THE TORCH 665 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 Stop making excuses for Coup Align, Vonusti was way too good Yep. And the $26 offered on Friday was beautiful Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelseacol 2,488 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 the best horse won,vonusti not a fan of wet tracks.But watching the replay many times how unlucky and what a top run by wall street. top effort from Vonusti - interestingly enough it's wet track form is ok so it may of suited it better than some. CA will keep and it was a top effort from it I thought on a track which definitely did not suit it. As you say Wall St was huge and provided it has pulled up ok looks a good thing in the Thorndon. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd Vivian 742 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 Stop making excuses for Coup Align, Vonusti was way too good Run the race again on a hard track and Coup Align would be paying $1.50 and Vonusti $10 - even in a match race! You can't tell me that tne winning trio comprise the three fastest sprinters in NZ at the moment!!! You HAVE to be joking. The wet track was the ruination of a fantastic race and the winning time reflects that. Nearly three seconds off the race record - that's fifteen lengths. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
studgirl 0 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 Congr8s to all connections involved with Vonusti...Fab win & well deserved.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kloppite 314 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 Run the race again on a hard track and Coup Align would be paying $1.50 and Vonusti $10 - even in a match race! Surely you jest!? Take a look at the Pegasus Stakes at Riccarton back in early November on a good track. Coup Align had so much in its favour: - fresh-up over 1000m - Vonusti coming back from 1400m two weeks earlier and having a hit-out for the big mile - Coup Align getting 2.5kgs and Coup Align only beat him by 1.25 lengths, with Vonusti closing fast. Good track or not, over 1200m Vonusti is a far superior horse to Coup Align. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrofold 147 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 Surely you jest!? Take a look at the Pegasus Stakes at Riccarton back in early November on a good track. Coup Align had so much in its favour: - fresh-up over 1000m - Vonusti coming back from 1400m two weeks earlier and having a hit-out for the big mile - Coup Align getting 2.5kgs and Coup Align only beat him by 1.25 lengths, with Vonusti closing fast. Good track or not, over 1200m Vonusti is a far superior horse to Coup Align. Give Coup Align a break for heavens sake. He is a year younger but has won more races that Vonusti has. Not that I mean any disrespect to Vonusti. (I backed him for a place) Now I am not one to make excuses (the race was what it was) BUT it would most likely have been a different result had the track been good instead of slow. The track was the undoing of some very good proven fast 1200m sprinters. 1.09 is nothing to be proud of in the Telegraph but a win is still a win despite it. So! I repeat - I am not knocking Vonusti's win. No doubt that Wall Street is a deserved favourite for the Thordon Mile. Then that is another thread and another debate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turnip. 0 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 Run the race again on a good track and see what happens old son. If you read my post I said Vonusti (and Noel) deserved the win, probably would have won on a good track as well, but Coup Align just never handled the track, he will win a good sprint race no doubt. Wall Street was unlucky but was never going to beat Vonusti, just what the hell was Wall Streets rider trying to do, there was NO gap for him inside Vonusti, he cost the horse a placing. Weather today in Otaki...... like the group.....wet wet wet. Zimmo you watching another race or what! Did some jockey get time for flatning Wall Street!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kloppite 314 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 Give Coup Align a break for heavens sake. He is a year younger but has won more races that Vonusti has. Not that I mean any disrespect to Vonusti. (I backed him for a place) Now I am not one to make excuses (the race was what it was) BUT it would most likely have been a different result had the track been good instead of slow. The track was the undoing of some very good proven fast 1200m sprinters. 1.09 is nothing to be proud of in the Telegraph but a win is still a win despite it. So! I repeat - I am not knocking Vonusti's win. No doubt that Wall Street is a deserved favourite for the Thordon Mile. Then that is another thread and another debate. ] I have nothing against Coup Align. I just think Vonusti is a much better horse, and was simply responding to a claim that on a hard track Coup Align should be at $1.50 vs Vonusti's $10. The fact that Coup Align has won more races is irrelevant - look at where he won them, and what he beat, compared to Vonusti. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunlineboy 131 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 Zimmo was watching the race on a firm track in his head. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd Vivian 742 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 Surely you jest!? Good track or not, over 1200m Vonusti is a far superior horse to Coup Align. Surely YOU jest???!!! Vonusti: 3 wins @ 1200m. Fastest time 1.09.3[yesterday] 1 win over 1000m time: 1.00.77 Coup Align: 3 wins @ 1200 [and 1 @ 1250m] fastest time 1.07.7 3 wins over 1000m] but 1:09.3 is a long way off the Telegraph record. He is not the short course sprinter that Coup Align is and never will be. Neither will Coup Align be the 1400m -1600m horse that Vonusti is either. However, the Telegraph is not the Thorndon; it's supposed to be the toughest test of our best sprinters over 1200m. It just disappoints me that he and a few others never got their chance to really 'strut their stuff' on a hard track which you reasonably expect in late January. If it was just rain you shrug your shoulders - but when irrigation is added to the mix unneccesarily, it is worse! So all credit to Team Carter, Harris and Vonusti - but please no more talk that he is a superior 1200m horse to Coup Align on good tracks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kloppite 314 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 Coup Align would be paying $1.50 and Vonusti $10 - even in a match race! show me the bookie who would offer $1.50 and $10 in a (two horse) match-race. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd Vivian 742 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 show me the bookie who would offer $1.50 and $10 in a (two horse) match-race. I'm no bookie [and yes, OK, that was an exaggeration to make a point ] - but it would depend of course on the two horses and the distance: what would you offer if it was Sunline and Bonecrusher over 1200m???? I'm not trying to knock Vonusti - he's a real good horse and NGH is one of my favourite jockeys [although he probably isn't Jeff Lynd's at the moment!!!] - but for you to say he's "a far superior horse to Coup Align over 1200m on good tracks" is clearly your personal like for the horse getting in the way of the facts. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kloppite 314 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 Vonusti: 3 wins @ 1200m. Fastest time 1.09.3[yesterday] 1 win over 1000m time: 1.00.77 Coup Align: 3 wins @ 1200 [and 1 @ 1250m] fastest time 1.07.7 3 wins over 1000m] Mate, that's a pretty ordinary piece of analysis. You can't compare times unless you reference to other times at the same meeting. Vonusti's 1000m win was on a slow track at Taupo when they were running 1.14 - 1.15 for 1200m. Coup Align's 1000m wins were all on good tracks, therefore a comparison. Just watch the Pegasus again. Vonusti was giving 2.5kgs, coming back from 1400m to 1000m, against a fresh Coup Align and only finished 1.25 lengths from Coup Align. Forget the times they've posted. Over 1200m on a good track at equal weights (as they were yesterday), Vonusti wins! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrofold 147 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 Not only can Coup Align run 1200m in a faster time as has been stated. Prior to the Telegraph Coup Align had earnt more stake money. So yes, let us not debate which is the classier horse. Thanks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrofold 147 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 Coup Align a 4 year old and carried the same weight as Vonusti yesterday whom I beleive is a 5 year old. So I am sorry your weight analyse does not carry any weight in the debate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kloppite 314 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 Not only can Coup Align run 1200m in a faster time as has been stated Great, another timeform guru! Prior to the Telegraph Coup Align had earnt more stake money. So what does that prove? After the Telegraph, Vonusti has earnt more stake money. How many times have they raced each other? Twice now? Vonusti beat it hands down yesterday, and had the Pegasus been over 1200m at equal weights, Vonusti would have beaten it then too. Coup Align is a very good South Island horse, and a Group 3 winner. Vonusti is a group 1 winner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kloppite 314 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 Coup Align a 4 year old and carried the same weight as Vonusti yesterday whom I beleive is a 5 year old. So I am sorry your weight analyse does not carry any weight in the debate. ] What does the 4 and 5 year old have to do with it? It was a handicap race, and yes they carried the same weight - very astute of you! When they ran in the Pegasus, Vonusti gave away 2.5kgs. All I'm saying is that at equal weights (which you have very astutely noted was the case yesterday), over 1200m, on any track, Vonusti wins. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crucible 0 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 Coup Align a 4 year old and carried the same weight as Vonusti yesterday whom I beleive is a 5 year old. So I am sorry your weight analyse does not carry any weight in the debate. ] What's your point? Beyond the age of 3, I don't think age makes a lot of difference to the weights at WFA. Besides the Telegraph is a handicap race. I'd quit now if I were you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrofold 147 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 I am sure someone will correct me if I am way off the mark here. Most people interested in the industry rate the Telegraph as the fastest run 1200m race in the country. That is what many people wanted to see. It's a tradition, most years. Is it not? Even Mr Carter said he was surprised that Vonusti won the race. So if he was surprised, why should other people not share that sentiment? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kloppite 314 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 I am sure someone will correct me if I am way off the mark here. Most people interested in the industry rate the Telegraph as the fastest run 1200m race in the country. That is what many people wanted to see. It's a tradition, most years. Is it not? Even Mr Carter said he was surprised that Vonusti won the race. So if he was surprised, why should other people not share that sentiment? If you knew I'd make that obversation, then why did you make such an inane comment? What's the tradition of the Telegraph got to do with whether Vonusti is a better horse than Coup Align? What's Mr Carter's surprise got to do with that question? I suspect Mr Carter would have been more surprised had Coup Align beaten his horse (wet track or good track). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrofold 147 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 What's your point? Beyond the age of 3, I don't think age makes a lot of difference to the weights at WFA. Besides the Telegraph is a handicap race. I'd quit now if I were you! I realise that the Telegraph is an open handicap race. The point I was trying to make was that I think a five year old has a slight advantage over a four year old carrying the same weight on yesterdays track. Funnily enough I don't think I would be alone in that thinking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrofold 147 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 If you knew I'd make that obversation, then why did you make such an inane comment? What's the tradition of the Telegraph got to do with whether Vonusti is a better horse than Coup Align? What's Mr Carter's surprise got to do with that question? I suspect Mr Carter would have been more surprised had Coup Align beaten his horse (wet track or good track). This conversation is getting pointless. I can't debate who Mr Carter thought would win the race. All I know is what I heard him say on TV yesterday. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kloppite 314 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 This conversation is getting pointless. I can't debate who Mr Carter thought would win the race. All I know is what I heard him say on TV yesterday. Yes, but just tell me what his comments have to do with a Vonusti - Coup Align comparison? That is all I have been discussing on this thread. Its getting pointless because you are going off on tangents like the tradition of the Telegraph and Mr Carter's surprise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunlineboy 131 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 What a bunch of South Island cry babies. Go back to racing at Wingatuituitui. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voorhees 1 Report post Posted January 24, 2010 He will be the top weight - Right? When was the last time a horse wearing the number one saddle cloth won the Telegraph? I am not saying the topweight can't win. When was the last time they did? Seachange Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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