by Nadeem-Arctic Drift) 1st Newcastle JC Solar Maiden H., A$26625 1400m earning A$17250

25/07/12

Starting Over (AUS) 2008

(G. by Nadeem-Maritess) 1st WATC Westspeed H., A$20000 1200m earning A$13000

Indy King for example too has racked up the winners (7) over the past month

05/08/12

King Chieca (USA) 2008

(C. by Indy King-Chiecaworld) 1st Monmouth Claiming, US$16000 1200m earning US$9600

04/08/12

In D Shadow (USA) 2008

(F. by Indy King-Scarlett O'Mali) 1st Thistledown Claiming, US$4800 1200m earning US$2880

31/07/2012

Cachita (USA) 2008

(F. by Indy King-Winning Play) 1st Suffolk Claiming, US$8820 1200m earning US$5400

27/07/2012

Queen Lilly Kay (USA) 2009

(F. by Indy King-Lilly Cozzene) 1st Prairie Meadows Maiden Special Weight, US$34835 1100m earning US$21002

25/07/2012

Cherry Queen (USA) 2007

(F. by Indy King-Cherry Gold) 1st Evangeline Claiming, US$9160 1650m earning US$4800

24/07/2012

Cat Phone (USA) 2007

(C. by Indy King-Devious Penny) 1st Finger Lakes Claiming, US$9000 1100m earning US$5400

23/07/2012

Whispered Legend (USA) 2008

(C. by Indy King-Whispered Love) 1st Fort Erie Starter Allowance, US$10568 1600m earning US$6339

Even Duelled has sired five individual winners over the past month including Cavestani who placed 4th in a Listed race.

My point is that whilst Sir Percy is having success which bodes well for all of those with progeny by him, theses deeds are not remarkable and we should not loose sight of other sires too. I am eagerly awaiting the debut in NZ of the Sir Percy progeny, especially when they are tried over distance later as I have had a hand in the production of some of them.

[kmhood 1]

Perhaps we could have a post for him. As you say it would make a change. He is also a proven sire to come into NZ for his first season here. It would give those who use him cause for hope for their progeny in the coming years. Hope is what we all need a good dash of in this game.

[Barmer 0]

I think that we need to get some perspective here, the reporting of the deeds at stud of Sir Percy is bordering on hysteria.

Come on Henry - hardly hysteria. Sir Percy's stats - foals bred/runners/winners are pretty remarkable. It will certainly be interesting though when his first SH runners hit the ground although his results can't be fairly compared to stallions with books of 100 or more. Roll on the coming season.

[Octagonal 0]

Perhaps we could have a post for him. As you say it would make a change. He is also a proven sire to come into NZ for his first season here. It would give those who use him cause for hope for their progeny in the coming years. Hope is what we all need a good dash of in this game.

If you could afford to for anyone, Nadeem would be the go to horse this season @ 8k. All the horses are in the right stables in Vic & Syd and other states - winning every week. Weanlings sold good at the NZW sale. Wish he would be 8k next season - Don't like my chances.

[kmhood 1]

I am interested in seeing any winners by any proven NZ Standing Stallions - all makes interesting reading and that is what this forum is about - breeding. We should see more winners coming out from Gallant Guru, Remind, Edenwold who are turning up in races now. There are a few stallions I have in mind to use sometime in the future, just have to wait until they have runners doing the job, until it is so cannot take the risk they won't make it.

Henri - I love hearing about Indy King Stats as have a yearling filly and another (colt?) due this season. I bought a mare especially for him as you know. He is a proven stallion - perhaps in the league of Sir Percy with Black type runners to foals etc. What are his stats? Would like to know. They have to be good.

Seems to me that Sir Percy's runners to his small crop numbers really is extraordinary. It is not often NZ gets to have available an English Derby winner and one whose progeny is proving themselves on the track now. The thing that I am amazed at is the distance these youngsters are running at 3. I have him on my Arion Tracker so get warning of when his youngsters are racing and then the results. Will put up Indy King and Nadeem as a matter of interest.

[Dopey 214]

another who is consistantly getting winners....if he has a good three year old result in NZ his status is assured...if not....assured in a differnt way.

looks promising so far...

disclosure: I have one (soon)

[kmhood 1]

Let's have a post for his winners too and Faltaat whose fee is very modest for the winners at high level he siring.

Will start new threads before everyone can talk of their foals arriving. Wish we could post photo's like the one that Peter J did a few years ago.

[Black Sam Bellamy 0]

Sire of the winners of 50 races and £472,685.

Listed Winners

BOMAR (IRE) (Galizzz (IRE): Land Rover Svenskt Derby, Jagersro, L.).

COQUET (GB) (Nashwan (USA): Height of Fashion Stakes, Goodwood, L., Mount Nelson EBF Montrose Stakes, Newmarket, L.).

Group Placed

Cavaleiro (IRE) (Alhaarth (IRE): third in Betfred Derby Trial Stakes, Lingfield Park, Gr.3).

Listed Placed

Alla Speranza (GB) (Selkirk (USA): second in Eyrefield Stakes, zzzpardstown, L.).

Hyder (FR) (Sadler's Wells (USA): second in Premio Giuseppe de Montel, Milan, L.).

Percy Jackson (GB) (Hernando (FR): second in Oppenheim-Rennen, Cologne, L.).

Slim Pickings if you ask me.....

[Barmer 0]

Sire of the winners of 50 races and £472,685.

Listed Winners

BOMAR (IRE) (Galizzz (IRE): Land Rover Svenskt Derby, Jagersro, L.).

COQUET (GB) (Nashwan (USA): Height of Fashion Stakes, Goodwood, L., Mount Nelson EBF Montrose Stakes, Newmarket, L.).

Group Placed

Cavaleiro (IRE) (Alhaarth (IRE): third in Betfred Derby Trial Stakes, Lingfield Park, Gr.3).

Listed Placed

Alla Speranza (GB) (Selkirk (USA): second in Eyrefield Stakes, zzzpardstown, L.).

Hyder (FR) (Sadler's Wells (USA): second in Premio Giuseppe de Montel, Milan, L.).

Percy Jackson (GB) (Hernando (FR): second in Oppenheim-Rennen, Cologne, L.).

Slim Pickings if you ask me.....

Compared to .....?

[claude55 16]

Just talking to a mate about past Stallions how there progeny held form Great Stallions like So Vain Zamasan War Hawk II Palestine Wandering Eyes Oncidium. Racing today it seems horses just arent up to these previous lets hope we can have a nice one along or emulate these Greats.

[kmhood 1]

A lot of these stallions you mention are behind a lot of the broodmares being bred today. They were also good broodmare sires some of them

[claude55 16]

yes that was nice we no longer have exceptional Stallions and what is going to happen in a few years when they are to far back in pedigree to be of any good. Surely there must still be an Oncidium Stallion left some where. Fairs Fair at least

[Omarsharif 0]

Sire of the winners of 50 races and £472,685.

Listed Winners

BOMAR (IRE) (Galizzz (IRE): Land Rover Svenskt Derby, Jagersro, L.).

COQUET (GB) (Nashwan (USA): Height of Fashion Stakes, Goodwood, L., Mount Nelson EBF Montrose Stakes, Newmarket, L.).

Group Placed

Cavaleiro (IRE) (Alhaarth (IRE): third in Betfred Derby Trial Stakes, Lingfield Park, Gr.3).

Listed Placed

Alla Speranza (GB) (Selkirk (USA): second in Eyrefield Stakes, zzzpardstown, L.).

Hyder (FR) (Sadler's Wells (USA): second in Premio Giuseppe de Montel, Milan, L.).

Percy Jackson (GB) (Hernando (FR): second in Oppenheim-Rennen, Cologne, L.).

Slim Pickings if you ask me.....

Pretty damn good considering 50 1st crop foals and 30 2nd crop foals.

We are only half way through his second season.

[Henri Jooste 40]

Indy King has had another three winners in the past ten days, two in the USA and another in Canada.

Whispered Legend (USA) 2008 1st Fort Erie Claiming 1300m

A'Intyoudreamin (USA) 2009 1st Arlington Park Claiming 1200m

Cachita (USA) 2008 1st Suffolk Claiming 1200m.

Over the past two weeks the local sons of Redoutes Choice all sired winners.

Nadeem sired two winners, on Aug 21 he sired maiden winner Raging To Win and on Aug 17 Bengal Angel.

Coats Choice had two winners, Dueled had 4 individual winners and Fast N Famous one winner during the same period.

[Barmer 0]

Indy King has had another three winners in the past ten days, two in the USA and another in Canada.

Whispered Legend (USA) 2008 1st Fort Erie Claiming 1300m

A'Intyoudreamin (USA) 2009 1st Arlington Park Claiming 1200m

Cachita (USA) 2008 1st Suffolk Claiming 1200m.

Oy! This is Percy's thread - go open your own.

[Henri Jooste 40]

Barmer you asked in an earlier post

Compared to .....?

All I am doing is providing some comparisons so there is no need to get precious.

Well as I stated earlier in this thread Sir Percy is doing well but then so too are other sires who are doing arguably as well without getting the attention, no harm in a little balance now is there ? Barmer everytime a response is posted on this particular thread it can only be good for the profile of Sir Percy and for those who have progeny of his, but if you like I can start another thread and dilute and divert the traffic.

For the record Iffraaj has sired 7 individual winners in the last two weeks two of whom won in New Zealand. Iffraaj also sired the following stakes performers in the past two weeks Zoola 3rd Tipperary S (L), Ergoz 3rd Fatih Sultan Mehmet (L) and Cai Shen 4th (GR2 Ascot Summer Mile )

[kmhood 1]

I would like to see a thread for each stallion which is doing well, as these are the benchmark of their careers as stallions. You would find that most of the breeders who frequent this site would certainly be interested in WHO is producing the winners, helped of course by their consorts. I now only use proven stallions so am really interested in statistics. Kept them coming.

I have loaded both Nadeem and Indy King on my Arion horse tracker. Nadeem is certainly producing his share of winners with runners all over the place. He must have had good size books whilst in Australia. Indy King's are also looking good. How many foals did he sire in the years he stood at stud in USA.

[Henri Jooste 40]

Kay, Indy King stood in the USA for five seasons and produced just 143 foals

2005 - 24

2006 - 40

2007 – 42

2008 - 18

2009 - 19

Total 143

Nadeem has had three crops of racing age. His oldest are now 4years old

08/09 - 104

09/10 - 63

10/11 - 31

Total 198

[Barmer 0]

Kay, Indy King stood in the USA for five seasons and produced just 143 foals

2005 - 24

2006 - 40

2007 – 42

2008 - 18

2009 - 19

Total 143

Nadeem has had three crops of racing age. His oldest are now 4years old

08/09 - 104

09/10 - 63

10/11 - 31

Total 198

So we're not comparing apples with apples - Sir Percy is only part way through his second season compared with Indy King's 6th. This is why his stats are impressive with only one and a half small books representing him.

[Henri Jooste 40]

So we're not comparing apples with apples - Sir Percy is only part way through his second season compared with Indy King's 6th. This is why his stats are impressive with only one and a half small books representing him.

Barmer if you do your homework you will find that both Nadeem and Indy King would be tracking with similar results at the same stage of their respective careers. Compared with both Sir Percy and Nadeem you will find that Indy King has had less opportunity in both quality of mares and numbers of foals produced.

I see that Sir Percy’s second accredited stakes winner Bomar was beaten 6 lengths into second place by Old Pal in the Norwegian Derby. The winner Old Pal was registering his second victory from 8 starts. A winner at his second attempt in Germany at 2 years Old Pal followed up with a 5th placing at Baden Baden . Old Pal subsequently transferred this season as a three year old to the United Arab Emirates where he ran 12th, 10th and 12th before trying his luck in Norway where he ran third in the Norway 2000 Guineas (Bomar ran 6th) before capturing the Norsk Derby by six lengths over Bomar.

[Barmer 0]

Unlike you Henri, I have no vested interest in promoting any one stallion over another, but as a breeder I base my choice of stallion on Type, Performance, Pedigree, Progeny, value for money and (cover your ears) sales potential of the foal. So far Sir Percy and Nadeem fill those criteria.

It remains to be seen how all three of the stallions mentioned will perform in New Zealand.

I must add however that the only Indy King foal that Ive seen so far was a most impressive individual.

[Omarsharif 0]

Barmer if you do your homework you will find that both Nadeem and Indy King would be tracking with similar results at the same stage of their respective careers. Compared with both Sir Percy and Nadeem you will find that Indy King has had less opportunity in both quality of mares and numbers of foals produced.

I see that Sir Percy’s second accredited stakes winner Bomar was beaten 6 lengths into second place by Old Pal in the Norwegian Derby. The winner Old Pal was registering his second victory from 8 starts. A winner at his second attempt in Germany at 2 years Old Pal followed up with a 5th placing at Baden Baden . Old Pal subsequently transferred this season as a three year old to the United Arab Emirates where he ran 12th, 10th and 12th before trying his luck in Norway where he ran third in the Norway 2000 Guineas (Bomar ran 6th) before capturing the Norsk Derby by six lengths over Bomar.

Now now Henri...no need to try and 'dilute' the performance of a rival stallions progeny. Who the hell knows, maybe Old Pal had a cold over in UAE or Bomar had a cold in his last run. It is frivolous to try compare.

[Rich 1]

not taking sides one way or another but here are some stats from RISA website via equineline.com for comparison....sires that have been mentioned

Indy King 137f 92st (67%) 64wnrs (47%) 3SW (2%) AEI 1.07

Iffraaj 413f 212st (51%) 120wnrs (29%) 6SW (1%) AEI 1.11

Nadeem 198f 93st (47%) 46wnrs (23%) 5SW (3%) AEI 1.04

Duelled 266f 95st (36%) 42wnrs (16%) 2SW (1%) AEI 2.03

Sir Percy 146f 52st (36%) 31wnrs (21%) 2SW (1%) AEI 0.76

[kmhood 1]

So at this stage, Nadeem has 3% SW which is quite impressive compared to a lot of stallions in the stallion register. Do you know Richie what timeform rating he had please? Some of the stallions have quite impressive ones which gives a good indication as to their racing ability. A lot of stallions in the register do not put these ratings when really they should. For instance, Zacinto who is standing at Inglewood, near ChCh has a very impressive time for rating. Both Golan and his brother Tartan Bearer have big time form ratings.