Who actually won the Sth Island training premiership

[Tesio]

What’s the go here down there, Pitman claims he has won it and I see Love Racing have just put a fluff piece out about Te Akau winning the Sth Island premiership?

[Leggy]

How could Pitty be claiming it when he has only trained 40 winners for the season cf. TA's 45 for the season?

[Chitty Chitty Bang]

Pitty is yesterday.

[Pam Robson]

Bit of a grey/ controversial area there. 

[newbie85]

So if TA are claiming they are South Island Trainers of the year  then Stephen Marsh must be North Island Trainer of the year.

TAB had betting on SI Premiership and TA were never an option.

 

You train from your base 

[Chitty Chitty Bang]

34 minutes ago, Pam Robson said:

Bit of a grey/ controversial area there. 

So what is grey?

[Leggy]

53 minutes ago, Pam Robson said:

Bit of a grey/ controversial area there. 

What is the grey area?

[scooby3051]

1 hour ago, Pam Robson said:

Bit of a grey/ controversial area there. 

So how can Te Akau win the SI premiership when its a satellite stable for the North Island..their base is Matamata.Or am I missing something...seems just another way to screw the SI trainers out of anything.

And yes if they are now based in CHCH then whoever run 2nd in the NI should be the leading trainer there.

To me sorry this is totally wrong.And If Pitman had a satellite stable in the NI and won I would be saying exactly the same.

[scooby3051]

So if thats the case then how can they then reuse the wins from the SI for the NI premiership...how can that work as nobody will ever be able to beat them as they have the most horses in work...Pitmans should be the winners of the SI premiership..am I wrong???

[Muzzaman]

27 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:

So if thats the case then how can they then reuse the wins from the SI for the NI premiership...how can that work as nobody will ever be able to beat them as they have the most horses in work...Pitmans should be the winners of the SI premiership..am I wrong???

You are not wrong Scoobs. Te Akau can send a horse down to the mainland a week before a race and then claim it is a S. I. trained horse after it wins to their tally. Te Akau is a North Island based training establishment with a branch down south. I would hope that Ellis and co dont view it the same way as those fuckwits from NZTR.

[Leggy]

3 hours ago, scooby3051 said:

So if thats the case then how can they then reuse the wins from the SI for the NI premiership...

They can't. The 45 SI wins counted towards the SI premiership are wins by horses permanently based in the SI. The NI premiership, if there even is such a thing, would be wins by horses permanently based in the NI.

[Pam Robson]

9 hours ago, newbie85 said:

So if TA are claiming they are South Island Trainers of the year  then Stephen Marsh must be North Island Trainer of the year.

TAB had betting on SI Premiership and TA were never an option.

 

You train from your base 

Correct.

[Tesio]

5 hours ago, Leggy said:

They can't. The 45 SI wins counted towards the SI premiership are wins by horses permanently based in the SI. The NI premiership, if there even is such a thing, would be wins by horses permanently based in the NI.

How do you classify horses permanently based at their SI branch, they move horses up and down the country between their bases on a very regular occurrence.

[Pam Robson]

To use an analogy...years ago, there were quite a few trainers based on the West Coast.  An awards night used to be held to celebrate,  among other things, the West Coast horse of the year and also the Trainer of the year.

Kevin Myers comes down and scoops up a bag full of wins on the circuit...as he frequently does!  Does that make him the West Coast Trainer of the year?

The TA horses are broken in. educated and sent down to the southern base if they don't appear to be up to northern or Aus competition.   Some,  indeed, only come down for the classics or other selected races. They are ably managed by Hunter but he would be the first to concede that they shouldn't be part of that category. 

[Tesio]

Who writes those Te Akau articles, NZTR or Te Akau (Karen)…..I do wonder some times. 

[Leggy]

15 minutes ago, Tesio said:

How do you classify horses permanently based at their SI branch, they move horses up and down the country between their bases on a very regular occurrence.

It's clearly determined by NZTR records (based on stable returns -SR35s). They can move horses up and down the country all they want but it is a matter of record which of their two bases the horses come from when they win. When stable returns are filed, a training location is specified. If that is Riccarton Park, then wins by that horse count towards the SI premiership. If it is Matamata, then they don't. In the latter category I'm thinking of the likes of Captured by Love and Mehzebeen in the current season which were wins from the Matamata base and don't count towards the SI stable premiership.

So unless there has been some miscount or error, they have won it fair and square.

Here's an example of a recent SI winner that shows that.

[Tesio]

6 minutes ago, Leggy said:

It's clearly determined by NZTR records (based on stable returns -SR35s). They can move horses up and down the country all they want but it is a matter of record which of their two bases the horses come from when they win. When stable returns are filed, a training location is specified. If that is Riccarton Park, then wins by that horse count towards the SI premiership. If it is Matamata, then they don't. In the latter category I'm thinking of the likes of Captured by Love and Mehzebeen in the current season which were wins from the Matamata base and don't count towards the SI stable premiership.

So unless there has been some miscount or error, they have won it fair and square.

“Fair and Square” thats a stretch, the only people who probably think that are Te Akau, NZTR, Tim Mills and You. 

[Tesio]

10 minutes ago, Leggy said:

It's clearly determined by NZTR records (based on stable returns -SR35s). They can move horses up and down the country all they want but it is a matter of record which of their two bases the horses come from when they win. When stable returns are filed, a training location is specified. If that is Riccarton Park, then wins by that horse count towards the SI premiership. If it is Matamata, then they don't. In the latter category I'm thinking of the likes of Captured by Love and Mehzebeen in the current season which were wins from the Matamata base and don't count towards the SI stable premiership.

So unless there has been some miscount or error, they have won it fair and square.

Here's an example of a recent SI winner that shows that.

Purple Prose….a horse that has raced in both the North Island and the South Island this season for Te Akau….not a good example Leggy.

[Leggy]

2 minutes ago, Tesio said:

Purple Prose….a horse that has raced in both the North Island and the South Island this season for Te Akau….not a good example Leggy.

It doesn't matter which island they raced in or won in. Any win in the NI counts towards the total for the SI premiership wherever it is for any horse based in a SI stable. That's the same for all SI stables.

[Who Moi]

Who is Ta Akau's trainer ... Sam Bergerson.  Where does Sam live ... Matamata?  last time I checked Matamata is in the North Island deeming horses trained by Sam as trained by a North Island trainer.  Pitman is the leading South Island trainer

[Chitty Chitty Bang]

10 hours ago, scooby3051 said:

So if thats the case then how can they then reuse the wins from the SI for the NI premiership...how can that work as nobody will ever be able to beat them as they have the most horses in work...Pitmans should be the winners of the SI premiership..am I wrong???

There isn't a NI Premiership is there?  There is a New Zealand Premiership and it doesn't matter where your horses are based ALL wins are counted.

A "South Island" Premiership is a bit of an anachronism.

[Tesio]

2 hours ago, Leggy said:

It doesn't matter which island they raced in or won in. Any win in the NI counts towards the total for the SI premiership wherever it is for any horse based in a SI stable. That's the same for all SI stables.

So what stable was Purple Rose attached to when it raced in the Nth Island earlier this season?

[nomates]

I think the simple solution would be to have a trainers primary base as the deciding factor .

[Mainland Rookie]

Is this any different to say Chris Waller being included in the Melbourne Trainers prem (9th) , stating he wants to improve on it next season. This happens everywhere.

TA looks to of won and that’s it. Also do the North Island recognise a NI premiership? 

[scooby3051]

1 hour ago, nomates said:

I think the simple solution would be to have a trainers primary base as the deciding factor .

100% agree...this is not fair and I know a few owners who had horses win in the South and race in the North..it should only be where the main base is, this is a bit like the horse of the year a few seasons back...it is totally wrong...South Island trainers work just as hard as North island ones do and they should have their efforts recognized too...sorry this aint fair.