Views On Extra Place Options?

[kakama]

Well we have had plenty of time to invest on the extra place options, who would think you can finish tenth and still collect. Good to multi up…. but also been a bit frustrating. 
 

Plenty of times you want a jockey to beat a few home, only to see them not trying once cannot finish in top placings… mind you, i have collected on horses passing jockeys easing up… so 50/50 i suppose. Any Views? 

[Eunice]

 Jockeys need to be educated about these extra betting types to ensure they ride out their horse to the line if a chance to finish in the top 10 or top whatever.Presumably  new betting types will mean some current jockey penalty rules may need updating .

 

[boatey]

Get rid of it. Who wants to see horses getting whipped so they can finish tenth. Look after the horses not the gamblers.

[kakama]

33 minutes ago, boatey said:

Get rid of it. Who wants to see horses getting whipped so they can finish tenth. Look after the horses not the gamblers.

My issue is seeing jockeys easing up when out of first 4 placings. Dont want jockeys whipping the crap out of horse, but not easing up. 

[kakama]

47 minutes ago, Eunice said:

 Jockeys need to be educated about these extra betting types to ensure they ride out their horse to the line if a chance to finish in the top 10 or top whatever.Presumably  new betting types will mean some current jockey penalty rules may need updating .

 

Correct

[boatey]

Why ride a horse out that has had enough. Most jockeys know the horse they are riding.

[Eunice]

 

36 minutes ago, boatey said:

 

 

 

39 minutes ago, boatey said:

45 minutes ago, boatey said:

 Look after the horses not the gamblers.

 

Unfortunately Entain and the TAB are in the "make money from gamblers" industry,thus why these new betting types get introduced.

[YTA1984]

Horses not being ridden out was an issue with the head to head bets, too.  Feels a bit too open to manipulation to me but I guess if you take those options you’ve just got to go in eyes wide open that you might cop a few bad beats where your jockey doesn’t try their best to squeeze into 8th spot or whatever 

[kakama]

48 minutes ago, boatey said:

Why ride a horse out that has had enough. Most jockeys know the horse they are riding.

But in some instances, stake money is paid down to 10th place, jockeys are required to do their best to finish in the best possible placing, without flogging horse, nobody wants to see that. Just want consistency, if a race is worth a million, jockeys will be trying their best to place, owners will want this. 
But lower class racing, seems many are happy to ease up. 
 

This type of bet type has been available in Australia for ages. 

[Pak Star]

Boatey is correct - the wellbeing of the horse far outweighs the wellbeing of the tragics betting on it to run 9th instead of 10th.  

Have the option to bet on top 5 which is typically where the second lowest prize money hurdle stops.  

[kakama]

41 minutes ago, Pak Star said:

Boatey is correct - the wellbeing of the horse far outweighs the wellbeing of the tragics betting on it to run 9th instead of 10th.  

Have the option to bet on top 5 which is typically where the second lowest prize money hurdle stops.  

Think your missing the point… nobody is talking about flogging a horse, it is about jockeys easing up well before the line. At a time when punters are leaving the racing game, need to give them confidence that jockeys are reminded of the rules to give their horses a best possible chance of finishing in a stake bearing place. 
 

Kozzi Asano had a 2 week suspension for not riding out High Choice on the 20th March 2022. 
horse finished 7th, but stewards stated should have finished at least 6th, according to rule 636(1)B he was found guilty as stake money was paid to 10th placing. 

[Pak Star]

20 minutes ago, kakama said:

Think your missing the point… nobody is talking about flogging a horse, it is about jockeys easing up well before the line. At a time when punters are leaving the racing game, need to give them confidence that jockeys are reminded of the rules to give their horses a best possible chance of finishing in a stake bearing place. 
 

Kozzi Asano had a 2 week suspension for not riding out High Choice on the 20th March 2022. 
horse finished 7th, but stewards stated should have finished at least 6th, according to rule 636(1)B he was found guilty as stake money was paid to 10th placing. 

Indeed stakes are paid to 10th but if you look at most race structures, the payout from 6th to 10th is exactly the same so a rider sitting 8th close to the line with no obvious shot at running top 5 would have no desire to get into a race with the 2 or 3 horses around them. 

Thus my opinion that betting as far back as top 5 would be ideal.  That way punters expectations can be aligned with that of the stewards.

[Chris Wood]

Hands and heels is not what I consider flogging a horse….

[Chris Wood]

I see Ben Melham got fined $2000 on Skybird on Saturday after winning, for not riding it out!

He was lucky not to get rolled….

[CVance]

23 hours ago, Eunice said:

 

 

 

Unfortunately Entain and the TAB are in the "make money from gamblers" industry,thus why these new betting types get introduced.

Sorry Eunice but without gamblers there would not be a racing industry ......as Chris Wood says riding hands and heels could well make a difference to those top 10 placings and punters need a fair crack of the whip...pardon the pun.

[boatey]

Hi Chris, I have been around racing a long,long time and I agree hands and heels is fine but when you see jockeys whipping the horse when you can see they have had enough that is a different problem.

[YTA1984]

11 minutes ago, boatey said:

Hi Chris, I have been around racing a long,long time and I agree hands and heels is fine but when you see jockeys whipping the horse when you can see they have had enough that is a different problem.

Agreed - especially given the challenges around social licence.  No need to provide the ammunition to the antis.  

[nomates]

I have a major issue with a beaten horse getting the bash to finish 8th instead of 9th so a few random punters can get a return .

Where has common sense gone . 

[Eunice]

1 hour ago, nomates said:

I have a major issue with a beaten horse getting the bash to finish 8th instead of 9th so a few random punters can get a return .

Where has common sense gone . 

Where has the common sense gone?

Best ask Entain/TAB that as they  introduce these new betting types.

However I think i can give you the answer.TO TRY AND INCREASE THEIR PROFITABILITY.

[nomates]

21 minutes ago, Eunice said:

Where has the common sense gone?

Best ask Entain/TAB that as they  introduce these new betting types.

However I think i can give you the answer.TO TRY AND INCREASE THEIR PROFITABILITY.

I'm sure , pretty sure it wouldn't be a big money maker .

In an industry trying to keep a clean nose image on welfare it's not a good look .

[Chris Wood]

4 hours ago, boatey said:

Hi Chris, I have been around racing a long,long time and I agree hands and heels is fine but when you see jockeys whipping the horse when you can see they have had enough that is a different problem.

Fully understand that, read my words, hands and heels! 

[Houlahan's Dream]

I love it. You can multi up 2 or 3 to finish in varying places depending on your assessment of thier ability, and then suddenly some modest place dividends can add up. 

I understand it is not everyone's cup of matcha latte but surely the more betting options the better? Or do we just go back to W/P and Quinella?

[kakama]

19 hours ago, nomates said:

I have a major issue with a beaten horse getting the bash to finish 8th instead of 9th so a few random punters can get a return .

Where has common sense gone  

Once again,  nobody has mentioned anything about horses getting the bash on this thread, nobody wants to see this.
Main point was seeing jockeys ease up before finish.  
 

As for your comment, dont want horses getting the bash to finish 8th or 9th for random punters…. but your ok with more vigour if finishing first 4? 

[PKR]

I've just read the thread from start to end to tbf find it all a bit bizarre.

Yes, by all means (re) introduce new bet types but paying out on the first 10, well, that's just marketing, a crackpot idea of the 'creative team' at TAB NZ/ Entain. If they're serious about bet types why not the Pick 6? Not everyone's cuppa for sure but it was very popular - and as has been previously discussed on the RC added a bit of drama to the Big Saturday. Or the First Six Home in a key Saturday race.  That was also around for a bit a few years back. Both were a bit of a lotto but well worth winning even with a percentage.  But oh no, the bean counters deemed those type of bet types, especially the Pick 6, tied up too much money on the day. I'm surprised they haven't done away with Quaddies! 

We all like our racing - and a bit of a bet, some more than others  - but the wagering business of today has pretty much stacked it all in the TAB's favour. Not that it was anything but - but now with the mathematical models increasingly driven by sophisticated digital technology its all become even more one-sided.  

Oh, let's introduce payout on the first 10. Whoope! But it's all smoke and mirrors. The pools must be minute and the payouts minimal. Simply a niche bet that poses no risk to the TAB manta of reinvest on each race.

As for animal welfare. There should be no reason - and certainly not a crackpot bet type - why horses should be unduly hit when clearly beaten - although granted some do get hit when 5th place is up for grabs and the monetary prize makes a difference to connections. Riding hands and heels to finish 8th instead of 10th? For most jockeys that would the last thing on their minds.        

[Ripples]

27 minutes ago, PKR said:

I've just read the thread from start to end to tbf find it all a bit bizarre.

Yes, by all means (re) introduce new bet types but paying out on the first 10, well, that's just marketing, a crackpot idea of the 'creative team' at TAB NZ/ Entain. If they're serious about bet types why not the Pick 6? Not everyone's cuppa for sure but it was very popular - and as has been previously discussed on the RC added a bit of drama to the Big Saturday. Or the First Six Home in a key Saturday race.  That was also around for a bit a few years back. Both were a bit of a lotto but well worth winning even with a percentage.  But oh no, the bean counters deemed those type of bet types, especially the Pick 6, tied up too much money on the day. I'm surprised they haven't done away with Quaddies! 

We all like our racing - and a bit of a bet, some more than others  - but the wagering business of today has pretty much stacked it all in the TAB's favour. Not that it was anything but - but now with the mathematical models increasingly driven by sophisticated digital technology its all become even more one-sided.  

Oh, let's introduce payout on the first 10. Whoope! But it's all smoke and mirrors. The pools must be minute and the payouts minimal. Simply a niche bet that poses no risk to the TAB manta of reinvest on each race.

As for animal welfare. There should be no reason - and certainly not a crackpot bet type - why horses should be unduly hit when clearly beaten - although granted some do get hit when 5th place is up for grabs and the monetary prize makes a difference to connections. Riding hands and heels to finish 8th instead of 10th? For most jockeys that would the last thing on their minds.        

Each to their own I guess, I personally love it and use it often with 4+ and 6+ multis so if one (or two) legs fail you get a bonus bet. It may not be everyones cup of tea and if its not just stick to what you prefer. As a punter the more betting options I have the better, some like the old Pick 6, personally I don't but I get it that some do.