Ohokaman 5,762 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 For a split second, before she stared down those challengers, leaned forward, got her head lower and put a space on the chasers, it looked as though she might be in a real dogfight for the first time in her life. But it was only illusory, as her regular rider Luke Nolen, as always, eased down as soon as he could and let her coast over the line, 1¾ lengths to the good. It was when the race time flashed up that those interested in such measurements realised the immensity of her achievement, something professionals had even more confirmation of seconds later when the printouts displaying the sectional times became available. Not only had her race time all but equalled the 55.5 seconds record set by the flying filly Special in this event in 1988, but her splits during the contest were extraordinary. Black Caviar ran the 600 metres between the 800 metres and the 200 metres in 30.59 seconds, a phenomenal average of 10.2 seconds per 200 metres, and the 200 metres between the 600 and 400 in an astonishing 9.98 seconds. Such numbers are unbelievable. There are fewer more sober judges than a senior handicapper and Greg Carpenter, Racing Victoria's chief weights and measures man, could only shake his head in disbelief. ''Not everywhere has sectional times,'' he said with a smile, ''but I have never, anywhere, seen or heard of a horse breaking 10 seconds for a 200-metre sectional.'' Enough said I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 Is this the same Greg Carpenter who said that Black Caviar could win the Lightening Stakes by 2.8 lengths? So Hay List ran better than he expected? They mentioned the sectionals on Australian Racing Retro this morning. The panel had their mouths hanging open too. So the record still stands at 55.5 for the Lightening. When was that, the 1980's? Record was Special in 1988. Geez Centrofold she won by 1.75 lengths easing down - I guess Carpenter wasn't too far away with his guestimate of 2.8. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrofold 147 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 Yeah OK, I am splitting hairs. She still didn't break the record so why are people raving it is the best they have ever seen? 1988 was not that long ago. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 Yeah OK, I am splitting hairs. She still didn't break the record so why are people raving it is the best they have ever seen? 1988 was not that long ago. For a start here is a list of the previous winners of the Lightening - recognise any of them? Year Winner Jockey Trainer Second Third 2010 Nicconi Damien Oliver David Hayes Wanted Shellscrape 2009 Scenic Blast Steven Arnold Daniel Morton Typhoon Zed Grand Duels 2008 Apache Cat Corey Brown Greg Eurell Swick Stanzout 2007 Miss Andretti Craig Newitt Lee Freedman Magnus Ticklish 2006 Takeover Target Jay Ford Joe Janiak God's Own Cape of Good Hope 2005 Fastnet Rock Glen Boss Paul Perry Alinghi Cape of Good Hope 2004 Regimental Gal Steven King Shaun Dwyer Our Egyptian Raine Mistegic 2003 Choisir Glen Boss Paul Perry Spinning Hill Azavedo 2002 Spinning Hill Steven Arnold Guy Walter Mistegic Chong Tong 2001 Sports Darren Gauci John Hawkes Black Bean Easy Rocking 2000 Testa Rossa Damien Oliver Dean Lawson Falvelon Magic Music 1999 Isca Greg Childs Peter Hayes Toledo Scandanavia 1998 General Nediym Brian York Bill Mitchell Notoire Show No Emotion 1997 Mahogany Greg Hall Lee Freedman Cangronde Spartacus 1996 Gold Ace Damien Oliver Lee Freedman Strategic Sequalo 1995 Mahogany Greg Hall Lee Freedman Alannon Keltrice 1994 Keltrice Steven King Ian Harrison Schillaci Kenvain 1993 Schillaci Damien Oliver Lee Freedman Clever Zoe Oozook 1992 Schillaci Damien Oliver Lee Freedman Umatilla Wrap Around 1991 Shaftesbury Avenue Jim Cassidy Bart Cummings Bureaucracy Lightning Bend 1990 Redelva Neville Wilson Greg Varcoe Show County Strawberry Ranch 1989 Zeditave Greg Hall Angus Armanasco Special Clay Hero 1988 Special Michael Clarke Colin Hayes Snippets Redelva 1987 Placid Ark John Scorse Wally Mitchell Special Canny Lass 1986 Hula Chief Darren Gauci Bart Cummings Rory's Jester Dazzling Duke 1985 River Rough Michael Clarke Bob Hoysted High Signal Feeling Fit 1984 River Rough Rod Dawkins Bob Hoysted Red Tempo Nouvelle Star 1983 Demus Rod Dawkins Bart Cummings Manikato Razor Sharp 1982 He's A Haze Midge Didham Ray Hutchins Razor Sharp Papal Bull 1981 Countess Marizza Des Coleman Eddie Laing Old Breck Totonera 1980 Sportscast Jim Courtney Colin Hayes Mr. Magic Turf Ruler 1979 The Judge Harry White Angus Armanasco Mistress Anne Kero 1978 Maybe Mahal John Stocker Bart Cummings Blazing Saddles Tincture 1977 Maybe Mahal Roy Higgins Bart Cummings Desirable Better Draw 1976 Desirable Malcolm Johnston Colin Hayes Leica Show Flaunting 1975 Cap D'antibes Harry White Bart Cummings Aurealis Hartshill 1974 Century Roy Higgins Bart Cummings John's Hope Idolou 1973 Make Mine Roses Alby King Bob Hoysted Beaches Abinger 1972 Zambari Harry White Tommy Smith Tauto Abinger 1971 Dual Choice Pat Hyland Ken White Tauto Baguette 1970 Black Onyx Harry White Tommy Smith Joking Swift And Sure = 3 Mister Hush = 3 1969 Mister Hush Pat Hyland Con Doyle Magic Ruler Crown Lad 1968 Begonia Belle Pat Hyland Meggs Elkington Marmion Maritana 1967 Storm Queen Roy Higgins Bart Cummings Redcap Marmion 1966 Citius Peter Gumbleton Bill Murrell Bowl King Star Affair 1965 Marmion Bob Durey Les Carstens Star of Heaven Light Fingers 1964 Wenona Girl Bill Pyers Maurice McCarten Ripa Downswept 1963 Wenona Girl Bill Williamson Maurice McCarten Proud Miss Sky High 1962 Sky High George Moore Jack Green Aquanita My Peak 1961 Sky High Neville Sellwood Jack Green Tudor Hill My Peak 1960 Todman Neville Sellwood Maurice McCarten Gay Port Anonyme 1959 Ritmar Brian Pulbrook Stan Murphy Skyline Pride of Colorado 1958 Misting Neville Pyatt V. Ryan Dubbo Kingster 1957 Copper Year Bill Williamson W.L. Boyle Matrice Arganda 1956 Apple Bay Bill Williamson Tommy Smith Kingster Matrice 1955 Gay Vista Billy Cook L.J. O'Sullivan Clear Springs Coulper Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrofold 147 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 For a start here is a list of the previous winners of the Lightening - recognise any of them? Year Winner Jockey Trainer Second Third 2010 Nicconi Damien Oliver David Hayes Wanted Shellscrape 2009 Scenic Blast Steven Arnold Daniel Morton Typhoon Zed Grand Duels 2008 Apache Cat Corey Brown Greg Eurell Swick Stanzout 2007 Miss Andretti Craig Newitt Lee Freedman Magnus Ticklish 2006 Takeover Target Jay Ford Joe Janiak God's Own Cape of Good Hope 2005 Fastnet Rock Glen Boss Paul Perry Alinghi Cape of Good Hope 2004 Regimental Gal Steven King Shaun Dwyer Our Egyptian Raine Mistegic 2003 Choisir Glen Boss Paul Perry Spinning Hill Azavedo 2002 Spinning Hill Steven Arnold Guy Walter Mistegic Chong Tong 2001 Sports Darren Gauci John Hawkes Black Bean Easy Rocking 2000 Testa Rossa Damien Oliver Dean Lawson Falvelon Magic Music 1999 Isca Greg Childs Peter Hayes Toledo Scandanavia 1998 General Nediym Brian York Bill Mitchell Notoire Show No Emotion 1997 Mahogany Greg Hall Lee Freedman Cangronde Spartacus 1996 Gold Ace Damien Oliver Lee Freedman Strategic Sequalo 1995 Mahogany Greg Hall Lee Freedman Alannon Keltrice 1994 Keltrice Steven King Ian Harrison Schillaci Kenvain 1993 Schillaci Damien Oliver Lee Freedman Clever Zoe Oozook 1992 Schillaci Damien Oliver Lee Freedman Umatilla Wrap Around 1991 Shaftesbury Avenue Jim Cassidy Bart Cummings Bureaucracy Lightning Bend 1990 Redelva Neville Wilson Greg Varcoe Show County Strawberry Ranch 1989 Zeditave Greg Hall Angus Armanasco Special Clay Hero 1988 Special Michael Clarke Colin Hayes Snippets Redelva 1987 Placid Ark John Scorse Wally Mitchell Special Canny Lass 1986 Hula Chief Darren Gauci Bart Cummings Rory's Jester Dazzling Duke 1985 River Rough Michael Clarke Bob Hoysted High Signal Feeling Fit 1984 River Rough Rod Dawkins Bob Hoysted Red Tempo Nouvelle Star 1983 Demus Rod Dawkins Bart Cummings Manikato Razor Sharp 1982 He's A Haze Midge Didham Ray Hutchins Razor Sharp Papal Bull 1981 Countess Marizza Des Coleman Eddie Laing Old Breck Totonera 1980 Sportscast Jim Courtney Colin Hayes Mr. Magic Turf Ruler 1979 The Judge Harry White Angus Armanasco Mistress Anne Kero 1978 Maybe Mahal John Stocker Bart Cummings Blazing Saddles Tincture 1977 Maybe Mahal Roy Higgins Bart Cummings Desirable Better Draw 1976 Desirable Malcolm Johnston Colin Hayes Leica Show Flaunting 1975 Cap D'antibes Harry White Bart Cummings Aurealis Hartshill 1974 Century Roy Higgins Bart Cummings John's Hope Idolou 1973 Make Mine Roses Alby King Bob Hoysted Beaches Abinger 1972 Zambari Harry White Tommy Smith Tauto Abinger 1971 Dual Choice Pat Hyland Ken White Tauto Baguette 1970 Black Onyx Harry White Tommy Smith Joking Swift And Sure = 3 Mister Hush = 3 1969 Mister Hush Pat Hyland Con Doyle Magic Ruler Crown Lad 1968 Begonia Belle Pat Hyland Meggs Elkington Marmion Maritana 1967 Storm Queen Roy Higgins Bart Cummings Redcap Marmion 1966 Citius Peter Gumbleton Bill Murrell Bowl King Star Affair 1965 Marmion Bob Durey Les Carstens Star of Heaven Light Fingers 1964 Wenona Girl Bill Pyers Maurice McCarten Ripa Downswept 1963 Wenona Girl Bill Williamson Maurice McCarten Proud Miss Sky High 1962 Sky High George Moore Jack Green Aquanita My Peak 1961 Sky High Neville Sellwood Jack Green Tudor Hill My Peak 1960 Todman Neville Sellwood Maurice McCarten Gay Port Anonyme 1959 Ritmar Brian Pulbrook Stan Murphy Skyline Pride of Colorado 1958 Misting Neville Pyatt V. Ryan Dubbo Kingster 1957 Copper Year Bill Williamson W.L. Boyle Matrice Arganda 1956 Apple Bay Bill Williamson Tommy Smith Kingster Matrice 1955 Gay Vista Billy Cook L.J. O'Sullivan Clear Springs Coulper Lots.......but not all the way back to 1955. She is in good company then. Where are the times? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 Some facts about the Group One $750,000 Lightning Stakes (1000m) at Flemington on Saturday.- At weight-for-age and first run in 1955 when won by Gay Vista. Group Two from 1980-86 and Group One from 1987. The race has been won by some of Australasia's greatest sprinters including Todman (1960), Sky High (1961-62), Wenona Girl (1963-64), Citius (1966), Storm Queen (1967), Black Onyx (1970), Dual Choice (1971), Century (1974), Maybe Mahal (1977-78), River Rough (1984-85), Placid Ark (1987), Special (1988), Shaftesbury Avenue (1991), Schillaci (1992-93), Mahogany (1995, 1997), General Nediym (1998), Testa Rossa (2000), Spinning Hill (2002), Choisir (2003), Fastnet Rock (2005), Takeover Target (2006), MISS ANDRETTI (2007), Apache Cat (2008), Scenic Blast (2009), Black Caviar (2011). Six horses have won the Lightning Stakes twice: Mahogany (1995, 1997), Schillaci (1992-93), River Rough (1984-85), Maybe Mahal (1977-78), Wenona Girl (1963-64) and Sky High (1961-62). Black Caviar will be out to join them on Saturday. Bart Cummings holds the record for the number of wins at seven but does not have a runner. His winners are Storm Queen 1967, Century 1974, Cap d'Antibes 1975, Maybe Mahal 1977 and 1978, Hula Chief 1986, Shaftesbury Avenue 1991. Trainers who have won the race before and have a runner this year: Peter Moody - Black Caviar (Black Caviar 2011). Winning jockeys with rides this year: Luke Nolen - Black Caviar (Black Caviar 2011); Glen Boss - Lone Rock (Fastnet Rock 2005, Choisir 2003). Three-year-olds have won eight of the last 18 runnings, the latest being Fastnet Rock in 2005. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 Recent Lightning Stakes Winners Year Place Horse Time 2011 Lightning Stakes 1st Black Caviar 57.20 seconds 2010 Lightning Stakes 1st Nicconi 57.12 seconds 2009 Lightning Stakes 1st Scenic Blast 56.9 seconds 2008 Lightning Stakes 1st Apache Cat 57.3 seconds 2007 Lightning Stakes 1st Miss Andretti 57.2 seconds 2006 Lightning Stakes 1st Takeover Target 56.8 seconds 2005 Lightning Stakes 1st Fastnet Rock 57.3 seconds 2004 Lightning Stakes 1st Regimental Gal 57 seconds 2003 Lightning Stakes 1st Choisir 56.9 seconds 2002 Lightning Stakes 1st Spinning Hill 57.1 seconds 2001 Lightning Stakes 1st Sports 57 seconds 2000 Lightning Stakes 1st Testa Rossa 56 seconds Read more: http://www.races.com.au/races/group-1/lightning-stakes/#ixzz1mmfwVK9L Part of the Panda Network, home of the $400 free bet bonus Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 Except for Testa Rossa - Black Caviar would have beaten the above horses by a minimum of 5 lengths. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogo 0 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 what a race, the who's who of Australian sprinters littered amongst that list, including some champions in the placed division what about the effort of DESIRABLE in 1976 winning it as a 2yo, and Flaunting ran third in that race also a 2yo greats such as Black Onyx, Citius, Takeover Target, Maybe Mahal, Placid Ark, Schillaci, Shaftesbury Avenue, Mahogany etc etc Good to see a race yesterday not a farce like the CF Orr , may it continue... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 what a race, the who's who of Australian sprinters littered amongst that list, including some champions in the placed division what about the effort of DESIRABLE in 1976 winning it as a 2yo, and Flaunting ran third in that race also a 2yo greats such as Black Onyx, Citius, Takeover Target, Maybe Mahal, Placid Ark, Schillaci, Shaftesbury Avenue, Mahogany etc etc Good to see a race yesterday not a farce like the CF Orr , may it continue... Notice Black Caviars grand dam was third in 1999. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogo 0 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 Except for Testa Rossa - Black Caviar would have beaten the above horses by a minimum of 5 lengths. LMFAO funniest post ever... one day you may realise the winners time is decided by the opposition and their tactics as well as it's own.... based on your "logic" Black Sardine would have been flat out winning most CF Orr stakes... unreal......... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 Lots.......but not all the way back to 1955. She is in good company then. ] I disagree - there are some good horses all the way through - Weona Girl, Sky High, Todman. But it just shows you comparing past winners can be deceptive - the past winners of the CF ORR is even more impressive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 LMFAO funniest post ever... one day you may realise the winners time is decided by the opposition and their tactics as well as it's own.... based on your "logic" Black Sardine would have been flat out winning most CF Orr stakes... unreal......... I don't disagree Pogo but if you weren't so quick to mock you would realise the context in which I wrote that post. Centrofold had a dig at the handicappers comment regarding Black Caviar able to beat Hay List by 2.8 lengths. 1/5th of a second is considered in the handicapping arcane science as 1 length. That aside given her run yesterday Black Caviar would have donkey licked all the winners in the last ten years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogo 0 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 I don't disagree Pogo but if you weren't so quick to mock you would realise the context in which I wrote that post. Centrofold had a dig at the handicappers comment regarding Black Caviar able to beat Hay List by 2.8 lengths. 1/5th of a second is considered in the handicapping arcane science as 1 length. That aside given her run yesterday Black Caviar would have donkey licked all the winners in the last ten years. that depends on your assessment of donkey licked... did Black Sardine "donkey lick " Hay List ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 that depends on your assessment of donkey licked... did Black Sardine "donkey lick " Hay List ? No but given the margin, the time and the easing down to the line I would say comprehensive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogo 0 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 No but given the margin, the time and the easing down to the line I would say comprehensive. emphatic...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrofold 147 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 I disagree - there are some good horses all the way through - Weona Girl, Sky High, Todman. But it just shows you comparing past winners can be deceptive - the past winners of the CF ORR is even more impressive. I think you misunderstood the meaning of my post. I will try to put it another way ............. 1. I don't remember way back to 1955 because I did not arrive in this country until the 1960's. 2. She is in good company then. Meaning that there are impressive racehorses who have won the race. (generally speaking) 3. Where are the times? ----- meaning, there were no times for the winners in your post and I was thinking "What were the times for the race by the winners". Just out of interest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 I think you misunderstood the meaning of my post. I will try to put it another way ............. 1. I don't remember way back to 1955 because I did not arrive in this country until the 1960's. 2. She is in good company then. Meaning that there are impressive racehorses who have won the race. (generally speaking) 3. Where are the times? ----- meaning, there were no times for the winners in your post and I was thinking "What were the times for the race by the winners". Just out of interest. I could only find the last 10 years ..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 emphatic...... Yes and I thought that that run would have flattened her but according to reports from Peter Moody she seems to be fine and they are nominating for the Futurity! Will Muthasa turn up? Who will? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrofold 147 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 what a race, the who's who of Australian sprinters littered amongst that list, including some champions in the placed division what about the effort of DESIRABLE in 1976 winning it as a 2yo, and Flaunting ran third in that race also a 2yo greats such as Black Onyx, Citius, Takeover Target, Maybe Mahal, Placid Ark, Schillaci, Shaftesbury Avenue, Mahogany etc etc Good to see a race yesterday not a farce like the CF Orr , may it continue... And noted..... Some very impressive thoroughbreds amongst them who did not impress just by the sectionals they ran in the race Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrofold 147 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 I could only find the last 10 years ..... Thanks....Well noted thoroughbreds amongst the 10. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pogo 0 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 Yes and I thought that that run would have flattened her but according to reports from Peter Moody she seems to be fine and they are nominating for the Futurity! Will Muthasa turn up? Who will? illo precence efficient danzylum midas touch green moon et al Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrofold 147 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 Yes and I thought that that run would have flattened her but according to reports from Peter Moody she seems to be fine and they are nominating for the Futurity! Will Muthasa turn up? Who will? Isn't Peter undecided about the Futurity Stakes. I think he said a decision will be made tomorrow. As for Mufhasa turning up. mmmm, what do you reckon? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 Isn't Peter undecided about the Futurity Stakes. I think he said a decision will be made tomorrow. As for Mufhasa turning up. mmmm, what do you reckon? Latest news item is he will nominate and decide later in the week. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrofold 147 Report post Posted February 19, 2012 Latest news item is he will nominate and decide later in the week. That has changed since Australian Racing Retro this morning then? I was going by the words that came out of his mouth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...