Accountability & Change

[Alf Riston 2,142]

As NZ Racing is becoming more and more of a laughing stock, how can things ever be expected to improve when the heads of the responsible organizations just continue to roll out PR spin or are totally M.I A.?

There seems to be an 'immunity to accountabilty' in these roles which will just allow the crisis to deepen until the next unaccountable lot take over.

For an industry that was once widely respected from fellow industries worldwide we have now just sadly disappeared into the shadows and become insignificant on a global basis.  

Perhaps the industry participants need to take action that might force change?

Owners, trainers, jockeys and all other associated employees here in New Zealand are poorly done by and falling behind as each and every year goes by.

My thoughts are that there should be a 'coming together' of all these parties and strike action served to NZTR - for the entire week starting xxx, there will be no horses (harness included?) presented for racing.

This situation has been survivable before (lockdowns), and at least this will be a planned absence from the track, rather than what is being served up to them now and the mostly non-recoverable costs that abandonements cause.

There are many and various industry participants in Racecafe so I would like to hear others thoughts around accountability and change.

[We're Doomed 5,908]

It needs someone in a position of some authority to stand up and hold them accountable. If Chris Waller was to say he wasn't pleased in Australia I'm sure everyone would take notice. I really have no idea who an equivalent person would be in NZ. I suppose Dave Ellis, but he is probably reasonably happy with the way things are going.

[nomates 5,463]

56 minutes ago, Alf Riston said:

As NZ Racing is becoming more and more of a laughing stock, how can things ever be expected to improve when the heads of the responsible organizations just continue to roll out PR spin or are totally M.I A.?

There seems to be an 'immunity to accountabilty' in these roles which will just allow the crisis to deepen until the next unaccountable lot take over.

For an industry that was once widely respected from fellow industries worldwide we have now just sadly disappeared into the shadows and become insignificant on a global basis.  

Perhaps the industry participants need to take action that might force change?

Owners, trainers, jockeys and all other associated employees here in New Zealand are poorly done by and falling behind as each and every year goes by.

My thoughts are that there should be a 'coming together' of all these parties and strike action served to NZTR - for the entire week starting xxx, there will be no horses (harness included?) presented for racing.

This situation has been survivable before (lockdowns), and at least this will be a planned absence from the track, rather than what is being served up to them now and the mostly non-recoverable costs that abandonements cause.

There are many and various industry participants in Racecafe so I would like to hear others thoughts around accountability and change.

I would add some thoughts , but been there done that and I am now firmly of the belief that there is an agenda and no one is going to make them deviate from it .

What it is I have no idea but if the current situation is part of the pathway then I bow to the great Chris Rea's "Road to hell" theory . 

[Alf Riston 2,142]

3 minutes ago, nomates said:

then I bow to the great Chris Rea's "Road to hell" theory . 

Well, I'm standing by a river but the water doesn't flow
It boils with every poison you can think of
Then I'm underneath the streetlights, but the light of joy I know
Scared beyond belief way down in the shadows

[nomates 5,463]

2 minutes ago, Alf Riston said:

Well, I'm standing by a river but the water doesn't flow
It boils with every poison you can think of
Then I'm underneath the streetlights, but the light of joy I know
Scared beyond belief way down in the shadows

One of the great songs , and he was on the button with his words from decades ago .

[We're Doomed 5,908]

34 minutes ago, nomates said:

I would add some thoughts , but been there done that and I am now firmly of the belief that there is an agenda and no one is going to make them deviate from it .

What it is I have no idea but if the current situation is part of the pathway then I bow to the great Chris Rea's "Road to hell" theory . 

As I have said several times, I have never been able to figure out whether they are incompetent or corrupt. I just can't decide whether they are capable of carrying out a cunning plan.

[nomates 5,463]

10 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

As I have said several times, I have never been able to figure out whether they are incompetent or corrupt. I just can't decide whether they are capable of carrying out a cunning plan.

Straight up , they're not smart enough to be corrupt . It's not a cunning plan either , it's as blunt as fuck and they are bashing participants with it .

[mckenzie 662]

It's not just our racing industry though, look at the debacle over having functioning ferries across the cook strait. We simply don't have the leadership and attitude in this country to plan for the future and get out of the number 8 wire/ "she'll be right" mentality of quick fixes and kicking the can down the road for someone else to sort out later.

[bigrig 44]

We're Doomed makes a good reply. If we were Australia and Chris waller said something, action would happen. However, Australian Racing isn't as amateur as New Zealand Racing; for start and our national trainers president is none other than Shaun clotworthy, a stable which  until recently this season had a strike rate of 1 in 108; and seems to have done nothing practical in this role apart from self promotion as seen in todays article about abandonments and goes to nights out on the grog placed on by Entain and other such entities... the whole shebang is up absolute shit creek. Leadership is where to start the change, because there is nothing at the moment and anything is better than nothing. 

But getting back to Alf's original post; a great post and message. I hope the powers that be see it and take note. Good on you!

[diesel 218]

I can't recall in NZ a Saturday race day without any racing, no gallops, or even harness. Everything appears to be very amateur on many aspects. Come on,   let's not let our thoroughbred industry go into further decline. 

[Alf Riston 2,142]

16 hours ago, bigrig said:

We're Doomed makes a good reply. If we were Australia and Chris waller said something, action would happen. However, Australian Racing isn't as amateur as New Zealand Racing; for start and our national trainers president is none other than Shaun clotworthy, a stable which  until recently this season had a strike rate of 1 in 108; and seems to have done nothing practical in this role apart from self promotion as seen in todays article about abandonments and goes to nights out on the grog placed on by Entain and other such entities... the whole shebang is up absolute shit creek. Leadership is where to start the change, because there is nothing at the moment and anything is better than nothing. 

But getting back to Alf's original post; a great post and message. I hope the powers that be see it and take note. Good on you!

Thanks bigrig ... 'the whole shebang is up absolute shit creek' sums it up perfectly. 

The spate of recent abandonements is only a small part of The House of Shit Creek that we now reside in , but it inspired me to propose what could be done to turn things around?  

The industry has been 'bleeding out' a slow and painful death for numerous years now, and there is NO accountability for what is happening. 

Inaction, and poor actions from the top are accepted by all of the various industry associations and groups, which by their inaction, contribute to the present state of affairs.

Owners, trainers & jockeys should as a united front, be sending the message THIS IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. My idea of a week long strike was just a thought around how something radical might bring things to a head. It certainly would raise awareness and be a lot harder to ignore or smooth over with pre-prepared press statements. 

Is there a strong leader in these organisations that can drive change and accountability? Or are they just old boys clubs that will just grumble and groan until the last dying breaths of the industry are taken ......?

 

 

 

[nomates 5,463]

1 hour ago, Alf Riston said:

Thanks bigrig ... 'the whole shebang is up absolute shit creek' sums it up perfectly. 

The spate of recent abandonements is only a small part of The House of Shit Creek that we now reside in , but it inspired me to propose what could be done to turn things around?  

The industry has been 'bleeding out' a slow and painful death for numerous years now, and there is NO accountability for what is happening. 

Inaction, and poor actions from the top are accepted by all of the various industry associations and groups, which by their inaction, contribute to the present state of affairs.

Owners, trainers & jockeys should as a united front, be sending the message THIS IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. My idea of a week long strike was just a thought around how something radical might bring things to a head. It certainly would raise awareness and be a lot harder to ignore or smooth over with pre-prepared press statements. 

Is there a strong leader in these organisations that can drive change and accountability? Or are they just old boys clubs that will just grumble and groan until the last dying breaths of the industry are taken ......?

 

 

 

The short answer is NO ! , shortly after we came out of the first covid lock down and racing stopped for a few weeks Tony Pike who was Trainers president he called for trainers to not nominate for races , can't remember his exact reasoning but it was a genuine call to arms for the purpose of forcing change , nothing happened , SFA , some trainers I'm sure didn't put horses in but it didn't come to enough to stop racing .

Short term pain for long term gain , but too many vested in taking what they can here and now and locked into the "Don't rock the boat" syndrome ,

[We're Doomed 5,908]

1 hour ago, nomates said:

The short answer is NO ! , shortly after we came out of the first covid lock down and racing stopped for a few weeks Tony Pike who was Trainers president he called for trainers to not nominate for races , can't remember his exact reasoning but it was a genuine call to arms for the purpose of forcing change , nothing happened , SFA , some trainers I'm sure didn't put horses in but it didn't come to enough to stop racing .

Short term pain for long term gain , but too many vested in taking what they can here and now and locked into the "Don't rock the boat" syndrome ,

There are probably some quite happy with the situation. Those who's main focus is the sweepstakes, slot race, group races and $1m bonus for placing in a few designated races aren't too concerned about a few winter abandonments. And we now have the precedent set that they will plow on regardless of track conditions on sweepstakes day, and presumably slot day.

NZTR don't really think winter racing counts anyhow. They think all SI trainers should relocate to Riccarton and do must of their racing on the AWT.

[Alf Riston 2,142]

4 hours ago, nomates said:

The short answer is NO ! , shortly after we came out of the first covid lock down and racing stopped for a few weeks Tony Pike who was Trainers president he called for trainers to not nominate for races , can't remember his exact reasoning but it was a genuine call to arms for the purpose of forcing change , nothing happened , SFA , some trainers I'm sure didn't put horses in but it didn't come to enough to stop racing .

Short term pain for long term gain , but too many vested in taking what they can here and now and locked into the "Don't rock the boat" syndrome ,

Maybe the Owners Association (s) need to lead the way - ultimately they are the bill payers who continue to suffer from the decline in stakes (in real terms), and get screwed over the most by abandonments. 

The owners could tell their trainers to leave the horses at home for a specified week and also serve notice that they won't be opening their wallets at next years sales. 

Jockeys could also play their part by planning a weeks leave to somewhere sunny at the same time the owners plan to boycott racing.

I'm not wanting to come across as a militant, but if the status quo remains, a lot of time and money could be saved by pulling the curtains down now (JMO). 

 

 

[Leggy 4,194]

49 minutes ago, Alf Riston said:

Maybe the Owners Association (s) need to lead the way - ultimately they are the bill payers who continue to suffer from the decline in stakes (in real terms), and get screwed over the most by abandonments. 

The owners could tell their trainers to leave the horses at home for a specified week and also serve notice that they won't be opening their wallets at next years sales. 

Jockeys could also play their part by planning a weeks leave to somewhere sunny at the same time the owners plan to boycott racing.

I'm not wanting to come across as a militant, but if the status quo remains, a lot of time and money could be saved by pulling the curtains down now (JMO).

I doubt the Owners' Federation would have much sway. I suspect their membership is maybe 10% of current owners. I'm sure Nerula will correct me if I'm far out on that.

I think what you say is a good idea to bring attention to something, but industrial action is generally only successful if it is "for" something specific rather than just broadly against the status quo.

You'd have to decide what that is or might be.

[Alf Riston 2,142]

On 7/20/2024 at 7:33 PM, bigrig said:

However, Australian Racing isn't as amateur as New Zealand Racing;

As a collective, Australians don't take shit lying down as we do so this is probably one of the major reasons they do things better.

Imagine, 'let's move the Melbourne Cup to a Saturday' for some hair brained reason .......I don't think so.

[Pam Robson 1,894]

17 hours ago, Alf Riston said:

Thanks bigrig ... 'the whole shebang is up absolute shit creek' sums it up perfectly. 

The spate of recent abandonements is only a small part of The House of Shit Creek that we now reside in , but it inspired me to propose what could be done to turn things around?  

The industry has been 'bleeding out' a slow and painful death for numerous years now, and there is NO accountability for what is happening. 

Inaction, and poor actions from the top are accepted by all of the various industry associations and groups, which by their inaction, contribute to the present state of affairs.

Owners, trainers & jockeys should as a united front, be sending the message THIS IS NOT GOOD ENOUGH. My idea of a week long strike was just a thought around how something radical might bring things to a head. It certainly would raise awareness and be a lot harder to ignore or smooth over with pre-prepared press statements. 

Is there a strong leader in these organisations that can drive change and accountability? Or are they just old boys clubs that will just grumble and groan until the last dying breaths of the industry are taken ......?

 

 

 

Good posts, Alf - but - getting trainers to agree on ANYTHING is like herding cats, as the saying goes.    And without getting into personalities or specifics, any 'strike' or protest has to have a clearly defined aim.  Such as, a wage increase, or taxation change, or a policy issue.  For example, standing up for someone who has been unfairly treated.    Those matters can be understood, and if there is sufficient will, attended to.   The recent fundraiser for Amanda Higgins was a heartening example of just how cohesive racing people can be.  But the issue has to be clear and defined.

Waving our arms around about 'racing being up shit creek ' and it is, you're spot on there, is too vague and can't get the buy in needed.  Where to start?

Track maintenance, jockey standards, programming, handicapping, the 'track closure' notion , along with its cousin, the centralization concept...all are flawed but to deal with effectively is too nebulous a process.   

The Members' Council, followed by the Board, and finally their paid minions, all need a 'refresh'.    A strike isn't going to start that process.    And among these no doubt well-intentioned folk there will be some be able individuals.  But anyone who has served on committees will know that one or two dissenting voices don't carry much clout.  It is the opinion of the collective that matters.

[Pak Star 1,185]

To prove Pams point, just take a look at some of the comments on the most recent Loveracing facebook posts from some trainers who appear to be defending the abandonments and the handling of them.  

[Palliser 1,243]

Great post Alf, Everything is in a steady decline. It's like they don't give a crap about anything except a few. What I mean is it appears they are looking after a few not the many. A lot of what we considered the heart of NZ racing is slowly but surely being buried. Soon if not already it will only be viable to the few, and as a consequence only attract the few. Greyhound racing is already at that stage. Apart from owners, trainers etc feeling disenchanted, the punter is being screwed over with that totally hopeless non human website. 

To me the pattern got progressively worse when Entain arrived. People got sucked in with all the money being waved around. From day one the goofy smiling dude never fooled me. Straight away I sensed disingenuous B.S.

 

[nomates 5,463]

57 minutes ago, Pak Star said:

To prove Pams point, just take a look at some of the comments on the most recent Loveracing facebook posts from some trainers who appear to be defending the abandonments and the handling of them.  

Went and had a look , didn't see any recognizable names there , but interestingly a number of posts removed , why I don't know but I would assume that some comments weren't painting NZTR in a good light .

[Leggy 4,194]

3 hours ago, nomates said:

Went and had a look , didn't see any recognizable names there , but interestingly a number of posts removed , why I don't know but I would assume that some comments weren't painting NZTR in a good light .

Not much point having a social media page inviting comment, then stamp out dissenting views by censorship.

[Alf Riston 2,142]

13 hours ago, Pam Robson said:

Good posts, Alf - but - getting trainers to agree on ANYTHING is like herding cats, as the saying goes.    And without getting into personalities or specifics, any 'strike' or protest has to have a clearly defined aim.  Such as, a wage increase, or taxation change, or a policy issue.  For example, standing up for someone who has been unfairly treated.    Those matters can be understood, and if there is sufficient will, attended to.   The recent fundraiser for Amanda Higgins was a heartening example of just how cohesive racing people can be.  But the issue has to be clear and defined.

Waving our arms around about 'racing being up shit creek ' and it is, you're spot on there, is too vague and can't get the buy in needed.  Where to start?

Track maintenance, jockey standards, programming, handicapping, the 'track closure' notion , along with its cousin, the centralization concept...all are flawed but to deal with effectively is too nebulous a process.   

The Members' Council, followed by the Board, and finally their paid minions, all need a 'refresh'.    A strike isn't going to start that process.    And among these no doubt well-intentioned folk there will be some be able individuals.  But anyone who has served on committees will know that one or two dissenting voices don't carry much clout.  It is the opinion of the collective that matters.

Thanks Pam - and I agree that there would need to be 'specifics', and where to start would be a challenge.

For mine, it would be to challenge the existing structure of how the industry is managed and 'kick the ladder out', starting from scratch and designing a model that can be much more transparent and accountable.

I feel the overarching issue with where we have arrived at today is that there are so many splinter groups (cats that need herding in your terms), that are either looking after their own interests only, or not bothering to do much at all.  

I proposed that the JRA model  https://japanracing.jp/en/jpn-racing/jra/pdf/chart.pdf could be implemented in NZ as a National body responsible for everything racing (including betting, no third party involved) They also have the NRA in Japan for 'local' racing but for NZ purposes one such structure would be sufficient. Again. JMO.

[Alf Riston 2,142]

On 7/20/2024 at 1:18 PM, nomates said:

One of the great songs , and he was on the button with his words from decades ago .

And for those Chris Rea fans, this version is awesome!!

 

[Insider 5,170]

14 hours ago, Pam Robson said:

Good posts, Alf - but - getting trainers to agree on ANYTHING is like herding cats, as the saying goes.    And without getting into personalities or specifics, any 'strike' or protest has to have a clearly defined aim.  Such as, a wage increase, or taxation change, or a policy issue.  For example, standing up for someone who has been unfairly treated.    Those matters can be understood, and if there is sufficient will, attended to.   The recent fundraiser for Amanda Higgins was a heartening example of just how cohesive racing people can be.  But the issue has to be clear and defined.

Waving our arms around about 'racing being up shit creek ' and it is, you're spot on there, is too vague and can't get the buy in needed.  Where to start?

Track maintenance, jockey standards, programming, handicapping, the 'track closure' notion , along with its cousin, the centralization concept...all are flawed but to deal with effectively is too nebulous a process.   

The Members' Council, followed by the Board, and finally their paid minions, all need a 'refresh'.    A strike isn't going to start that process.    And among these no doubt well-intentioned folk there will be some be able individuals.  But anyone who has served on committees will know that one or two dissenting voices don't carry much clout.  It is the opinion of the collective that matters.

The Post of the Year.

Thank you and congratulations Pam

[Alf Riston 2,142]

2 hours ago, Insider said:

The Members' Council, followed by the Board, and finally their paid minions, all need a 'refresh'.

 

Couldn't agree more about the 'total refresh',  so how to bring about change is the big question. 

Strike action was put out there to promote discussion and draw out ideas about how change could be induced but it would never happen, I knew that. 

And as for ideas coming forward...

Like others on here I'm considering finding other ways to spend my time and money, rather than endure the frustrations and BS of the shit show it's become.