2010 Telegraph Handicap (group I)

[Zimmo 0]

Your stating Wealth Princess the next big thing?

That took alot of thought

MMMMMMMM... just a bit more than most of your thoughtless coments. Now go and watch the race again, but this time, get uncle Steve to watch it with you, you never know, you just might learn something. :eek:

[chaye_d 0]

It was still a good race despite the track. I backed Wealth Princess myself as I really thought they were all in the same boat in terms of running over the slow ground. She certainly didn

[sunlineboy 131]

I think you missed my point Zimmo.

Wealth Princess will go out at $1.40 in its next start(depending on grade), so it doesnt take a genius to state what you did.

[Zimmo 0]

I think you missed my point Zimmo.

Wealth Princess will go out at $1.40 in its next start(depending on grade), so it doesnt take a genius to state what you did.

EXACTLY my point !

[Lloyd Vivian 742]

hey vivian give it up,how do you know that vonusti,wall street or wealth princess would not have run 1.07 or better if they had fast track? Answer me this would the above mentioned sprinters have won the south island races coup align did,barring 1000m squib races.If not you are delusional.Ask will coup align win sprinter of the year,horse of the year,if not,why not?

Hi Nahla

I have never said at any stage that the three horses you mention were not capable of running 1.07 - I simply pointed out that on the day, only two had done it up till that point. And really, the whole point of my argument is that the soft track effectively stopped ANY horse running 1.07 or anything near it!!! THAT is what I'm upset about! It was a NON-EVENT in determinig who's the fastest horse in the country, and that was disappointing.

I don't think for one minute that Vonusti is a slug] to show their best.

We won't know now, how he compared against Gold Trail for example ; he never went a yard in it and finished last. Did that make him the slowest horse in the field? Doubt it! Likewise; I would have loved to see how CA went head to head against Mufhasa on ground that suited them both. He finished in front of him on a soft track - but could he do that on a fast track? We'll never know.

Anyway, I remain firmly of the opinion that CA is absolutely top class because it doesn't matter where you run 55.6 for 1000m, or 1.07 for 1200m; if you can do it at all you are pretty special! I just hope he gets a chance to really prove himself against the best at some stage.

All I say in response to your question about Sprinter of the Year is this: he has been undefeated up to 1300m on good tracks apart from two early runs as a 2yo. Two jockeys have commented that he is probably the fastest horse they've ever sat on. He has run times VERY few are capable of over sprint distances. Personally, I think on a hard track, based on how he performed on an unsuitable soft track, he must have gone extremely close to winning the Telegraph against an awesome field. Had he won - I would have had him Sprinter of the Year. As it is, his chance has gone for this season, I'd say.

[Centrofold 147]

Hi Nahla

I have never said at any stage that the three horses you mention were not capable of running 1.07 - I simply pointed out that on the day, only two had done it up till that point. And really, the whole point of my argument is that the soft track effectively stopped ANY horse running 1.07 or anything near it!!! THAT is what I'm upset about! It was a NON-EVENT in determinig who's the fastest horse in the country, and that was disappointing.

I don't think for one minute that Vonusti is a slug] to show their best.

We won't know now, how he compared against Gold Trail for example ; he never went a yard in it and finished last. Did that make him the slowest horse in the field? Doubt it! Likewise; I would have loved to see how CA went head to head against Mufhasa on ground that suited them both. He finished in front of him on a soft track - but could he do that on a fast track? We'll never know.

Anyway, I remain firmly of the opinion that CA is absolutely top class because it doesn't matter where you run 55.6 for 1000m, or 1.07 for 1200m; if you can do it at all you are pretty special! I just hope he gets a chance to really prove himself against the best at some stage.

All I say in response to your question about Sprinter of the Year is this: he has been undefeated up to 1300m on good tracks apart from two early runs as a 2yo. Two jockeys have commented that he is probably the fastest horse they've ever sat on. He has run times VERY few are capable of over sprint distances. Personally, I think on a hard track, based on how he performed on an unsuitable soft track, he must have gone extremely close to winning the Telegraph against an awesome field. Had he won - I would have had him Sprinter of the Year. As it is, his chance has gone for this season, I'd say.

Totally in agreement with what you have said LV.

In respsonse to what you said about Mufhasa and Coup Align (being the only two horses who had run 1.07 PRIOR to the Telegraph). Yes, I too would have liked to have seen them head to head on a good track.

I always felt the weight that Mufhasa caried would probably go against him though regardless of the track conditions.

As they say next year is another year.

For some of us the Telegraph on a good track is something we hope for and look forward to.

[abit roughhouse 0]

Coup Align has been nominated for the $S1 million KrisFlyer International Sprint (1200m) in Singapore on May 16. He will need to be 'selected' to get in the field.

courtesy of today ODT.

ps. is there ANY suitible 1200m races left in nz this season?

[spongebob 0]

why did the myers girl get 2 weeks suspension and $1200 fine for interference but the horse kept third place?

[Zimmo 0]

why did the myers girl get 2 weeks suspension and $1200 fine for interference but the horse kept third place?

There was no enquirey.

[spongebob 0]

cheers mate

[franky4fingers 0]

Well said Centrofold.

There were only two horses in that field that have run 1.07 for 1200m [Mufhasa and Coup Align for the record], and they finished side by side in 6th & 7th place. I was anticipating the clash between them and the Aussies on a fast track for weeks!

As it turned out it was simply not a true indication of sprinting ability due to the track. The opportunity to rate our best against some half-decent Aussie sprinters on our own turf won't happen again in a hurry - which only adds to the 'aaaaggh' factor!

and Darryl - ask Sticko if he thinks Vonusti would blow Mufhasa away on a good track like he did on Saturday!

Coup Align ran 1.07 at Riccarton for crying out loud. Hardly puts him in an elite group. 2yos can do it

[Lloyd Vivian 742]

Coup Align ran 1.07 at Riccarton for crying out loud. Hardly puts him in an elite group. 2yos can do it

You talkin' crazy Frankee! I KNOW you not really that silly....

[franky4fingers 0]

You talkin' crazy Frankee! I KNOW you not really that silly....

http://www.nzracing.co.nz/Meetings/MeetingResults.aspx/35540/6#raceLink6

[Lloyd Vivian 742]

http://www.nzracing.co.nz/Meetings/MeetingResults.aspx/35540/6#raceLink6

My point was that to say 1.07 for 1200m is nothing to write home about is plain crazy!

Start a list Franky, of all the horses that did it last year for a start - anywhere!!

Tell me when you need more postage stamps...

[franky4fingers 0]

The best horses don't race at Riccarton or Trentham regularly so the point you are trying to make is futile.

These are only two places that this sort of time can be run because of the shape of the track. This discounts the northern horses bar the one time they do venture south to Trentham for a 1200m race - the Telegraph. In last years running, the first 6 - 8 horses home would have run 1.07 something.

The fact remains that Coup Align is a seriously limited racehorse which unless he gets a fast, downhill 1200m he will never be a group 1 winner. If he really is as good as you claim, i'm sure he will venture north to contest the WFA sprint at Te Rapa? Then on to the Stradbroke perhaps?

[Zimmo 0]

The best horses don't race at Riccarton or Trentham regularly so the point you are trying to make is futile.

Frankie...you have lost the plot !!!

[Lloyd Vivian 742]

The best horses don't race at Riccarton or Trentham regularly so the point you are trying to make is futile.

These are only two places that this sort of time can be run because of the shape of the track. This discounts the northern horses bar the one time they do venture south to Trentham for a 1200m race - the Telegraph. In last years running, the first 6 - 8 horses home would have run 1.07 something.

The fact remains that Coup Align is a seriously limited racehorse which unless he gets a fast, downhill 1200m he will never be a group 1 winner. If he really is as good as you claim, i'm sure he will venture north to contest the WFA sprint at Te Rapa? Then on to the Stradbroke perhaps?

Franky I credited you with being a better judge...

So of all the 1200m races at Riccarton [where it is apparently so easy to reel off a 1.07 time] last season, how many horses actually did it? My guess would be you'd only need one hand to tally them up..and by your own admission only the 'best horses' would be capable of it anyway right??? Which is exactly what I've been saying....

I would doubt very much that Coup Align would come all the way to Te Rapa for a 1400m race Frank. He is probably the fastest 1000m - 1200m horse in the country [only Mufhasa of those currently racing, spring to mind as a real opponent over 1200m] and I certainly don't see him as a danger in a 1400m race at the top level, although he has stretched to 1355m in lesser company. But SO WHAT? Does that make him any less of a sprinter over 1000 -1200m? Plenty of top Ozzie sprinters only run the 1200m trip - [ie Gold Trail for one] - and I certainly haven't been talking CA up as anything other than a freak over the short-course distances.

1400m and 1600m are not a true sprint distance. Look around the world and you'll see the best G1 sprints are 1200m or less and run at the time of year when good going is expected. So your point about him being only average because he wouldn't win the Stradbroke is completely spurious. ALL the best sprinters need a fast track to show their best and run a really fast time - why is that a negative in CA's case?

THe Telegraph's winning time this year was SLOW Franky, for a Telegraph especially. Victory Dias and Seachange would have been nearly 15 lengths in front by comparison. Vonusti just LOVED the going and got the lollies. If it's soft at Te Rapa he could win that too - [he'll run about 1.22 which is what he's shown he's capable of to date] and if he goes to the Stradbroke and strikes a similar track he could do it again - but does that mean he's faster than Coup Align over 1200m on a fast track??? Of course not.

My point is still valid Franky; Coup Align is arguably the fastest horse in NZ over 1200m and it's a crying shame that rain and a mug track doctor combined to foil his crack at the 'big time'. I just hope he gets another chance to do it.

[franky4fingers 0]

If conditions are right on the day it doesn't take a star to run 1.07 at these tracks. Please tell me you understand this Lloyd. If not, here's an example from just over a month ago which might help...

Go back to the meeting at Riccarton on December 18th. Dry day, hard track and guess what? Three 1200m races all run in 1.07, one of them was even a maiden! Wow, must be plenty of fast horses in the South Island aye?

Incidentally, what time did a rather ordinary rating 90 field run the 1200m at Trentham on Sat?

So when do we get to see Coup Align prove himself to be the freak you claim? Please don't tell me we have to wait another year and hope for a dry track...

[Lloyd Vivian 742]

So when do we get to see Coup Align prove himself to be the freak you claim? Please don't tell me we have to wait another year and hope for a dry track...

Not another year - just a dry track. Perhaps we'd better agree to differ about him until he proves himself one way or the other on the track.

Cheers.

[Chris McQuaid 0]

If conditions are right on the day it doesn't take a star to run 1.07 at these tracks. Please tell me you understand this Lloyd. If not, here's an example from just over a month ago which might help...

Go back to the meeting at Riccarton on December 18th. Dry day, hard track and guess what? Three 1200m races all run in 1.07, one of them was even a maiden! Wow, must be plenty of fast horses in the South Island aye?...

You conveniently forgot to mention that there was a howling north-westerly gale on the day which, because of the shape of the track, knocks anything up to two seconds off the times they would normally run.

[franky4fingers 0]

You conveniently forgot to mention that there was a howling north-westerly gale on the day which, because of the shape of the track, knocks anything up to two seconds off the times they would normally run.

That's exactly my point Chris. Given the right conditions on these tracks average horses can record fast times. Therefore using time as measure of a horses ability at these particular tracks can be very misleading. Would you agree?

[Centrofold 147]

I think I get you. Ignore the times on the Riccarton track because the wind behind the horses can shorten their time over 1200m by a couple of seconds. So really you are saying that they are more like 1.09 horses.

Ok that understood. In the Railway, Coup Align from a wide barrier took the lead and stayed there for a good portion of the 1200m. So he must have had a Riccarton draft up his arse? (if you will excuse my french)

Clearly CA is a speedy horse despite the clock - Right? Vonusti had soft track form. The track favoured him on the day.

Now given that we do not have a crystal ball lets give CA the benefit of the doubt and wait and see how good he is.

[Lloyd Vivian 742]

That's exactly my point Chris. Given the right conditions on these tracks average horses can record fast times. Therefore using time as measure of a horses ability at these particular tracks can be very misleading. Would you agree?

Yes Franky - it COULD be misleading] something a bit special

b] or a 'fluke' due to extenuating circumstances.

I think in CA's case we can agree that his 1:07 was not a b] as he has gone to bigger and better things and as I've said, recorded three exceptionally fast times over 1000m also.

Anyway, you sucked me back into this one again but I promise I'll leave it after this as I suggested last time and we'll wait and see aye?.

Cheers!

[Kloppite 317]

Yes Franky - it COULD be misleading]

Yep and the day he ran one of those quick 1000m races, Vonusti was just over a length away, with 2.5kgs more weight, and closing fast (having covered more ground).

Fast enough to suggest that over 1200m on a good track, at equal weights, he would beat Coup Align.

[hedley 1,900]

...Now given that we do not have a crystal ball lets give CA the benefit of the doubt and wait and see how good he is.

..but i and others will choose to envisage how good he and Others are, choosing to appraise their harmonics, having observed their actions and locomotions and demenours Too..so vital., and that's how one 'catches the early worm'..backs them when thought to be suited, and to let-them-have-the-run when deemed Not., but Much Other to deduce too, at and as each start's juncture and it's efforts are quantified in of the individual too.

[according to my 'science'..KILOTON registered the biggest aerobic gathering..and i'd say COUP ALIGN was the most 'detracted' action and therefore, locomotion..Ominous in the "Drat'n'DOUBLE-Drat!" that the inconsistancy and tractibilty of TRENTHAM's arena Was as a 'gymnasium of gathering'.]