Maximus

Ellerslie track conditions ...

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Ok ATR and NZTR, you got me.... I gots to know!

Why did we run an 8-race card today on a Soft 5 ?

No rain for the past 7 days.

Is it now preferred to prepare the new surface with all this 'give' in the ground?

 

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14 minutes ago, Maximus said:

Ok ATR and NZTR, you got me.... I gots to know!

Why did we run an 8-race card today on a Soft 5 ?

No rain for the past 7 days.

Is it now preferred to prepare the new surface with all this 'give' in the ground?

 

No penetrometer readings?

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16 hours ago, Pete Lane said:

They ran 1.10.77 in the second race and the jockey said the track was perfect.

I think you're guilty of nitpicking in this instance.

I disagree in this instance. It's a fair question - no rain, irrigation required/applied daily and the track conditions would not have suited horses who prefer firm ground. How come the track did not firm up during the afternoon on a fab summer's day?

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1 minute ago, TurnipOrange said:

Dont know what all you guys are going on about, Track was absolutley perfect for this time of the year. Well done Ellerslie!

Are you saying a Soft5 is perfect for summer racing at the new Ellerslie?

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1 hour ago, Maximus said:

Are you saying a Soft5 is perfect for summer racing at the new Ellerslie?

In a word YES

When 65 rating gallopers can run 1.10.8 for 1200m , In my mind thats perfect. I never heard one complaint about the track yesterday, Better to have some give so as your horses does not jar up!

I think a Soft 5 at ellerslie is different to a soft 5 on most tracks, It dosent cut out as much for obvious reasons :)

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1 hour ago, TurnipOrange said:

In a word YES

When 65 rating gallopers can run 1.10.8 for 1200m , In my mind thats perfect. I never heard one complaint about the track yesterday, Better to have some give so as your horses does not jar up!

I think a Soft 5 at ellerslie is different to a soft 5 on most tracks, It dosent cut out as much for obvious reasons :)

Well said Bob. Agree 100%.

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21 hours ago, Maximus said:

Ok ATR and NZTR, you got me.... I gots to know!

Why did we run an 8-race card today on a Soft 5 ?

No rain for the past 7 days.

Is it now preferred to prepare the new surface with all this 'give' in the ground?

 

Ellerslie is always a Soft 5 now. A month of drought? Soft 5. 8 inches of rain in five minutes? Soft 5. It wasn't initially because the idiots chose to use their own mix of grasses and ended up with a mat of knitted roots growing sideways instead of downwards, but they're on top of that now.

That's the idea behind Strathayr. It doesn't bake hard and it doesn't turn to mud. It's a safe, consistent track you can run on once a week for nine months a year. It'll never suit Grey Way, but NZTR don't want tracks that'd suit Grey Way anymore.

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On 2/2/2025 at 2:29 PM, chiknsmack said:

Ellerslie is always a Soft 5 now. A month of drought? Soft 5. 8 inches of rain in five minutes? Soft 5. It wasn't initially because the idiots chose to use their own mix of grasses and ended up with a mat of knitted roots growing sideways instead of downwards, but they're on top of that now.

That's the idea behind Strathayr. It doesn't bake hard and it doesn't turn to mud. It's a safe, consistent track you can run on once a week for nine months a year. It'll never suit Grey Way, but NZTR don't want tracks that'd suit Grey Way anymore.

Next question: is a Soft 5 at the 'new' Ellerslie the same as a Soft 5 at Trentham or Ricketytown? The obvious answer being "yes" a Soft 5 is a Soft 5 anywhere.
So, Maxi's original concern remains: if you've got a horse that doesn't like it 'Soft5 or worser, you don't want to race at HQ which is where most of the shekels are going!! ..as well as most of the Black Type races.

Fair conclusion?

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5 minutes ago, Maximus said:

Next question: is a Soft 5 at the 'new' Ellerslie the same as a Soft 5 at Trentham or Ricketytown? The obvious answer being "yes" a Soft 5 is a Soft 5 anywhere.
So, Maxi's original concern remains: if you've got a horse that doesn't like it 'Soft5 or worser, you don't want to race at HQ which is where most of the shekels are going!! ..as well as most of the Black Type races.

Fair conclusion?

Excellent question.

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1 hour ago, Maximus said:

Next question: is a Soft 5 at the 'new' Ellerslie the same as a Soft 5 at Trentham or Ricketytown? The obvious answer being "yes" a Soft 5 is a Soft 5 anywhere.
So, Maxi's original concern remains: if you've got a horse that doesn't like it 'Soft5 or worser, you don't want to race at HQ which is where most of the shekels are going!! ..as well as most of the Black Type races.

Fair conclusion?

Long answer, no two tracks are the same so the going can only be indicative.

I don’t know Strathayr - we don’t have it in Europe. I presume because it’s not turf it walks differently and rides differently. As for times, assuming the course distances are accurate, you only have the evidence of the clock to go on. If low grade horses are running fast times it usually means the ground is riding well.

I would be wary of taking Ellerslie form too literally but if a horse runs well there it’s worth following there.

I’d also note good horses go on most surfaces as long as not extremes of going.

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3 hours ago, Nerula said:

For goodness sake. its a manufactured composite track. The only resemblance to other grass tracks is the grass surface.

It is unique and ATR have stated that it will ever be rated at 5.

 

That's very confusing when a year ago they said it would always be a Good 4.

"Therefore, for the foreseeable future, the Ellerslie track will be declared a Good 4 irrespective of rainfall.  This track rating will be a more accurate guide for stakeholders including the wagering public."

So when did they change their mind and say it would always be a Soft 5?

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Also, the NZTR track preparation policy hasn't changed, so aiming for a S5 would not be in compliance with that.

Race Day Track Preparation Process – MANDATORY Requirements
Clubs should aim to produce a track with a GOOD rating (i.e. a track with good grass coverage and
cushion) for the majority of the race meeting. They should however, [do their best to] avoid a track
with a GOOD 2 rating at any time during the race meeting).

Or does ATR have some kind of exemption to that which other clubs do not? Surely this puts their meeting funding at risk.

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8 hours ago, Nerula said:

For goodness sake. its a manufactured composite track. The only resemblance to other grass tracks is the grass surface.

It is unique and ATR have stated that it will ever be rated at 5.

 

So what makes it so unique compared to all the other Strathayr tracks in the world?

Even if it is "unique" it has variability is surface hardness or softness depending on which way you look at it.

Sometimes it rates as a G4 and then sometimes it rates as a S5.

Elllerslie have said that the track is so unique you can't measure it.  Now Ellerslie have decided that it will always be a Soft 5.  It's a nonsense when there is equipment to measure many factors e.g. a Going Stick which is used on a number of tracks in Australia.

Another point is why do the race times degrade when it rains if the track is always a Soft 5?  It must be some other factor like the track being shifty and cutting out perhaps?

Something doesn't smell right in the State of Ellerslie.

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6 hours ago, racingoutsider said:

That's very confusing when a year ago they said it would always be a Good 4.

"Therefore, for the foreseeable future, the Ellerslie track will be declared a Good 4 irrespective of rainfall.  This track rating will be a more accurate guide for stakeholders including the wagering public."

So when did they change their mind and say it would always be a Soft 5?

When they started mechanically softening it because it was harder than a G4 and when it rained horses slipped.

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Maxi, read Turnips opinion above, He was a jockey of international class. Take that as gospel. if you stick around you will realise the quality of input of various posters and learn. Pay no attention to "wind up merchants" like CM

Stodgy - Strathayr  is a composite of bottom to top - Terra firma with drainage - stone aggregate bed - deep sand and peat mixture with fibres mixed in. The grass seed is planted into the latter. So the surface is free draining and the core is slightly spongy. So of you poke a penetrometer into that it wont meet the same resistance as natural ground. Simple eh?

 

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2 hours ago, Nerula said:

Maxi, read Turnips opinion above, He was a jockey of international class. Take that as gospel. if you stick around you will realise the quality of input of various posters and learn. Pay no attention to "wind up merchants" like CM

Stodgy - Strathayr  is a composite of bottom to top - Terra firma with drainage - stone aggregate bed - deep sand and peat mixture with fibres mixed in. The grass seed is planted into the latter. So the surface is free draining and the core is slightly spongy. So of you poke a penetrometer into that it wont meet the same resistance as natural ground. Simple eh?

 

Thanks for the explanation, my friend. I know it’s used as a surface in a number of jurisdictions but not in Europe to my knowledge - why, I don’t know, perhaps the colder winter climate.

I presume it takes large quantities of rain falling in a short time well.

As you say, it’s not natural ground - whether you should call it a synthetic surface is another question. I suppose from a form analysis standpoint the question is are any horses actively unsuited by Strathayr such that their form on that surface is well off the level on “normal” turf. Do, for example, horses which run well on Polytrack produce the same level of form on Strathayr?

From what I’ve seen so far, it seems a perfectly good surface but track preparation is the key.
 

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