foxy 0 Report post Posted December 3, 2011 We have had a few top class jockeys over the years - Cassidy, O'Sullivan, Thompson, McDonald etc but on the whole our jocks are pretty ordinary and most wouldn't be able to foot it in Sydney or Melbourne. Take Derek Nolan (nothing against the guy) - he was simply a trackwork rider in Sydney. Comes over here and is riding on the flat on Saturdays. He wouldn't get a ride at Rosehill or Randwick on a Saturday in a million years. Didn't even take out a license when he was there. Question answered? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedley 1,900 Report post Posted December 3, 2011 We have had a few top class jockeys over the years - Cassidy, O'Sullivan, Thompson, McDonald etc but on the whole our jocks are pretty ordinary and most wouldn't be able to foot it in Sydney or Melbourne. Take Derek Nolan (nothing against the guy) - he was simply a trackwork rider in Sydney. Comes over here and is riding on the flat on Saturdays. He wouldn't get a ride at Rosehill or Randwick on a Saturday in a million years. Didn't even take out a license when he was there. Question answered?..Foxy., not agin th'guy Either., indeed that just vouches for the depth of choice 'over there', as appart from his first dozen or so rides, Derek's adapted to 'our styles of riding and pace-set'...quite well and 'quickly' ..and he's connected to rides he suits and many he 'knows' too...been delivering very well i believe. remaining myopic and dedicated immersed...the way he seems to be, can only mean a higher quality of ride and the finesses too., i 'know' he has an outstanding work~ethic., . .That's :y:been expoused:cool: Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrofold 147 Report post Posted December 3, 2011 Sam Spratt certainly rated today. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedley 1,900 Report post Posted December 3, 2011 So you can't name one British rider and you have 75+ million population, but you demand we provide world class riders from our 4.5 million, and ours is an impoverished third world racing industry with no succession planning and no educational facilities....think about it....then apologise Berri. :cool::DWe are a remarkable country and we do well in spite of the likes of :mad:NZTR, :y:not because of them. Those who criticise jockeys merely show how ignorant they are of the 'system' and the handicaps and impediments these little battlers have to overcome to make it at any level in this industry. Don't join the ignorant knockers Berri, join the supporters and battlers. Hi from NZ Berri., . .veryVery hard here 'these days'..compared with other jurisdicts., ..down to petrol vouchers'n'promises for many here mate., the sherrif's batted well on their behalf., protecting dearly...their dour resolute Hard~yards daily. (:heart::tcheek: a Delliset of 15hrs in many instances) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berri 2,131 Report post Posted December 4, 2011 So you can't name one British rider and you have 75+ million population, but you demand we provide world class riders from our 4.5 million,.... Don't join the ignorant knockers Berri, join the supporters and battlers. with what you are saying in respect of how well our horsemen are achieving. I thought this discussion was on how good they were...didn't matter what country they came from....If you watch a guys golf swing, or tennis serve or rugby swerve, you compare them with what is regarded as the best. To be the best you should copy the best. You do this to the best of your ability. So when it comes down to jockeys, if all jockeys in New Zealand supported the proposition that there was a way of being a better jockey, then that is what they should aspire to. For the couch potatoes such as me, my proposition is that many don't look pretty riding out a finish when compared to the jockeys that I mentioned. Therefore my argument would be that if New Zealand wanted to visually improve the image of our racing (thereby making it more visually appealing and therefore more valuable) , then the jockeys could play there part by pursuing excellence in the style of riding. This might actually help lift the game. You see the difference when a Lance O'Sullivan or a James McDonald arrives on the scene. I got James the opportunity to ride for Ed Dunlop when he was in the UK because I thought he was top class. He showed he was. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
young gun 0 Report post Posted December 4, 2011 I have to agree with what you've said too. All I can do is admire what these guys do and how hard it must be. I find Leith to be good in the first couple, put him back in the field and he manages to find dead ends easier than most. Very similar to Coleman. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruff 2,778 Report post Posted December 4, 2011 He took a sit on seaflyte behind a horse who if you done your homework you shouldn't have in air cadet.. There wasn't any pressure on him to do so and when your riding a horse who led all the way in the dunstan championship over distance on track you shouldn't need to take an unecessary risk.? Riding instructions If a rider is made to look average by obeying bad instructions the person responsible should Be mentioned in stipes report!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traka 114 Report post Posted December 7, 2011 I know people on here are not "allowed" to comment on rides by jockeys as this is not a "jockey bashing" site, but how anyone can defend those that rode in the first today from Ellerslie (other than the winner) is beyond me, hell Im only a grandstand jockey yet I was wondering just when it was that my rider was going to show any urgency at the 600 as the leader was creeping away in the lead. Just as the leader puts 6lths on them at the turn did anyone show any concern, wayyyy to late. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Clydesdale 229 Report post Posted December 8, 2011 Jason Collett is a world class rider, two sisters are good as well, McDonald is pretty good but a little untidy for me, Ormsby a top jock as well, Tinsley could compete anywhere, and the old pro Handbrake has all the skills but age is against him. Much much better than you get in the USA, that's for sure. We have the class available to us here, just not numerically strong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony McGovern 15 Report post Posted December 8, 2011 Jason Collett is a world class rider, two sisters are good as well, McDonald is pretty good but a little untidy for me, Ormsby a top jock as well, Tinsley could compete anywhere, and the old pro Handbrake has all the skills but age is against him. Much much better than you get in the USA, that's for sure. We have the class available to us here, just not numerically strong. James didn't look out of place last night against some of the best jocks in the world, and I had a pretty good view of it all. He also handled himself very well with all the hype that surrounds this carnival, a credit to his mentor(s). Got a big wrap from the local commentators and also impressed the bosses enough to say they would be keen to see him back at some stage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruff 2,778 Report post Posted December 8, 2011 I know people on here are not "allowed" to comment on rides by jockeys as this is not a "jockey bashing" site, but how anyone can defend those that rode in the first today from Ellerslie (other than the winner) is beyond me, hell Im only a grandstand jockey yet I was wondering just when it was that my rider was going to show any urgency at the 600 as the leader was creeping away in the lead. Just as the leader puts 6lths on them at the turn did anyone show any concern, wayyyy to late. . I didn't see the 'race' traka but going by the time they ran if you were in the lead You were tough to roll, 2.21.8 !! At a guess I'd say probably came home in 35.60 which would equate around a 1.46 opening mile.... Woeful, you backed a back runner here you got tucked Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sporty 0 Report post Posted December 8, 2011 James didn't look out of place last night against some of the best jocks in the world, and I had a pretty good view of it all. He also handled himself very well with all the hype that surrounds this carnival, a credit to his mentor(s). Got a big wrap from the local commentators and also impressed the bosses enough to say they would be keen to see him back at some stage. Yeh he looked alright on this the other night.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrofold 147 Report post Posted December 8, 2011 James didn't look out of place last night against some of the best jocks in the world, and I had a pretty good view of it all. He also handled himself very well with all the hype that surrounds this carnival, a credit to his mentor(s). Got a big wrap from the local commentators and also impressed the bosses enough to say they would be keen to see him back at some stage. He is an excellent jockey and such a nice young man too. He deserves all the good press he gets. I read that he finished 2nd the other night. So yes, some Kiwi jockeys rate up there with the world's best. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Clydesdale 229 Report post Posted December 9, 2011 My comment was directed more at the manner in which he gathers his reins as he is positioning his run home. Not knocking his capability, just the aspect of style and as the reference was at how our jocks capabilities compared on the world stage, and he answered the question quite clearly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedley 1,900 Report post Posted March 7, 2012 ..Foxy., not agin th'guy Either., indeed that just vouches for the depth of choice 'over there', as appart from his first dozen or so rides, Derek's adapted to 'our styles of riding and pace-set'...quite well and 'quickly' ..and he's connected to rides he suits and many he 'knows' too...been delivering very well i believe. remaining myopic and dedicated immersed...the way he seems to be, can only mean a higher quality of ride and the finesses too., i 'know' he has an outstanding work~ethic., . .That's :y:been expoused:cool: :y:How Fair's THAT ! ..well done winning th'last on AUCKLAND~CUP :Day Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colomina 0 Report post Posted March 7, 2012 I've ridden trackwork all my life, a Kiwi in Oz now, training and riding track here. The riders, even Group 1 Jockeys here seem to be very backward in basic horse sense and skill. Accross the board. I rode trackwork for Bart Cummings, Paul Perry, Max and Chris Lees etc... and I was stumped at the lack of skill their riders and handlers had. I think if NZr's stepped over here to Oz they would be able to dominate easily. However the riders here are calice, cold hearted, will run you and your horse through the rail without batting an eyelid so I think Kiwi riders would have to be more brutal and defensive outside of NZ. I still want a Kiwi Jockey over here if any are keen... Need one for New Caledonia stable and also another one for here, in Queensland, don't want Oz Jockeys on my good horses! Email colomina@bigpond.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Apprentice 1 Report post Posted March 7, 2012 Perhaps I should send a copy of your stupid rantings to: Luke Nolan Craig Williams Michael Rodd Damian Oliver Glen Boss Hugh Bowman Do I need to go on? What a stupid statement. The only part of your rant is part sense is that the NZ Jocks who come here to ride need to "toughen up". They need to adapt to the local style (read, "tight racing - give no quarter) of riding. Fair dinkem, the number of times I've had a horse slaughted by other Jockey's on both sides of the Tasman, suggests to me that every pond has it's cowboys and every pond has it's stars. NZ is no exception, but when they step outside their comfort zone into the Oz cauldren, they need a bit of time to adapt. That's why I would not put anyone from NZ on a horse in Oz until they had that experience over time. Michael Walker is a classic example. He's now adapted and is now capable of delivering the maori sidestep when required. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colomina 0 Report post Posted March 8, 2012 I seem to remember you attacking me when I posted an ad for a jockey too, as if it was there for your discussion!, seems you may have a chip on your shoulder and a bit too much time on your hands!!!! I think the comments of John Wheeler and Brett Scott on Racing TV over here were on the mark, NZ riders just seem to have more horse sense accross the board. There are definate tendancies from country to country. I rode in Japan for 8 months, the Japanese openly told me repetitively the Japanese riders are no good, it's not something they naturally excel at, that's why they imported riders from overseas. They have strengths in other areas, that's not to say some Japanese riders can't excel, I just think the cultures of certain countries support different strengths and weaknesses. But that's just my experience, I think the apprentice should take a chill pill and realize people are entitled to an opinion from their own experiences. If you disagree that's no problem but to go and outright attack someone like a child... someone is a few kicks up the rear end short of a stable balanced outlook on life don't you agree?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindsay carston 81 Report post Posted March 8, 2012 Been watching jockeys for a long time and am a critic watching a race.They are proffessionals and sometimes a bit of flack does them no harm.I think zzz and Leigh make too big a thing of "Jockey Bashing".Youve both ridden and im sure ridden the odd bad one so how did u cop the odd "bashing".Admittedly the bashing on this site usually comes from a disgruntled punter but losing your money on a bad ride gives you some rights.I would like to say im Harrys biggest fan and he has always been one of the worlds best.James Mcdonalds ride in the Derby was outstanding.A jockey that has the balls to go three wide with 12 or 1300 to run in a staying race shows his class I believe.Reminded me of Gerald Mosse's ride on Americain in the melbourne cup.Being on the best horse helps but you still have to make the decision without a lot of time to think about it.Another thing about James is ability to change his whip from left to right in the blink of an eye and thats a huge advantage for a jockey.Most of the best can do it although having said that NGH cant.Probably never needed too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,695 Report post Posted March 8, 2012 Been watching jockeys for a long time and am a critic watching a race.They are proffessionals and sometimes a bit of flack does them no harm.I think Leo and Leigh make too big a thing of "Jockey Bashing".Youve both ridden and im sure ridden the odd bad one so how did u cop the odd "bashing".Admittedly the bashing on this site usually comes from a disgruntled punter but losing your money on a bad ride gives you some rights.I would like to say im Harrys biggest fan and he has always been one of the worlds best.James Mcdonalds ride in the Derby was outstanding.A jockey that has the balls to go three wide with 12 or 1300 to run in a staying race shows his class I believe.Reminded me of Gerald Mosse's ride on Americain in the melbourne cup.Being on the best horse helps but you still have to make the decision without a lot of time to think about it.Another thing about James is ability to change his whip from left to right in the blink of an eye and thats a huge advantage for a jockey.Most of the best can do it although having said that NGH cant.Probably never needed too. I nvr rode a bad race,well nearly nvr,haha.. not that I would admit to anyway. Although one day i nvr pulled the stick on one and Maurice Campbell beat me, as well as winning the race, he hit me 3x on the arm on his way past, he was the strongest rider I think i ever saw. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Apprentice 1 Report post Posted March 8, 2012 I have hit your nerve. Read what I said. You bagged Oz Jocks and told us how good NZ Horsemen were. The facts are, International experience "improves" Jocks. That's why NZ Jocks who go to Oz to ride become even better because they learn to ride "tight". THERE ARE NO PUSSY RUNS (UNLESS YOU HAVE GEORGE MOORE'S WHISTLE) and if you don't adapt you will be spat out. The best example of a Kiwi Jock coming to Oz and adapting so well that they are now very sort after, is Damien Browne. So if you want a Kiwi Jock, book him, but he is now in the class of Jock that can pick his mounts thru Rob Heathcote etc and only a good horse from you might attract him. I wish you luck but don't get hung up re Oz v NZ jocks and horsemanship. There are good and bad on both sides. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
handbrake 0 Report post Posted March 8, 2012 By the way where is Maurice Campbell? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lindsay carston 81 Report post Posted March 9, 2012 Gold Coast Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hedley 1,900 Report post Posted March 24, 2012 :y:How Fair's THAT ! ..well done winning th'last on AUCKLAND~CUP :Day ..he travels as a 'husbandry' jockey, to the Shane Hapeta stable., among his charges was JAFFA JACK that ran In the AucklandCUP...the meet that Derek won th'Last at., well he's Just won at Riccarton on JAFFA JACK . .:y:How good's That:D Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leedsip 0 Report post Posted March 24, 2012 New Zealand riders are good horsemen but that's not the same as being a good jockey which at the top level is a pretty aggressive brutal trade. The top guys in the big racing countries are the hardest ****..rs mentally you'd ever come across i just about any sport. Even the guys like Dettori who are outwardly charming, their eyes tell a different story, while the majority of the top guys like Soumillion and Fallon don't even pretend. Shane Dye, and to a lesser extent Jimmy Cassidy, are probably the only kiwi riders in recent years who are as hard mentally as the really top overseas guys. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...