RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
pogo

Black Sardine (aus)

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For a split second, before she stared down those challengers, leaned forward, got her head lower and put a space on the chasers, it looked as though she might be in a real dogfight for the first time in her life. But it was only illusory, as her regular rider Luke Nolen, as always, eased down as soon as he could and let her coast over the line, 1¾ lengths to the good.

It was when the race time flashed up that those interested in such measurements realised the immensity of her achievement, something professionals had even more confirmation of seconds later when the printouts displaying the sectional times became available.

Not only had her race time all but equalled the 55.5 seconds record set by the flying filly Special in this event in 1988, but her splits during the contest were extraordinary.

Black Caviar ran the 600 metres between the 800 metres and the 200 metres in 30.59 seconds, a phenomenal average of 10.2 seconds per 200 metres, and the 200 metres between the 600 and 400 in an astonishing 9.98 seconds. Such numbers are unbelievable.

There are fewer more sober judges than a senior handicapper and Greg Carpenter, Racing Victoria's chief weights and measures man, could only shake his head in disbelief. ''Not everywhere has sectional times,'' he said with a smile, ''but I have never, anywhere, seen or heard of a horse breaking 10 seconds for a 200-metre sectional.''

Enough said I think.

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Is this the same Greg Carpenter who said that Black Caviar could win the Lightening Stakes by 2.8 lengths? So Hay List ran better than he expected?

They mentioned the sectionals on Australian Racing Retro this morning. The panel had their mouths hanging open too.

So the record still stands at 55.5 for the Lightening. When was that, the 1980's?

Record was Special in 1988. Geez Centrofold she won by 1.75 lengths easing down - I guess Carpenter wasn't too far away with his guestimate of 2.8.

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Yeah OK, I am splitting hairs. She still didn't break the record so why are people raving it is the best they have ever seen? 1988 was not that long ago.

For a start here is a list of the previous winners of the Lightening - recognise any of them?

Year Winner Jockey Trainer Second Third

2010 Nicconi Damien Oliver David Hayes Wanted Shellscrape

2009 Scenic Blast Steven Arnold Daniel Morton Typhoon Zed Grand Duels

2008 Apache Cat Corey Brown Greg Eurell Swick Stanzout

2007 Miss Andretti Craig Newitt Lee Freedman Magnus Ticklish

2006 Takeover Target Jay Ford Joe Janiak God's Own Cape of Good Hope

2005 Fastnet Rock Glen Boss Paul Perry Alinghi Cape of Good Hope

2004 Regimental Gal Steven King Shaun Dwyer Our Egyptian Raine Mistegic

2003 Choisir Glen Boss Paul Perry Spinning Hill Azavedo

2002 Spinning Hill Steven Arnold Guy Walter Mistegic Chong Tong

2001 Sports Darren Gauci John Hawkes Black Bean Easy Rocking

2000 Testa Rossa Damien Oliver Dean Lawson Falvelon Magic Music

1999 Isca Greg Childs Peter Hayes Toledo Scandanavia

1998 General Nediym Brian York Bill Mitchell Notoire Show No Emotion

1997 Mahogany Greg Hall Lee Freedman Cangronde Spartacus

1996 Gold Ace Damien Oliver Lee Freedman Strategic Sequalo

1995 Mahogany Greg Hall Lee Freedman Alannon Keltrice

1994 Keltrice Steven King Ian Harrison Schillaci Kenvain

1993 Schillaci Damien Oliver Lee Freedman Clever Zoe Oozook

1992 Schillaci Damien Oliver Lee Freedman Umatilla Wrap Around

1991 Shaftesbury Avenue Jim Cassidy Bart Cummings Bureaucracy Lightning Bend

1990 Redelva Neville Wilson Greg Varcoe Show County Strawberry Ranch

1989 Zeditave Greg Hall Angus Armanasco Special Clay Hero

1988 Special Michael Clarke Colin Hayes Snippets Redelva

1987 Placid Ark John Scorse Wally Mitchell Special Canny Lass

1986 Hula Chief Darren Gauci Bart Cummings Rory's Jester Dazzling Duke

1985 River Rough Michael Clarke Bob Hoysted High Signal Feeling Fit

1984 River Rough Rod Dawkins Bob Hoysted Red Tempo Nouvelle Star

1983 Demus Rod Dawkins Bart Cummings Manikato Razor Sharp

1982 He's A Haze Midge Didham Ray Hutchins Razor Sharp Papal Bull

1981 Countess Marizza Des Coleman Eddie Laing Old Breck Totonera

1980 Sportscast Jim Courtney Colin Hayes Mr. Magic Turf Ruler

1979 The Judge Harry White Angus Armanasco Mistress Anne Kero

1978 Maybe Mahal John Stocker Bart Cummings Blazing Saddles Tincture

1977 Maybe Mahal Roy Higgins Bart Cummings Desirable Better Draw

1976 Desirable Malcolm Johnston Colin Hayes Leica Show Flaunting

1975 Cap D'antibes Harry White Bart Cummings Aurealis Hartshill

1974 Century Roy Higgins Bart Cummings John's Hope Idolou

1973 Make Mine Roses Alby King Bob Hoysted Beaches Abinger

1972 Zambari Harry White Tommy Smith Tauto Abinger

1971 Dual Choice Pat Hyland Ken White Tauto Baguette

1970 Black Onyx Harry White Tommy Smith Joking Swift And Sure = 3

Mister Hush = 3

1969 Mister Hush Pat Hyland Con Doyle Magic Ruler Crown Lad

1968 Begonia Belle Pat Hyland Meggs Elkington Marmion Maritana

1967 Storm Queen Roy Higgins Bart Cummings Redcap Marmion

1966 Citius Peter Gumbleton Bill Murrell Bowl King Star Affair

1965 Marmion Bob Durey Les Carstens Star of Heaven Light Fingers

1964 Wenona Girl Bill Pyers Maurice McCarten Ripa Downswept

1963 Wenona Girl Bill Williamson Maurice McCarten Proud Miss Sky High

1962 Sky High George Moore Jack Green Aquanita My Peak

1961 Sky High Neville Sellwood Jack Green Tudor Hill My Peak

1960 Todman Neville Sellwood Maurice McCarten Gay Port Anonyme

1959 Ritmar Brian Pulbrook Stan Murphy Skyline Pride of Colorado

1958 Misting Neville Pyatt V. Ryan Dubbo Kingster

1957 Copper Year Bill Williamson W.L. Boyle Matrice Arganda

1956 Apple Bay Bill Williamson Tommy Smith Kingster Matrice

1955 Gay Vista Billy Cook L.J. O'Sullivan Clear Springs Coulper

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For a start here is a list of the previous winners of the Lightening - recognise any of them?

Year Winner Jockey Trainer Second Third

2010 Nicconi Damien Oliver David Hayes Wanted Shellscrape

2009 Scenic Blast Steven Arnold Daniel Morton Typhoon Zed Grand Duels

2008 Apache Cat Corey Brown Greg Eurell Swick Stanzout

2007 Miss Andretti Craig Newitt Lee Freedman Magnus Ticklish

2006 Takeover Target Jay Ford Joe Janiak God's Own Cape of Good Hope

2005 Fastnet Rock Glen Boss Paul Perry Alinghi Cape of Good Hope

2004 Regimental Gal Steven King Shaun Dwyer Our Egyptian Raine Mistegic

2003 Choisir Glen Boss Paul Perry Spinning Hill Azavedo

2002 Spinning Hill Steven Arnold Guy Walter Mistegic Chong Tong

2001 Sports Darren Gauci John Hawkes Black Bean Easy Rocking

2000 Testa Rossa Damien Oliver Dean Lawson Falvelon Magic Music

1999 Isca Greg Childs Peter Hayes Toledo Scandanavia

1998 General Nediym Brian York Bill Mitchell Notoire Show No Emotion

1997 Mahogany Greg Hall Lee Freedman Cangronde Spartacus

1996 Gold Ace Damien Oliver Lee Freedman Strategic Sequalo

1995 Mahogany Greg Hall Lee Freedman Alannon Keltrice

1994 Keltrice Steven King Ian Harrison Schillaci Kenvain

1993 Schillaci Damien Oliver Lee Freedman Clever Zoe Oozook

1992 Schillaci Damien Oliver Lee Freedman Umatilla Wrap Around

1991 Shaftesbury Avenue Jim Cassidy Bart Cummings Bureaucracy Lightning Bend

1990 Redelva Neville Wilson Greg Varcoe Show County Strawberry Ranch

1989 Zeditave Greg Hall Angus Armanasco Special Clay Hero

1988 Special Michael Clarke Colin Hayes Snippets Redelva

1987 Placid Ark John Scorse Wally Mitchell Special Canny Lass

1986 Hula Chief Darren Gauci Bart Cummings Rory's Jester Dazzling Duke

1985 River Rough Michael Clarke Bob Hoysted High Signal Feeling Fit

1984 River Rough Rod Dawkins Bob Hoysted Red Tempo Nouvelle Star

1983 Demus Rod Dawkins Bart Cummings Manikato Razor Sharp

1982 He's A Haze Midge Didham Ray Hutchins Razor Sharp Papal Bull

1981 Countess Marizza Des Coleman Eddie Laing Old Breck Totonera

1980 Sportscast Jim Courtney Colin Hayes Mr. Magic Turf Ruler

1979 The Judge Harry White Angus Armanasco Mistress Anne Kero

1978 Maybe Mahal John Stocker Bart Cummings Blazing Saddles Tincture

1977 Maybe Mahal Roy Higgins Bart Cummings Desirable Better Draw

1976 Desirable Malcolm Johnston Colin Hayes Leica Show Flaunting

1975 Cap D'antibes Harry White Bart Cummings Aurealis Hartshill

1974 Century Roy Higgins Bart Cummings John's Hope Idolou

1973 Make Mine Roses Alby King Bob Hoysted Beaches Abinger

1972 Zambari Harry White Tommy Smith Tauto Abinger

1971 Dual Choice Pat Hyland Ken White Tauto Baguette

1970 Black Onyx Harry White Tommy Smith Joking Swift And Sure = 3

Mister Hush = 3

1969 Mister Hush Pat Hyland Con Doyle Magic Ruler Crown Lad

1968 Begonia Belle Pat Hyland Meggs Elkington Marmion Maritana

1967 Storm Queen Roy Higgins Bart Cummings Redcap Marmion

1966 Citius Peter Gumbleton Bill Murrell Bowl King Star Affair

1965 Marmion Bob Durey Les Carstens Star of Heaven Light Fingers

1964 Wenona Girl Bill Pyers Maurice McCarten Ripa Downswept

1963 Wenona Girl Bill Williamson Maurice McCarten Proud Miss Sky High

1962 Sky High George Moore Jack Green Aquanita My Peak

1961 Sky High Neville Sellwood Jack Green Tudor Hill My Peak

1960 Todman Neville Sellwood Maurice McCarten Gay Port Anonyme

1959 Ritmar Brian Pulbrook Stan Murphy Skyline Pride of Colorado

1958 Misting Neville Pyatt V. Ryan Dubbo Kingster

1957 Copper Year Bill Williamson W.L. Boyle Matrice Arganda

1956 Apple Bay Bill Williamson Tommy Smith Kingster Matrice

1955 Gay Vista Billy Cook L.J. O'Sullivan Clear Springs Coulper

Lots.......but not all the way back to 1955. She is in good company then. ;) Where are the times?

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Some facts about the Group One $750,000 Lightning Stakes (1000m) at Flemington on Saturday.-

At weight-for-age and first run in 1955 when won by Gay Vista.

Group Two from 1980-86 and Group One from 1987.

The race has been won by some of Australasia's greatest sprinters including Todman (1960), Sky High (1961-62), Wenona Girl (1963-64), Citius (1966), Storm Queen (1967), Black Onyx (1970), Dual Choice (1971), Century (1974), Maybe Mahal (1977-78), River Rough (1984-85), Placid Ark (1987), Special (1988), Shaftesbury Avenue (1991), Schillaci (1992-93), Mahogany (1995, 1997), General Nediym (1998), Testa Rossa (2000), Spinning Hill (2002), Choisir (2003), Fastnet Rock (2005), Takeover Target (2006), MISS ANDRETTI (2007), Apache Cat (2008), Scenic Blast (2009), Black Caviar (2011).

Six horses have won the Lightning Stakes twice: Mahogany (1995, 1997), Schillaci (1992-93), River Rough (1984-85), Maybe Mahal (1977-78), Wenona Girl (1963-64) and Sky High (1961-62). Black Caviar will be out to join them on Saturday.

Bart Cummings holds the record for the number of wins at seven but does not have a runner. His winners are Storm Queen 1967, Century 1974, Cap d'Antibes 1975, Maybe Mahal 1977 and 1978, Hula Chief 1986, Shaftesbury Avenue 1991.

Trainers who have won the race before and have a runner this year: Peter Moody - Black Caviar (Black Caviar 2011).

Winning jockeys with rides this year: Luke Nolen - Black Caviar (Black Caviar 2011); Glen Boss - Lone Rock (Fastnet Rock 2005, Choisir 2003).

Three-year-olds have won eight of the last 18 runnings, the latest being Fastnet Rock in 2005.

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Recent Lightning Stakes Winners

Year Place Horse Time

2011

Lightning Stakes 1st Black Caviar 57.20 seconds

2010

Lightning Stakes 1st Nicconi 57.12 seconds

2009

Lightning Stakes 1st Scenic Blast 56.9 seconds

2008

Lightning Stakes 1st Apache Cat 57.3 seconds

2007

Lightning Stakes 1st Miss Andretti 57.2 seconds

2006

Lightning Stakes 1st Takeover Target 56.8 seconds

2005

Lightning Stakes 1st Fastnet Rock 57.3 seconds

2004

Lightning Stakes 1st Regimental Gal 57 seconds

2003

Lightning Stakes 1st Choisir 56.9 seconds

2002

Lightning Stakes 1st Spinning Hill 57.1 seconds

2001

Lightning Stakes 1st Sports 57 seconds

2000

Lightning Stakes 1st Testa Rossa 56 seconds

Read more: http://www.races.com.au/races/group-1/lightning-stakes/#ixzz1mmfwVK9L

Part of the Panda Network, home of the $400 free bet bonus

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Except for Testa Rossa - Black Caviar would have beaten the above horses by a minimum of 5 lengths.

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what a race, the who's who of Australian sprinters littered amongst that list, including some champions in the placed division

what about the effort of DESIRABLE in 1976 winning it as a 2yo, and Flaunting ran third in that race also a 2yo

greats such as Black Onyx, Citius, Takeover Target, Maybe Mahal, Placid Ark, Schillaci, Shaftesbury Avenue, Mahogany etc etc

Good to see a race yesterday not a farce like the CF Orr , may it continue...

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what a race, the who's who of Australian sprinters littered amongst that list, including some champions in the placed division

what about the effort of DESIRABLE in 1976 winning it as a 2yo, and Flaunting ran third in that race also a 2yo

greats such as Black Onyx, Citius, Takeover Target, Maybe Mahal, Placid Ark, Schillaci, Shaftesbury Avenue, Mahogany etc etc

Good to see a race yesterday not a farce like the CF Orr , may it continue...

Notice Black Caviars grand dam was third in 1999.

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Except for Testa Rossa - Black Caviar would have beaten the above horses by a minimum of 5 lengths.

LMFAO

funniest post ever...

one day you may realise the winners time is decided by the opposition and their tactics as well as it's own....

based on your "logic" Black Sardine would have been flat out winning most CF Orr stakes...

unreal.........

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Lots.......but not all the way back to 1955. She is in good company then. ]

I disagree - there are some good horses all the way through - Weona Girl, Sky High, Todman. But it just shows you comparing past winners can be deceptive - the past winners of the CF ORR is even more impressive.

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LMFAO

funniest post ever...

one day you may realise the winners time is decided by the opposition and their tactics as well as it's own....

based on your "logic" Black Sardine would have been flat out winning most CF Orr stakes...

unreal.........

I don't disagree Pogo but if you weren't so quick to mock you would realise the context in which I wrote that post. Centrofold had a dig at the handicappers comment regarding Black Caviar able to beat Hay List by 2.8 lengths. 1/5th of a second is considered in the handicapping arcane science as 1 length. That aside given her run yesterday Black Caviar would have donkey licked all the winners in the last ten years.

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I don't disagree Pogo but if you weren't so quick to mock you would realise the context in which I wrote that post. Centrofold had a dig at the handicappers comment regarding Black Caviar able to beat Hay List by 2.8 lengths. 1/5th of a second is considered in the handicapping arcane science as 1 length. That aside given her run yesterday Black Caviar would have donkey licked all the winners in the last ten years.

that depends on your assessment of donkey licked...

did Black Sardine "donkey lick " Hay List ?

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that depends on your assessment of donkey licked...

did Black Sardine "donkey lick " Hay List ?

No but given the margin, the time and the easing down to the line I would say comprehensive.

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I disagree - there are some good horses all the way through - Weona Girl, Sky High, Todman. But it just shows you comparing past winners can be deceptive - the past winners of the CF ORR is even more impressive.

I think you misunderstood the meaning of my post. I will try to put it another way .............

1. I don't remember way back to 1955 because I did not arrive in this country until the 1960's.

2. She is in good company then. Meaning that there are impressive racehorses who have won the race. (generally speaking)

3. Where are the times? ----- meaning, there were no times for the winners in your post and I was thinking "What were the times for the race by the winners".

Just out of interest.

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I think you misunderstood the meaning of my post. I will try to put it another way .............

1. I don't remember way back to 1955 because I did not arrive in this country until the 1960's.

2. She is in good company then. Meaning that there are impressive racehorses who have won the race. (generally speaking)

3. Where are the times? ----- meaning, there were no times for the winners in your post and I was thinking "What were the times for the race by the winners".

Just out of interest.

I could only find the last 10 years .....

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emphatic......

Yes and I thought that that run would have flattened her but according to reports from Peter Moody she seems to be fine and they are nominating for the Futurity! Will Muthasa turn up? Who will?

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what a race, the who's who of Australian sprinters littered amongst that list, including some champions in the placed division

what about the effort of DESIRABLE in 1976 winning it as a 2yo, and Flaunting ran third in that race also a 2yo

greats such as Black Onyx, Citius, Takeover Target, Maybe Mahal, Placid Ark, Schillaci, Shaftesbury Avenue, Mahogany etc etc

Good to see a race yesterday not a farce like the CF Orr , may it continue...

And noted..... Some very impressive thoroughbreds amongst them who did not impress just by the sectionals they ran in the race :)

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Yes and I thought that that run would have flattened her but according to reports from Peter Moody she seems to be fine and they are nominating for the Futurity! Will Muthasa turn up? Who will?

illo

precence

efficient

danzylum

midas touch

green moon

et al

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Yes and I thought that that run would have flattened her but according to reports from Peter Moody she seems to be fine and they are nominating for the Futurity! Will Muthasa turn up? Who will?

Isn't Peter undecided about the Futurity Stakes. I think he said a decision will be made tomorrow. As for Mufhasa turning up. mmmm, what do you reckon?

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Isn't Peter undecided about the Futurity Stakes. I think he said a decision will be made tomorrow. As for Mufhasa turning up. mmmm, what do you reckon?

Latest news item is he will nominate and decide later in the week.

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