RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Sheriff

Paul Harris

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adjudged bankrupt.

Sad to see but in these difficult times it's no surprise.

The only trainers surviving are those with alternative revenue streams, or those who have a large capital base to begin with, and NZTR seem determined to exacerbate this problem by lumping additional costs onto the already financially stretched trainers.

Agree with your reasoning on why this may have occurred Sheriff,but why name the poor guy.Just telling us another trainer had hit the wall would have done,without more embarrassment to the man as he faces hardship with business.Maybe you could set up a page named,"Name and Shame" and let loose with yr names of unfortunate business people.To me zzz,you are crawling in the gutter if you think this is news to the cafers,just kicking a man while he's down. he

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Paul had a nice winner midweek at Riccarton and he has been a solid battler for a long time, even struggling with not the best of health of late.

This larger than life character I am sure will bounce back.

Well said zzz and all others who offer their support at a time where it will no doubt be appreciated.

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Agree with your reasoning on why this may have occurred Sheriff,but why name the poor guy.Just telling us another trainer had hit the wall would have done,without more embarrassment to the man as he faces hardship with business.Maybe you could set up a page named,"Name and Shame" and let loose with yr names of unfortunate business people.To me zzz,you are crawling in the gutter if you think this is news to the cafers,just kicking a man while he's down. he

Paul Harris name is stated in The Press on Saturday. No problem with sheriff only repeating what most already know. Takes away doubt and guessing as to WHOM it might be.

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Well actually I was trying to do the exact opposite and present the facts in an accurate way but at the same time offering a plausible explanation as to how the situation could have developed.

There's no gossip, no blame put on Paul, just the bare facts.

Anyway going bankrupt is not a crime, it happens, I should know!! but it's how you handle it and bounce back that is the measure of you as a person and I wish Paul all the best in that regard.

As the Mexican saying goes "it's not the falling off the horse that matters, it's the getting back on", and you'd hope that Paul will be getting back on real soon.

Thanks Sheriff,well put.

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I didn't see any malice in him being named.

This is an industry on the edge and he is only the tip of the iceberg, so to speak.

This will cause problems for southern racing as well, as he provided quite a lot of the "product" for several meetings.

This whole shambles is a bloody disgrace really. Times are tough, but management and governance has been pathetic for several years now.

There is absolutely no light at the end of this tunnel and how anyone with a choice would remain in the industry is hard to comprehend. How is any young trainer ever going to source sufficient funds to get started? What bank would lend money to someone to get started or expand.

With stakes as terrible as they are there just has to be some form of appearance money introduced.

To pinch a phrase that may have been used before, "if SI racing is strong, NZ racing is strong".

The sad thing is, its not bloody rocket science to try and sort things out. Start with the South and if it works try it up North.

zzz's bloody tea lady could come up with more ideas than are being tried at present.

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Paul is a great bloke ..but the industry captains have let him, and the industry, down ... stakes are crap .. costs escalating out of proprtion to potential returns ... it is a mess ..and the clock is ticking for the finale ... just so sad ... leadership is urgentl needed .. not the ongoing BS junkets

Harness is similar strive ..yet the Dishlickers surviving well ...

Leadership please

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Hes been I trouble for a while I think......its not easy.

Whats the difference between whats happened to Harris vs what happened to Richard Otto - was he adjudged bankrupt or is that wrong?

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agree with sheriff, supplementary income. its the only way alot of people survive in this game, unless as you say, have a large capital base to begin with.

When its good it good, but when its tough its ruddy tough.

When even the ones with numbers are struggly and people who have to been training for many years and giving up, makes you think.

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Agree with your reasoning on why this may have occurred Sheriff,but why name the poor guy.Just telling us another trainer had hit the wall would have done,without more embarrassment to the man as he faces hardship with business.Maybe you could set up a page named,"Name and Shame" and let loose with yr names of unfortunate business people.To me zzz,you are crawling in the gutter if you think this is news to the cafers,just kicking a man while he's down. he

There is no shame in being adjudged bankrupt. Some of the greatest entrepreneurs the world has ever known have had that experience in their careers. The news is public knowledge anyway.

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The bigger the boom - the bigger the bust.

I haven't followed things that closely but from where I sit Paul Harris seemed to be getting plenty of winners from what must have been some very big numbers in work.

Unless he trimmed the infrastructure that must have been in place to do those numbers quickly enough, it was most likely going to end in tears.

In this day and age where most people can afford the necessities but fewer can afford the niceties, it's going to be bloody tough to keep existing owners interested, let alone attracting new ones.

I'm not sure what the highly paid 'smart bastards' at the top have planned to pull this game out of the mire, but unless something happens soon, the only light at the end of the tunnel will be a freight train bearing down to crush the lot :(

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It would be interesting to know who the petitioning creditor was (ACC, for example?) or whether Harris filed for bankruptcy himself.

I would say Harris is just the tip of the iceberg. If trainers like him and Richard Otto, who both have/had the numbers, can't keep their heads above water, how can the rest survive?

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Very sad to hear about Paul and his problems. A larger than life bloke who is one of the industry's real characters. I am sure the only reason he has hit this financial crisis is because other people OWE HIM MONEY. I can't blame vets or trucking firms for taking this action but the same restrictions must be put on owners who fail to pay their accounts. NZTR should bar any of their horses from racing or trialling no matter whose stable they are in. Trainers would have endless stories of these people who go from one stable to the next and never pay their way. NZTR need to get proavtive to protect the professional industry participants by licencing all owners and in doing so force the to comply with a code of conduct, especially fiscal. What say you ?

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- but I presume those debts were for PH's own horses? - I know that when my horses are with the trainer, the trucking and vet bills are sent direct to me - not via the trainer.

But I guess this varies - some trainers pay eg. farriers and add it to the training a/c - with others the farrier a/c comes separately (direct to owner).

Nevertheless - the fact remains - creditors have called time.

I wish PH well - esp considering his health issues. I hope he has good support to help him through it all.

A lot of ppl in business suffer this fate (and bounce back) - but it probably also rings a few warning bells with respect to our particular industry ...

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Very sad to hear about Paul and his problems. A larger than life bloke who is one of the industry's real characters. I am sure the only reason he has hit this financial crisis is because other people OWE HIM MONEY. I can't blame vets or trucking firms for taking this action but the same restrictions must be put on owners who fail to pay their accounts. NZTR should bar any of their horses from racing or trialling no matter whose stable they are in. Trainers would have endless stories of these people who go from one stable to the next and never pay their way. NZTR need to get proavtive to protect the professional industry participants by licencing all owners and in doing so force the to comply with a code of conduct, especially fiscal. What say you ?

I know what you mean Peter re owners not paying the fee's to trainers. I recall a conversation I had with Paul Harris' late father Ray not long before he passed away. He said he had horses in his back paddock that the owners owed him close to 40k in fees. Too soft to let it get that big but............. it does happen.

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Very sad to hear about Paul and his problems. A larger than life bloke who is one of the industry's real characters. I am sure the only reason he has hit this financial crisis is because other people OWE HIM MONEY. I can't blame vets or trucking firms for taking this action but the same restrictions must be put on owners who fail to pay their accounts. NZTR should bar any of their horses from racing or trialling no matter whose stable they are in. Trainers would have endless stories of these people who go from one stable to the next and never pay their way. NZTR need to get proavtive to protect the professional industry participants by licencing all owners and in doing so force the to comply with a code of conduct, especially fiscal. What say you ?

Owners in the Carbine Lounge having double whiskeys - trainer in the public bar having pony beers - it happens

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I didn't see any malice in him being named.

This is an industry on the edge and he is only the tip of the iceberg, so to speak.

This will cause problems for southern racing as well, as he provided quite a lot of the "product" for several meetings.

This whole shambles is a bloody disgrace really. Times are tough, but management and governance has been pathetic for several years now.

There is absolutely no light at the end of this tunnel and how anyone with a choice would remain in the industry is hard to comprehend. How is any young trainer ever going to source sufficient funds to get started? What bank would lend money to someone to get started or expand.

With stakes as terrible as they are there just has to be some form of appearance money introduced.

To pinch a phrase that may have been used before, "if SI racing is strong, NZ racing is strong".

The sad thing is, its not bloody rocket science to try and sort things out. Start with the South and if it works try it up North.

zzz's bloody tea lady could come up with more ideas than are being tried at present.

you well know zzz does not have a Tea Lady. Molly is the tea lady from the Racing board and she has been quiet for sometime but like any good volcano there are a few rumblings in Petone since that good bloke Bill Colgan moved on and the new fella took over.

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There is no shame in being adjudged bankrupt. Some of the greatest entrepreneurs the world has ever known have had that experience in their careers. The news is public knowledge anyway.

It is public knowledge and as zzz has said it is not the falling off the horse that counts it is the getting back on. Paul is a good horseman and he will be back and look at zzz ..he got back on and look at him now

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I wish Paul and his family all the best.

Paul and I never always saw eye to eye when I had lease one to him, but I will say this at least he always had time to listen even when I had a moan at him.

Paul you did a great job with the lad and the results were exciting and wonderful, thankyou so much.

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Don't forget though that bankruptcy doesn't happen overnight in this country like it can in others. Banks & financiers generally give a lot of opportunity for re-structuring to those who want to find a way through this. Some do yet still go down, others close their minds, don't open their mail and hope it'll all go away. I have no idea of this situation but he would have been in financial trouble for some considerable time before the boom was finally lowered. In the end you're only limited by your potential so there's every chance he'll bounce back if that's what he wants. Three years goes pretty quick.

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Don't forget though that bankruptcy doesn't happen overnight in this country like it can in others. Banks & financiers generally give a lot of opportunity for re-structuring to those who want to find a way through this. Some do yet still go down, others close their minds, don't open their mail and hope it'll all go away. I have no idea of this situation but he would have been in financial trouble for some considerable time before the boom was finally lowered. In the end you're only limited by your potential so there's every chance he'll bounce back if that's what he wants. Three years goes pretty quick.

Agree. Get better and get back on the horse Paul. All the best to you, Donna and the boys.

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Regardless of the industry...in tough times a viable business model has no room for luxuries.

Everyone else considers racing a horse a luxury...so why do trainers continue to take shares in horses merely to fill boxes?

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Regardless of the industry...in tough times a viable business model has no room for luxuries.

Everyone else considers racing a horse a luxury...so why do trainers continue to take shares in horses merely to fill boxes?

and sometimes the owners don't pay ........... who does .... in desparation

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