Om jabbar 17 Report post Posted May 27, 2012 Does anyone have any comments about putting a Zabeel stallion over a Kingfisher Mill mare. One therefore has Sir Tristram and Lady Giselle close up on both sides of the pedigree, although sex balanced. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om jabbar 17 Report post Posted May 29, 2012 Where are the breeders out there. One puts up a topic for discussion and surprise surprise nothing. Was the thread title off putting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirteen 1 Report post Posted May 29, 2012 Does anyone have any comments about putting a Zabeel stallion over a Kingfisher Mill mare. One therefore has Sir Tristram and Lady Giselle close up on both sides of the pedigree, although sex balanced. No problem at all. Foal will be 3 x 3 to Lady Giselle. Any closer might be an issue, particularly if a colt. If it is a filly, my research clearly suggests that, whatever it does on the racetrack she could clearly improve upon in the breeding barn. The end result is there is no guarantees. Particularly given KM's poor record as a sire.I also believe he had a temperament problem. But from a theoretical standpoint, no issues. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grey Way 6 Report post Posted May 29, 2012 The mating is closer than discussed. 2x2 to full brother and sister. I have done 1/2 dozen matings in the past with close inbreeding but only 2x3 or 3x2. The results have been disappointing. Most were small and or had temperament issues. The resulting foals if fillies and bred from did not have good fertility, even a daughter of a mare that had 14 foals! Everyone should experiment for themselves and different lines may yield different results but I'm not keen to try again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om jabbar 17 Report post Posted May 29, 2012 Thanks Les the mare is quite highly strung although has had two very good natured foals. Now starting to move away from the Zabeel factor as temperament may become an issue. Was looking at Sufficeint with the possibility of some early speed over a dour KM mare. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirteen 1 Report post Posted May 29, 2012 The mating is closer than discussed. 2x2 to full brother and sister. I have done 1/2 dozen matings in the past with close inbreeding but only 2x3 or 3x2. The results have been disappointing. Most were small and or had temperament issues. The resulting foals if fillies and bred from did not have good fertility, even a daughter of a mare that had 14 foals! Everyone should experiment for themselves and different lines may yield different results but I'm not keen to try again. with the evidence you have at first hand with such close inbreeding. But the cross that is being discussed is definitely 3*3 which is close as you would want to go based on all the evidence I have read. And if you look at some of the great racetrack performers in the world that come from mediocre pedigrees you will find a significantly high percentage come form dams that are inbred 3*3. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tirteen 1 Report post Posted May 29, 2012 come from mediocre pedigrees you will find a significantly high percentage come form dams that are inbred 3*3. sorry that should have been 4*4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om jabbar 17 Report post Posted May 29, 2012 As she is certainly only a K3 mare thought I would play around with the pedigree. But may look at a stallion with two performance of his own and able to dilute out the possibility of producing a highly strung foal. Although I really do believe that that has a lot to do with how the foal is raised. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om jabbar 17 Report post Posted May 29, 2012 That should read two year old performance of his own. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby 160 Report post Posted May 29, 2012 What is the mares damline? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotchmist 1 Report post Posted May 29, 2012 play around with a complete outcross. Just about every foal born in NZ these days is linebred to god knows what. Dare to be different. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om jabbar 17 Report post Posted May 29, 2012 Louise the mares damline is Beau Zephyr, Bolak and Gabador, and scotchmist you are right and an outcross is what I am likely to pick. If I understand what an outcross that is. Is it any stallion whose pedigree is not included or appearing in the mare under discussion? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berri 2,131 Report post Posted May 29, 2012 when you bring inbreeding into play. Kingfisher Mill was a tall angular stallion (very much in the French Riverton mode) and he threw this type of animal. If you through Zabeel over that, what is the likelihood of getting a late maturing stayer with awkward angles(something Zabeel can throw)? That's what I call rolling the dice Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby 160 Report post Posted May 30, 2012 How old is the mare? I have just learnt a valuable lesson in having a mare who is older (will be 10) when her first foal arrives and although plenty of older mares have produced great horses it does put buyers off. Has she produced a foal for you before and are you breeding to race or to sell also what is your budget for the stallion? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om jabbar 17 Report post Posted May 30, 2012 She is a half sister to the good winter galloper Strapped for Cash. She is 7 and has had two colt foals by D'Cash. Happy to spend up to 7K. The progeny are always for sale whether that is at the yearling stage is another thing. I understand her first foal is going to the South Island sale as a two year old and her yearling is with me at home to go to Karaka. She is currently empty - what do you thing???? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om jabbar 17 Report post Posted May 30, 2012 Thanks Berri the family itself is very late maturing. As far as type goes she has been to D'Cash twice to produce two colts one average size ( the first foal ) and her current yearling who is a good size. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breeder 599 Report post Posted May 30, 2012 Have a look at Tiger Prawn --on paper he looks OK. May need to find out why he did not start racing until 4yrs old --don't want to add to the slow maturing aspect of the family ( going back abit on the female to Tilka --she was a really good handicap horse over sprint distances , I think.) Good luck. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruby 160 Report post Posted May 30, 2012 I'm an out and out fan of Lucky Unicorn and at $5k he is good value. His stock are coming through and leaving horses that run over a variety of distances. I am not experienced enough to say if there are any bad match ups with the pedigree but they could advise on this. Good luck Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Octagonal 0 Report post Posted June 1, 2012 Gallant Guru...fillys are showing promise, just need a couple of those cots/geldings to kick on. All show promise, 4k. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om jabbar 17 Report post Posted June 1, 2012 Thanks Octagonal I like him too but a little bit too far away from North Waikato. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...