2012 Inter Dominion

[JimJess 0]

Jim..Jim I was in Auckland last year and if all you are spruiking is correct why did such a paltry crowd turn up to watch your perfect Inter Dom final.The crowd in Perth on the first set of heats was far bigger than the Kiwis who bothered to even to turn up for your final.Are you sure that you know what your talking about!! Im not so sure.

Anyway.. Cheers

When did I ever say that last years inter dom final was perfect?

My argument has always been that 3 rounds of heats as highlighted by this series means that horses that should be in the series by pass it, leading to a lack of depth and short priced favorites in the series, which in my view is not good for harness racing.

Last years series in NZ saw almost every grand circuit class horse at the series although some of them raced below their best. This series has seen a number bypass or miss the series despite it being the richest race in Australasia this season.

You have mentioned crowds above. Every kiwi knows that Auckland always struggles to attract crowds to harness racing. With the 2011 inter dominion series shifted from canterbury (harness facings heartland in NZ) to Auckland only weeks before the series started due to the earthquake in Christchurch the crowd was always going to be well below that which would have attended addington.

In saying that the crowd that turned up to Auckland last year was the biggest at Alexandra park for over 10 years although it was well below the number that would have been at addington.

On NZ cup day at addington, 25000 people attend which well exceeds the number that attends any harness meeting in Australia.

[JimJess 0]

but what they revealed to me are that you are absolutely full of shit

The first 2 nights of the perth inter heats

t/over $2,191,580 at an average per heat of $273,947.The first and only 2 nights of the Auckland inters t/over $1,058,000 at an average t/over of $265000

I wait with baited breath for your reply. TITANIC

You have just shown how illogical you are Romeo. You cannot possibly look at the turnover on an Australian TAB consisting of the western Australian, Victorian and Tasmanian combined pool and use that as a guide to assess one series conducted locally and another series conducted in another country.

I am certain that the turnover figures on the NZ tab will show that betting in NZ on last years inter dominion was significantly higher than this years. That too is an unfair comparison but it is akin to what you are trying to put forward.

With the number of incredibly short priced unbackable favorites that this series has turned up, I will be amazed if the turnover on the Australian and NZ tabs is well above what was budgeted and well above the Sydney and gold coast inter dominions of recent years.

The starting prices of 11 of the 12 heat winners has been as follows - $1.10, $1.10, $1.20, $1.20, $1.30, $1.30, $1.60, $1.80, $2.10, $2.50 and $2.60.

8 of the 12 heat winners have started as odds on favorites with 6 of them at $1.30 or shorter.

If that gets you excited then anything will. If you think that a new generation of punters and harness racing enthusiasts are going to be inspired by the no contest results that have been served up in a ridiculous number of heats, then quite clearly you are stuck in the past and deluded.

[JimJess 0]

Why does the series need changing. Just happens this year there are 3 dominant horses. Why should it be changed just to allow others to enter. We dont take fences out of the grand national to make it better for more runners or cut the melbourne cup to a mile and a half to get better horses even though ours dont stay. I love the 3 heat format. May the toughest horse win and the Interdoms have provided so many memorable series in the past. Be a shame to see it as just another race. Plenty of those already for the softies.

Plenty of races have evolved and changed conditions over the years with the view to becoming better races.

The inter dominion series for 40 or more years was conducted as a standing start discretionary handicap series. It was still a standing start series when conducted in Perth in 1982. The authorities quite rightly moved with the times and made it a mobile start FFA series thereafter.

If we stuck to what has always occurred we would be seeing smoken up and the mightquinn coming off 50m handicaps in this series.

In recent years the NZ cup has changed from a discretionary handicap race to a standing start FFA. Similarly the Auckland cup in recent years has changed from a discretionary handicap race to a mobile start FFA.

I do not want to see the inter dominion become a one off race similar to what is proposed for Sydney next year.

However I think it is pointless in today's age of conducting an inter dominion series over three rounds of heats which inevitably results in too many of our best horses bypassing the series and serves up a multitude of odds on favorites in non betting affairs.

One of our biggest flagship events should have conditions and prize money which sees the very best horses from Australia and NZ contest it, providing the best spectacle, punting and human interest throughout the series for the overall benefit of the sport.

Harness racing has been renowned and frowned upon by the general public for years for having far too many short priced unbackable favorites and this years series to date only furthers that argument.

[chelseacol 2,488]

I take your point Jim, but how much do you think the lack of depth this year has to do with Perth being a long way away from anywhere, and the presence of SU and ITMQ (on his home ground) scaring others away.

Four heats a night does not make sense, but neither am I totally convinced the series is a goner in the 4 night format due to just this years running?

[Idolmite 2,531]

I take your point Jim, but how much do you think the lack of depth this year has to do with Perth being a long way away from anywhere, and the presence of SU and ITMQ (on his home ground) scaring others away.

Four heats a night does not make sense, but neither am I totally convinced the series is a goner in the 4 night format due to just this years running?

It's something I mentioned in an earlier post chelseacol; I think the distance and the domination of 2-3 horses, plus the clash with the Auckland carnival when considering any NZ challenge, have combined to creat this situation, NOT the format. Most other NZ and East Coast runners were only looking at 3rd or 4th at best, and it's a long way to go just to get dicked.

[Romeo Vic 0]

Plenty of races have evolved and changed conditions over the years with the view to becoming better races.

The inter dominion series for 40 or more years was conducted as a standing start discretionary handicap series. It was still a standing start series when conducted in Perth in 1982. The authorities quite rightly moved with the times and made it a mobile start FFA series thereafter.

If we stuck to what has always occurred we would be seeing smoken up and the mightquinn coming off 50m handicaps in this series.

In recent years the NZ cup has changed from a discretionary handicap race to a standing start FFA. Similarly the Auckland cup in recent years has changed from a discretionary handicap race to a mobile start FFA.

I do not want to see the inter dominion become a one off race similar to what is proposed for Sydney next year.

However I think it is pointless in today's age of conducting an inter dominion series over three rounds of heats which inevitably results in too many of our best horses bypassing the series and serves up a multitude of odds on favorites in non betting affairs.

One of our biggest flagship events should have conditions and prize money which sees the very best horses from Australia and NZ contest it, providing the best spectacle, punting and human interest throughout the series for the overall benefit of the sport.

Harness racing has been renowned and frowned upon by the general public for years for having far too many short priced unbackable favorites and this years series to date only furthers that argument.

You don't seem to get it Captain, the real punters are pouring the money on the Favs

Very interesting that your own man Anthony Butt has said that it's the best thing that has happened going back to a true series, and he's travelled the biggest distance

[JimJess 0]

You don't seem to get it Captain, the real punters are pouring the money on the Favs

Very interesting that your own man Anthony Butt has said that it's the best thing that has happened going back to a true series, and he's travelled the biggest distance

I will believe it when I see it Romeo but i am not convinced that turnover across the Australian and NZ tabs will be significantly up as a result of the multitude of $1.20 chances that you have served up.

My sources in the industry advise me that turnover in NZ and in the eastern states of Australia has been very poor.

If turnover has been huge as you claim in western Australia then I can only assume that some of the premium customers that your tote pays 10% rebates to has taken advantage of the multitude of certainties that your series has served up and has punted big for the benefit of the rebates. Put $50,000 for the place on smoken up in one of the heats. It pays money back $1.00 but you get a $5,000 rebate in the process costing the wa tote and the industry profits for the benefit of higher turnover.

I am not surprised to hear that Anthony butt likes 3 rounds of heats. Of course he will. He has driven the winners in 4 of those heats so the series has been good to his pocket.

The question that I constantly raise however is a series that contains little depth and a multitude of long odds on favorites the best advertisement and promotional tool for harness racing in this a flagship event? Not for mine it isn't.

You may think it's great Romeo seeing smoken up, quinny and Auckland reactor go around every second night at $1.20 and beat up their inferior rivals. Personally I think harness racing can do much better than this and has much more to offer.

[Romeo Vic 0]

I will believe it when I see it Romeo but i am not convinced that turnover across the Australian and NZ tabs will be significantly up as a result of the multitude of $1.20 chances that you have served up.

My sources in the industry advise me that turnover in NZ and in the eastern states of Australia has been very poor.

If turnover has been huge as you claim in western Australia then I can only assume that some of the premium customers that your tote pays 10% rebates to has taken advantage of the multitude of certainties that your series has served up and has punted big for the benefit of the rebates. Put $50,000 for the place on smoken up in one of the heats. It pays money back $1.00 but you get a $5,000 rebate in the process costing the wa tote and the industry profits for the benefit of higher turnover.

I am not surprised to hear that Anthony butt likes 3 rounds of heats. Of course he will. He has driven the winners in 4 of those heats so the series has been good to his pocket.

The question that I constantly raise however is a series that contains little depth and a multitude of long odds on favorites the best advertisement and promotional tool for harness racing in this a flagship event? Not for mine it isn't.

You may think it's great Romeo seeing smoken up, quinny and Auckland reactor go around every second night at $1.20 and beat up their inferior rivals. Personally I think harness racing can do much better than this and has much more to offer.

S/tab is one of the biggest and it shows plenty

What a failure all these great stay at home kiwis are they could of created this depth you talk of, where are they, weak as piss effort

Those heats are there for everyone they just need to turn up

[JimJess 0]

It's something I mentioned in an earlier post chelseacol]

There is no doubt that the distance to Perth has had some impact on the lack of horses from NZ and the Eastern States of Australia contesting the 2012 Inter Dominion.

However there is no doubt in my mind that that the gruelling format with 3 rounds of heats in a week and 4 runs in 14 days has also played a huge part in the decisions of the connections of Sushi Sushi, Terror To Love, Franco Emirate, Sir Lincoln, Gold Ace, Franco Jamar, Choise Achiever and Gomeo Romeo deciding to bypass the 2012 Inter Dominion Series.

The stakes on offer in Perth are outstanding and dwarf what is on offer for Open Class Pacers at the Auckland Cup Carnival. With a A$1Million Grand Final and three rounds of A$60K Heats, horses contesting the Inter Dominion are effectively racing for the equivalent of NZ$1.5M. Compare this to the $250K on offer for the Auckland Cup and certainly the stakemoney incentive was there for horses and connections to travel to Perth.

Any horse that won a heat, was placed in two remaining heats (keeping in mind that the good horses were split 4 ways) and finished 5th in the Grand Final in Perth would earn a similar sum of money as the winner of the Auckland Cup. So the money was certainly there on offer and an incentive in Perth.

Sushi Sushi and Terror To Love have already this season in big Group 1 races beaten Smoken Up and Highview Tommy also defeated him on Smoken Up's home turf in Victoria recently.

While Smoken Up is highly respected by all in NZ, we know that he is not foolproof and that he is beatable on his day. Plenty of Kiwi horses have been willing to travel to Victoria and NSW in recent months and take him on in his own backyard so why not Perth when there was a lot more money on offer?

Similarly The Mightyquinn is respected as a great horse however his failed Eastern State campaign in NSW and Victoria in November and December should have given some hope that he is not unbeatable and infact requires the right run and luck in his races.

Sushi Sushi, Terror To Love, Franco Emirate, Gold Ace, Franco Jamar and Choise Achiever have all been willing to travel and to take on Smoken Up, The Mightyquinn and Mr Feelgood and Co at Grand Circuit level this season and by and large they have all performed very well.

So why weren't they prepared to get on a plane to Perth and race for $1.5M in stakes in an Inter Dominion when they were happy to get on a plane and travel to Melbourne/Sydney/Perth earlier in the season and race for much less money against the same rivals?

A large part of the answer lies in the fact that all of these horses are young, emerging and exciting Grand Circuit horses that have lucrative careers ahead of them. Their connections were concerned about burning them out and overtaxing them in a gruelling Inter Dominion Series with 3 heat runs in a week and 4 tough runs in 14 days. That is a large part of the reason why these horses are not at the Inter Dominion.

With a less gruelling format and being allowed to race week to week in a Series over two rounds of Heats, connections of the likes of Sushi Sushi, Terror To Love, Franco Emirate, Sir Lincoln, Gold Ace, Franco Jamar, Choise Achiever, Sir Lincoln, Gomeo Romeo etc would have been more inclined to contest the 2012 Inter Dominion and race for the great stakemoney on offer. They would have under this format been far less concerned about overtaxing their young horses.

So based on the evidence there is little doubt in my mind that the 3 heat format of the current Inter Dominion has played its part in the connections of the emerging topline 4yos and 5yos in Australasia all deciding to bypass the gruelling Series. The format of the Series has resulted in the depth in all honesty being disappointing in the Series.

Conversely have a look at the 6 horses that did travel to Perth to contest the Inter Dominion namely Smoken Up, Mr Feelgood, Washakie, Heza Buzzin, Auckland Reactor, Raglan. Essentially these horses are older more established horses at the highest level who are more likely to handle the rigours of a gruelling Inter Dominion Campaign. Their time is now - they don't have too many future years on the Grand Circuit ahead of them.

It is also worth pointing out that Monkey King, Changeover, Baileys Dream, Bondy, Awesome Armbro and Pembrook Penny were all prepared to get on a plane and travel to Sydney to contest the 2010 Inter Dominion Series over 2 rounds of heats and then get back on a plane and run in the Auckland Cup 5 nights later. The less gruelling format over 2 rounds of heats in Sydney in 2010 was more conducive to doing this.

However a more gruelling Series over 3 rounds of Heats in Australia in 2012 has meant that most of the young emerging talent on the Grand Circuit has decided to bypass Australia's flagship Harness Racing event because they dont want to overtax or cook their horses.

[Gruff 2,790]

I can't recall a great n.z turnout in the 04 jofess interdom at glouster either, mister d.g ran a meritorious 4th

[sixgoalhero 1]

Awesome win to come that wide by itmq, dominated the series and fully desereved it, not sure what happened to SU, never seen him gallop before, mr feelgood and auckland reactor both went disgusting

[Gruff 2,790]

TMQ class act at glouster and driven superbly as was Lombo navigator in 3rd. Butt lost his cool putting the reactor outside the leader early when history has proven this horse to be weak working outside grand circuit champions, and Hancocks drive on raglan was one resigned to someone competing for 4th place with luck,when a run with cover off the fence was assured ,thus giving the horse a winning chance after SUs early mistake.

[majbarnett 0]

TMQ class act at glouster and driven superbly as was Lombo navigator in 3rd. Butt lost his cool putting the reactor outside the leader early when history has proven this horse to be weak working outside grand circuit champions, and Hancocks drive on raglan was one resigned to someone competing for 4th place with luck,when a run with cover off the fence was assured ,thus giving the horse a winning chance after SUs early mistake.

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i kinda got to aggree a tad with this comment .

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[Ohokaman 5,825]

Great race - just a shame Smoken Up broke when he did, took a lot out of the race but no denying the best horse won.

http://www.harnesslink.com/www/Article.cgi?ID=96054

[the game 0]

Best horse in the series. Pity about Smoken Up. Raglan went well but wouldnt have won and did have a soft trip. Auckland Reactor just awful. Wonder if Ants still rates him the best in the last 15 years. Think Elsu would go past him and give him wind burn

[bernard 0]

I don't think you can blame Butt's drive on AR. On that run he was never going to win no matter how he was driven. It made sence to have a few lengths on ITMQ turning for home. ITMQ is a true champ and the best in Australasia at present. AR's run well below his best. Maybe he can't take 4 races in two weeks or just can't take the pressure of racing against the very best?

[Gruff 2,790]

Best horse in the series. Pity about Smoken Up. Raglan went well but wouldnt have won and did have a soft trip. Auckland Reactor just awful. Wonder if Ants still rates him the best in the last 15 years. Think Elsu would go past him and give him wind burn ]

Raglan could easily have won, we will never know because handcock

Didnt put it in the race to win mr game

[sixgoalhero 1]

Everyone saying it was an amazing drive by jnr, but does anyone else think it was a tad lucky driving the best horse in the race like that. Smokin up was always going to capitulate, but if he went for 2-300 meters more before dropping out then itmq was done, he was giving the leading four a massive start anyway. If raglan or lombo navigator got out earlier they could have won, if feelgood or ar go anygood they would have had too bigger start on him. Was disappointing su galloped, the way all the other horses went i think if he crossed they couldnt have beaten him.

Anyway thought it was the best result for harness racing, massive crowd with the hometown fav and best performed horse all series winning, sad its really the last interdominion.

[Bunter 0]

TMQ class act at glouster and driven superbly as was Lombo navigator in 3rd. Butt lost his cool putting the reactor outside the leader early [snip]

'Early'? It was the end of the second time down the back straight, i.e., more than halfway through the race. Mark Purdon moved him far earlier in his Auckland Cup and Flying Stakes wins.

Personally, I thought Butt drove AR pretty much perfectly. With Smoken Up out of it, there was no future in letting Mr Feelgood have everything his own way in front. As it turned out, Mr Feelgood went poorly, but Butt could hardly have relied on that happening. If he had, and AR had then been pushed five wide when trying to improve, or been a fast late finisher, everybody would have slammed him for being too conservative.

[Gruff 2,790]

he may of been slammed bunter but doesnt do well outside grand circuit champions,i said early in respect to only winning chance been driven cold.i never rated his chances in final at all, unlike raglan who had his chances extinguised by a driver who shouldnt of been there.

[majbarnett 0]

unlike raglan who had his chances extinguised by a driver who shouldnt of been there.

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????? ? do you mean the driver should not have been found wanting in the position he found himself in .....or do you mean he should not have been there at all as the driver ??

[Gruff 2,790]

Both! ... And I had jofess at 10 in 2004 !

[moema 0]

What a great Inter Dominion Series we are witnessing in Perth at the moment over 3 rounds of Heats.

After winning at $1.30 in the first round of heats, both Smoken Up and The Mightyquinn come out and win at $1.10 on Night 2.

Continuing the trend on Night 2, Auckland Reactor wins at $1.60 and Raglan makes it 4 odds on Heat winners on Night 2 at $1.80.

And we have to put up with more of the same to come on Night 3 except that Smoken Up and The Mightyquinn will be $1.04 this time and some of their inferior and tired rivals will be as much as $501.

Every Inter Dominion in the future should be run over 3 rounds of heats because quite clearly it produces a Series with heaps of depth and provides good open betting races which can only help to promote harness racing to new punters.

A great series, the atmosphere at the final was fantastic, the roar of the crowd during the final race was great. Like when Jofess won previously at where the Inters emanated from, in Perth.

One complaint there was 18,000 people at the final and somebody forgot to tell the organisers the average punter likes to eat at the venue. The catering was very sparse and poorly organised.

I was at Menangle 2 years ago for the final and the atmosphere during the day meeting wasn't nearly as good.

The Inters as series can continue and was marketed really well, congratulations to GP fpr that. It does well to promote Harness Racing to the public and should be continued as the mecca race in Australasia.

[Romeo Vic 0]

Everyone saying it was an amazing drive by jnr, but does anyone else think it was a tad lucky driving the best horse in the race like that. Smokin up was always going to capitulate, but if he went for 2-300 meters more before dropping out then itmq was done, he was giving the leading four a massive start anyway. If raglan or lombo navigator got out earlier they could have won, if feelgood or ar go anygood they would have had too bigger start on him. Was disappointing su galloped, the way all the other horses went i think if he crossed they couldnt have beaten him.

Anyway thought it was the best result for harness racing, massive crowd with the hometown fav and best performed horse all series winning, sad its really the last interdominion.

Ifs and buts are exactly that and will always be.

Thought it may interest a few what a couple of judges that are just a bit above ordinary thought

THE human king and queen of the Inter Dominion have dubbed the equine king of harness racing the "quickest thing on four legs"

"That just doesn't happen in races . . . and it doesn't happen in Inter Dominions," master horseman Brian Hancock said of Im Themightyquinn's breathtaking last-to-first win at Gloucester Park on Friday night.

His sheer speed is amazing. You win nine out of 10 race with that speed," Hancock said.

He's a most dangerous horse. He was the one I would have wanted to be behind, because he had been so dominant. It was a great result for WA, running one, two, three and the kids driving the placegetters really held their cool."

And he was full of compliments for the Hazelmere father-and-son team who executed the win.

"They worked out how they would do it and said nothing," Hancock said.

"They knew they had the best horse but you still have to win it. The kid (Gary Jr) outsmarted them and he seemed to be the only person who didn't put pressure on himself," he said.

Meanwhile, Natalie Rasmussen burnt the early-morning oil in New Zealand (five hours ahead of WA) to watch the star she followed home in Australasia's greatest harness race a year earlier do it his way in 2012.

"Brilliant, absolutely brilliant," Rasmussen said.

"That horse (Im Themightyquinn) has an unbelievable turn of speed . . . he's definitely the quickest I've seen. He's super."

[Romeo Vic 0]

What a great Inter Dominion Series we are witnessing in Perth at the moment over 3 rounds of Heats.

After winning at $1.30 in the first round of heats, both Smoken Up and The Mightyquinn come out and win at $1.10 on Night 2.

Continuing the trend on Night 2, Auckland Reactor wins at $1.60 and Raglan makes it 4 odds on Heat winners on Night 2 at $1.80.

And we have to put up with more of the same to come on Night 3 except that Smoken Up and The Mightyquinn will be $1.04 this time and some of their inferior and tired rivals will be as much as $501.

Every Inter Dominion in the future should be run over 3 rounds of heats because quite clearly it produces a Series with heaps of depth and provides good open betting races which can only help to promote harness racing to new punters.

Gee you were real close to the mark CAPTAIN GUESS

Them claimers were real tired--- and the one that ran 2nd happened to clock up $1mil in prizemoney

Punters stayed away in droves on s/tab only indulging in $1.043mil on the race nothing like the $623k that was bet last year, but its understandable as this series was the epitome of everything bad with such low prices, why hell there was only $520k on the win and place pool, all coupled with with the weakest series ever filled with claimers. I pray to god that I could have your sort of vision