Ellerslie track conditions ...

[racingoutsider 392]

58 minutes ago, TurnipOrange said:

Both HK tracks are Strathayr and do not have a penetrometer reading just G, GF, GY, Y,

I'm pretty sure they have a full range of readings available related to penetrometer readings but including other factors. Though as you say, never worse than yielding as far as I remember. Penetrometer readings are still the primary determinant there though as they are for all other tracks here, so I don't see why Ellerslie don't provide them or use them.

Going (Turf Track)
Going		Penetrometer Reading
Firm	F	< 2.50
Good To Firm	G/F	2.50 - 2.75
Good	G	2.75 - 3.00
Good To Yielding	G/Y	3.00 - 3.25
Yielding	Y	3.25 - 3.50
Yielding To Soft	Y/S	> 3.50
Soft	S
Heavy	H

It should be noted that penetrometer readings are used as reference for determining track going; jockeys opinion, turf surface and weather conditions are also taken into account.

[Canterbury Man 191]

How many commenting on the Ellerslie track have walked it?

I have three times.

[Nerula 1,562]

4 hours ago, stodge said:

Thanks for the explanation, my friend. I know it’s used as a surface in a number of jurisdictions but not in Europe to my knowledge - why, I don’t know, perhaps the colder winter climate.

I presume it takes large quantities of rain falling in a short time well.

As you say, it’s not natural ground - whether you should call it a synthetic surface is another question. I suppose from a form analysis standpoint the question is are any horses actively unsuited by Strathayr such that their form on that surface is well off the level on “normal” turf. Do, for example, horses which run well on Polytrack produce the same level of form on Strathayr?

From what I’ve seen so far, it seems a perfectly good surface but track preparation is the key.
 

It will ever be "horses for courses" That is part of the tapestry of racing. I imagine Strathayr is not used in climes that get icy as you might get a frozen zone reinforced with mesh

[Canterbury Man 191]

24 minutes ago, Nerula said:

It will ever be "horses for courses" That is part of the tapestry of racing. I imagine Strathayr is not used in climes that get icy as you might get a frozen zone reinforced with mesh

That is the standard StrathAyr.  Ellerslie is customised and as many have said on this thread - "unique".  Primarily in the type of "Growing Medium" used.

[racingoutsider 392]

4 hours ago, Canterbury Man said:

That is the standard StrathAyr.  Ellerslie is customised and as many have said on this thread - "unique".  Primarily in the type of "Growing Medium" used.

Also in the grass mix. It wasn't the Strathayr turf and evidently included a spreading rhizome rye grass which created the dense matting problem which now has to be continually chopped up to prevent the track becoming slippery when firm with rain on it.

[scooby3051 13,197]

It got a ton of criticism early on and rightly so...but it seems it has now started to perform much better....with all the rain there was last week to even conduct a race meeting on a soft track everyone should be praising the club but seems for some it is not possible to do that.....

[scooby3051 13,197]

Another false narrative going about with Ellerslie is that you cant run on and win... bearing in mind back runners wherever the races are run win far less than on pace runners. However the stats for Ellerslie are almost the same after the Reno as it was before.

From around 190 races on new track 52% of winners are in the top 4 at the 600, 29% midfield and 19% from worse than midfield. 

That is line with old track and I would suggest any track in New Zealand.  It stands to reason that most win from being in the top 4.  

That said, 48% have won from 5th or worse so once again the Ellerslie haters just make it up as they go along...just as they do with Trentham too.

Give credit where it is due I say.

[racingoutsider 392]

5 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:

That is line with old track and I would suggest any track in New Zealand.  It stands to reason that most win from being in the top 4.  

Where do you get that conclusion from?

[scooby3051 13,197]

5 minutes ago, racingoutsider said:

Where do you get that conclusion from?

From people who know the facts ..unlike yourself and the other people attacking the track.

[racingoutsider 392]

7 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:

From people who know the facts ..unlike yourself and the other people attacking the track.

I am not disagreeing with you. I asked where you got that data. I don't have analysis specific to the old Ellerslie track but yoursagrees with mine though mine is based on position at the 400. Overall, 50% of winners are in the first 4 at the 400, about 20% 5th to 8th. On average, that is true here in Australia, and in NZ. You are arguing with something I never said, for what reason, I've no idea.

[Canterbury Man 191]

23 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:

Another false narrative going about with Ellerslie is that you cant run on and win... bearing in mind back runners wherever the races are run win far less than on pace runners. However the stats for Ellerslie are almost the same after the Reno as it was before.

From around 190 races on new track 52% of winners are in the top 4 at the 600, 29% midfield and 19% from worse than midfield. 

That is line with old track and I would suggest any track in New Zealand.  It stands to reason that most win from being in the top 4.  

That said, 48% have won from 5th or worse so once again the Ellerslie haters just make it up as they go along...just as they do with Trentham too.

Give credit where it is due I say.

Are you going to cite your source?  

[Canterbury Man 191]

30 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:

Another false narrative going about with Ellerslie is that you cant run on and win... bearing in mind back runners wherever the races are run win far less than on pace runners

I don't think anyone is saying you can't they're just saying that it isn't easy.  In my opinion it is harder to improve on the bend than on the old track to get into a position at the top of the straight to attack.

30 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:

That is line with old track

So essentially we have the same pattern as before?  Was the objective NOT to improve the track other than provide a new synthetic surface?

[scooby3051 13,197]

8 minutes ago, Canterbury Man said:

Are you going to cite your source?  

NO and why should I...but it is correct information...dont worry yourself about that Douggie boy.

[scooby3051 13,197]

4 minutes ago, Canterbury Man said:

I don't think anyone is saying you can't they're just saying that it isn't easy.  In my opinion it is harder to improve on the bend than on the old track to get into a position at the top of the straight to attack.

So essentially we have the same pattern as before?  Was the objective NOT to improve the track other than provide a new synthetic surface?

Give it a rest the track is performing outstandingly well...2.9 million bet on it Saturday...it provides a decent winter surface and you just try to denigrate it here and mostly elsewhere as your narrative is way off track and knowledgeable people here pull you up on your way off theories...just tell us why do you have such a dislike for Ellerslie and Trentham???

[Canterbury Man 191]

47 minutes ago, scooby3051 said:

Give it a rest the track is performing outstandingly well...2.9 million bet on it Saturday...it provides a decent winter surface and you just try to denigrate it here and mostly elsewhere as your narrative is way off track and knowledgeable people here pull you up on your way off theories...just tell us why do you have such a dislike for Ellerslie and Trentham???

I'm not sure what your counterpoint actually is.  You have posted some statistics from someone else that don't negate my opinion at all.  You also quote TAB figures again probably supplied to you by your contact at the club (or have they been published publically?) which really are not a measure of how the track performs.  As for disliking Ellerslie and Trentham I don't dislike the Clubs per se however I'm appalled that with all the money spent (and not spent) that neither track are up to international standards and that many in the industry just turn a blind eye.  

[scooby3051 13,197]

Ellerslie is fast proving you wrong...it has performed well ALL season and still you just cant move on...tell me another tack in NZ that could have got that amount of rain and not been a bottomless bog...and you prattle on about it being a synthetic track...its not its a Strathayr GRASS track..nothing synthetic about it, they used modern technology...get with the program Douggie boy...fossils get left behind in the past ....

[scooby3051 13,197]

And for your benefit Doug my source of info is not from the club...I unlike you have a lot of good friendships in the industry.

[Blue 1,232]

As a matter of interest does anyone know just how much rain Ellerslie got leading up to Saturday? Family at Pakuranga reported plenty of wind but not a huge amount of rain. From Wednesday to Saturday morning I recorded just over 200 mls in Whangarei.

[sunlineboy 160]

I don't have the exact fact of how much rain we got, but it was heavy for about 3 hours, and the rest was mostly strong winds. Some places flooded, some didn't even look damp, but I think the heavy downpours weren't widespread.

[scooby3051 13,197]

Track got 34 mms the night before.

[Baz (NZ) 1,762]

On 2/1/2025 at 4:53 PM, Maximus said:

Ok ATR and NZTR, you got me.... I gots to know!

Why did we run an 8-race card today on a Soft 5 ?

No rain for the past 7 days.

Is it now preferred to prepare the new surface with all this 'give' in the ground?

 

F.Y.I @Maximus



 

Track Ratings 2022 V3.pdf

[Pete Lane 1,384]

37 minutes ago, Baz (NZ) said:

F.Y.I @Maximus



 

Track Ratings 2022 V3.pdf 95.39 

.

[racingoutsider 392]

3 minutes ago, Pete Lane said:

.

What? Aren't those the 22 announcement of the new track readings?

[nomates 5,591]

2 hours ago, scooby3051 said:

Ellerslie is fast proving you wrong...it has performed well ALL season and still you just cant move on...tell me another tack in NZ that could have got that amount of rain and not been a bottomless bog...and you prattle on about it being a synthetic track...its not its a Strathayr GRASS track..nothing synthetic about it, they used modern technology...get with the program Douggie boy...fossils get left behind in the past ....

I can only use what information I was given after my boy ran on Saturday , he's a big horse with a large stride and struggled on it from the start on what was described afterwards as a shifty track . 

 

[racingoutsider 392]

11 minutes ago, nomates said:

I can only use what information I was given after my boy ran on Saturday , he's a big horse with a large stride and struggled on it from the start on what was described afterwards as a shifty track . 

 

That's consistent with wider reports I heard from here. Thanks for sharing.