Sir Percy

[Forrest 78]

Forrest wrote

Firstly this thread is about Sir Percy and the merits of his first crop, not a comparison between Sir Percy and Indy King. Now that you have decided to go there let’s have a look.

In terms of opportunity both in crop numbers and quality of mares served Sir Percy has had arguably the better chance ie 49 foals to the 24 produced by Indy King in his first season. In other words from their respective first crops Indy King has a 4% stakes winner ratio and Sir Percy 2%.

From that first crop of only 24 foals Indy King has had 18 runners 15 winners. Indy King bred Indy Joe who won on debut at 2 years by 71/4 lengths at Delaware Park beating Proud Kentuckian and Smooth It Over who both went on to become stakes horses. At three years Indy Joe won the Rumson Stakes and placed 3rd in the GR3 Jersey Shore Stakes. Besides Indy Joe that first crop has yielded a number of tough hard knocking winners of both sexes that train on including Dr Stick (7 wins), Indy O (6 wins) Indys Ahyoka (6 wins) and Sister Gal (5 wins).

From his second crop numbering 40 foals Indy King sired 30 runners of which 21 have won. This second crop yielded the very good filly Mindy Queen a winner of 10 raced including the Assinaboia Oaks in Canada by 9 lengths and the Prairie Rose Stakes in the USA. Mindy Queen also ran second in the Wishng Well Stakes beating Rinterval. Rinterval at her next start you may recall gave Zenyatta a torrid time fully extending the mighty mare to a neck victory in the GR1 Clement L Hirsch Handicap.

The second crop of Indy King also produced Su Majestad who is said to be best filly to race in the Dominican Republic in the last 30 years. This filly was a machine and IMHO would have competed with the best anywhere in the world. As a 2 year old she beat a field of 3 year old fillies by 14 lengths in a stakes race. Thats impressive even in the Dominican Republic.

Other multiple race winners from Indy Kings second crop include Royal Vessal (9 wins), I am The King (8 wins), Anad Queen (7 wins) Bay King (6 wins ) Crafty Sisterinlaw (5 wins) and King Tanner (5 wins).

The third crop of Indy King has thrown up Pleasant Prince who was one of the very best 3 year old horses of his year winning two regional Derbies (Ohio Derby GR3 and Oklahoma Derby) and runner up in the GR1 Florida Derby.

Considering the opportunity in terms of mare quality I think that it is not unreasonable to think that Indy King has done well enough so far. He has lived up to his impeccable pedigree and is showing that he has that elusive sire element. Furthermore he is bred on the sire producing cross of A.P. Indy over daughters of Mr Prospector, responsible for highly successful sires Pulpit, Malibu Moon, Mineshaft, Congrats and Flatter. Indy King stands for a mere $3500.

Henri,

love your facts and figures and on that score you are right as always.

The word 'versus' was wrongly used by myself as I was not infering that one was better than the other.

I actually like INDY KING but for commercial reasons cant commit,that being said at $3500 it would not be that big a punt to get a return in the positive.

What I really was alluding to was that If INDY KING had SIR PERCY'S first season results in the southern hemisphere given that they had served similar numbers, would you be equally dissappointed?

This conversation only started because I was taken by suprise when you stated that SIR PERCY did not warrant a trip back to rich hill on his current results.

p.s I think when we are dealing with such small numbers the stakes winner ratio can be quite skewed.

I remember thinking GOOD JOURNEY did an unbelievable job in his first couple of seasons given the small numbers he served, and when lyndsay park[ now cornerstone] bought into him he would turn out to be a roaring success [stakeswinner wise]

I am still waiting

[Henri Jooste 40]

Forrest following our exchange and based on the performance of Coquet in the Oaks where had she not met with severe interference she would have surely been placed at least, I would say that Sir Percy has done enough with his first crop so far. The collateral form around Coquets stakes win in the Montrose Fillies Stakes signalled that she is a very good filly and her Oaks effort confirms her class. To have a runner in the Derby too is a good start.

Sires such as Sir Percy with his classic pedigree and performance have a huge contribution to make to our gene pool particularly as broodmare sires which in the long term makes him a valuable addition to the NZ ranks.

[Omarsharif 0]

Omarsharif wrote

Ok fair enough, I was referring to Sir Percy seems to be leaving stayers as opposed to sprinter-milers...his best performer Coquet an example. As he was an unbeaten two year old who went on to classic success at three (and being the son of a top miler Mark of Esteem) I was uncertain whether Sir Percy would leave predominantly stayers or sprinter/milers.

Although he has listed placegetters at 1400m it will be very interesting to see where the majority of his stakes performances will come from.

Percy Jackson ran a strong finishing second in Hong Kong at the weekend over 1800m while Via Meydan won an 1800m race in Madrid yesterday to become Sir Percy's 19th individual 1st crop winner (from 37 runners). Bomar also began his quest for classic success this season with a 1st up win as a 3 yo in Sweden last week over a mile.

And I wouldn't try to judge whether Cavaleiro is a 'fast stayer' based on his poor run in the derby.

[Omarsharif 0]

Forrest following our exchange and based on the performance of Coquet in the Oaks where had she not met with severe interference she would have surely been placed at least, I would say that Sir Percy has done enough with his first crop so far. The collateral form around Coquets stakes win in the Montrose Fillies Stakes signalled that she is a very good filly and her Oaks effort confirms her class. To have a runner in the Derby too is a good start.

Sires such as Sir Percy with his classic pedigree and performance have a huge contribution to make to our gene pool particularly as broodmare sires which in the long term makes him a valuable addition to the NZ ranks.

Make up your mind Henri, only a few days you said "Coquet ran a commendable sixth in the Epsom Oaks and looks by far the best horse sired by Sir Percy to date and remains his only stakes winner so far. For mine the jury is out on Sir Percy, not sure if he has done enough to return" whereas your comments above seem a little contradictory

[Henri Jooste 40]

Yes Omar the statements are contradictory. You see I am not bound by dogma, neither do I feel that I have to defend a stance to the death. In the case of Sir Percy the jury is out and any new evidence presented must be considered. At first glance Coquets run in the Oaks was satisfactory and my first comment was made from the result sheet and the close proximity to the winner. My view was reviewed after watching the video of race after which I felt that Coquet was good enough to have run either second or third. The fact that Sir Percy has been able to sire a filly of such class from a relatively small book of mares as well as a Derby contender has elevated his status IMO. So all things considered, especially off the performances of Coquet, Sir Percy looks to have done enough to warrant returning to these shores.

I am happy to debate the merits of various sires and some may not always agree with me or like what I say, I am also allowed to change my mind too. That’s the beauty of free speech, and when we are free to debate, the facts will eventually emerge above vested interests and marketspeak.

[Omarsharif 0]

Yes Omar the statements are contradictory. You see I am not bound by dogma, neither do I feel that I have to defend a stance to the death. In the case of Sir Percy the jury is out and any new evidence presented must be considered. At first glance Coquets run in the Oaks was satisfactory and my first comment was made from the result sheet and the close proximity to the winner. My view was reviewed after watching the video of race after which I felt that Coquet was good enough to have run either second or third. The fact that Sir Percy has been able to sire a filly of such class from a relatively small book of mares as well as a Derby contender has elevated his status IMO. So all things considered, especially off the performances of Coquet, Sir Percy looks to have done enough to warrant returning to these shores.

I am happy to debate the merits of various sires and some may not always agree with me or like what I say, I am also allowed to change my mind too. That’s the beauty of free speech, and when we are free to debate, the facts will eventually emerge above vested interests and marketspeak.

Quite right...however you make it sound as though the decision whether he returns to NZ lies with Rich Hill (I am certain they would love to have him back) where I remember reading somewhere he was resting from SH duties for this coming season only (2012) by the owners.

I see he had a 'full book' for the 2012 NH season but not sure how many foals that will result in with their 'limited book' policy. Seems crazy that top sires these days are serving up to nearly 200 mares a season whereas Sir Percy only 30 second crop foals in NH. Ok that will probably improve over time with further success but I certainly think he has done enough with his limited numbers so far....

[Omarsharif 0]

"Bomar and Funinthesand in Norwegian 2000 Guineas"

(08/06/2012)

We're looking much forward to the 14th of June, where classic hopes Bomar (Sir Percy) and Funinthesand (Footstepsinthesand) set sail for the Norwegian 2000 Guineas, run over a mile at Øvrevoll. Both horses are in top shape after good prep races, and we're hopeful for two strong performances in top class company.

Bomar's big target is the Group 1 German Derby in Hamburg on July 1st, but a cracked hoof made us decide to run at home instead of heading to the Derby Trial in Bremen. Hopefully Bomar will be convincing enough in the Norwegian 2000 Guineas to let us have a crack at the Derby in Hamburg.

Wido Neuroth

This was taken off trainers website

[Omarsharif 0]

Lady Percy became Sir Percy's 20th individual 1st crop winner overnight when taking out a mile race at Salisbury last evening. Stretched out nicely in the concluding stages to win.

[Forrest 78]

Another huge run by this filly in the group 2 ribblesdale stakes for fourth yet again.

Must have made up twenty lengths in the straight after losing her position possibly interfered with?

I still cant believe she has not attained black type yet,given how many great performances i have seen her put in.

[Abernant 37]

Indy kings winner on the 19/06/2012 put it over the 5 Mill 143 foals 92 runners 65 winners over $5,000,000 in earnings http://www.arion.co.nz/StallionsRoster/StallionsRosterDisplay.aspx?Id=2873&Page=1

[Forrest 78]

Last couple of days including AZRUR at doncaster over 1400m and SCARLET WHISPERS over 2300m at windsor

Also had two seconds , boleyn at Windsor over 1200m and cheviot quest over 2600 at newmarket

So he keeps getting results over a variety of distances

[Omarsharif 0]

Sir Percy continues to make his mark with another 2 yo black type performance when french-bred HYDER ran second in a listed race in Italy last week.

BOMAR also won his 4th race impressively in Norway and is now favourite for the Swedish Derby next month while SCARLET WHISPERS won her second in a row.

[Forrest 78]

the baronet won at nottingham over 1600m last night

[Barmer 0]

the baronet won at nottingham over 1600m last night

Kepp up the good work boys - I have a mare in foal to him so it's music to my ears

[Forrest 78]

Scarlet prince won over 2400m at thirsk

[Pony 0]

What is his stats looking like now?

[Omarsharif 0]

What is his stats looking like now?

Scarlet Belle won at Newbury over 2000m to become Sir Percy's 24th 1st crop winner from 38 runners (63%) with a further 10 placegetters (89%)

His 2yo Van Percy debuted over the weekend at Lingfield and managed a 1st up second placing.

[kmhood 1]

Scarlet Belle won at Newbury over 2000m to become Sir Percy's 24th 1st crop winner from 38 runners (63%) with a further 10 placegetters (89%)

His 2yo Van Percy debuted over the weekend at Lingfield and managed a 1st up second placing.

Can hardly wait to see what his first season in NZ runners to when they start. Our girl will soon be off to be broken in & looking forward to his new foal later this season.

[Pony 0]

First Sir Percy trials tomorrow!

[Forrest 78]

First Sir Percy trials tomorrow!

ran second

[Forrest 78]

Indigo lady 1400m yarmouth

[Pony 0]

Super

[Forrest 78]

Sound hearts won over approx 2000m

By 6 lengths at brighton

[Pony 0]

It!

[Forrest 78]

Was an impressive winner over 2000m at newmarket last night