Taku Umanga

Brent Mangos' property

No insinuations or unsubstantiated allegations from me. Simply asked a few questions about the latest fad product and it's legitimate uses. I haven't alleged anything about any person to have to retract.
People have been using products in this game from day one to try and find "an edge". I merely question whether this is happening here or not.

Welcome to the discussion Lee.
I must say I'm a tad disappointed in your response. I expected you come out strongly in defense of ACS and tell us what a great breakthrough it is in animal welfare.
But no, not even a denial that it's just another pain killing anti-inflammatory treatment, albeit one that won't as yet trigger an irregularity.
Instead you play the age old "you must be an All Stars hater" card, although I must commend you on the introduction of the term "All Stars Derangement Syndrome" which at least brings something slightly less boring to the debate. Appreciate if you could point out where I singled out the All Stars for any special mention, or even alluded to them.
It's not surprising that you should try and re-focus attention on to my identity or the so called All Stars haters. After all, anything is better than opening the controversial ACS treatment up to public scrutiny isn't it?
Kudos on the Box Seat "expose". You'd have to be pleased with that as a PR exercise. The average punter eg Iraklis, watched it and still had no idea afterwards that ACS is even a pain killing anti-inflammatory treatment.
By the way, would be interested to hear ...
1. What legitimate ie. non-performance enhancing, reason could a trainer have for giving a horse this treatment in the days leading up to a race?
2. If there is no reason, or it "doesn't happen", then why should ACS not have a significant withholding period as do other pain killing anti-inflammatory treatments.

Yes, that's right Tim.
I know that this may not be a popular comment, and I'll live with it.. but sometimes when people post, we see what we want to see and not their whole post in context.   I see what Jack is saying here.
Why would someone be using a healing agent so close to a race.  If the horse is healing then why would it be racing, in fact is shouldn't be racing.
However, if this healing agent did in fact enhance performance there would be a reason to use it close to racing.   The point is proving that it was administered because the horse did have something wrong with it in the first place, or whether it was used as an additive.
Now I'm not saying someone did it, or were thinking of doing it, but that is what I derive from the posts above.
It's not a volatile query, it's just a query and if it can be explained then great.  If it can't be then there is an issue.  That is what discussion is about on a forum. 

Assume that is what was happening here .....
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/racing/94229662/harness-racing-trainer-mark-purdon-cops-hefty-fine

Nothing being missed here Iraklis I can assure you! Been in the game too long to be taken in by the thin veneer of bullshit and self interest that the "average punter" is sold on.
Nobody is denying that this product has significant healing properties. but as with every other equine treatment from arsenic through to zinc, it can be used for legitimate health reasons, or for reasons less altruistic.
Ask yourself a couple of simple question - "What healing is a fit and healthy racehorse in need of immediately before to a major race?" and if it does need healing "Why is it racing?"
The product has legitimate out-of-competition uses ie. to speed up recovery from injury.
The product has no legitimate racing use other than to reduce pain and inflammation and make horses run through the pain barrier ie. artificially increase stamina.
The long term price the industry will pay for this treatment is increased injury rates, and give the animal welfare groups further ammunition.

Some quick points Tim.
1. At no point was this discussion limited to the All Stars use of this treatment. It's about the treatment itself and whether it's use should be permitted. We all know of several other stables using it.
2. Injecting joints whilst a very common treatment, doesn't fix a problem, it hides it. That's why it becomes less effective the longer it's used. The problem joints are worsening without the horse feeling them worsening ... as long as the injections continue.
3. The Warriors can authorise any medication they like within the rules. People have a choice. They're fully aware of the consequences they may face later in life.

I think I've had enough to say on the matter. There's enough information in this thread already to draw your own conclusions on whether this treatment should be allowed in a horses system on raceday. For some it's obvious, for others nothing is obvious.
The whole topic boils down to the true definition of "performance enhancing" - does it only mean something that makes a horse artificially stronger and faster, or does it also include things that artificially increase their pain threshold to prevent injuries slowing them down"?
The obvious danger inherent in the second part of definition is that increased pain thresholds also worsen injuries and increase catastrophic breakdown rates. The animal rights activists are going to have a field day with this at some point. 
 

Not anti-inflammatory or pain blocking? You're kidding right?
The company website claims otherwise....
How can I administer ACS?
1)Intra-articular (IA) injection – For the treatment of degenerated sore and/or injured joints. ACS’s potent anti-inflammatory and repair properties allow for immediate relief to inflamed/injured joints through regenerative proteins in the serum.
2)Intravenously (IV) – For an overall anti-inflammatory and pain-blocking response throughout the body. For an elite performance horse this form of administration is extremely beneficial and with no anaphylactic response.
3)Nebulized through the EBS’s MPTS360 – For regeneration of the air space to the lungs and airways to the respiratory system and has a dual action as it also goes directly to the blood stream.
4)Intramuscularly – Used with dual action acupuncture or without acupuncture points and also in physiotheraphy.
 
I you want to know what this stuff really does read this instead of being taken in by the Box Seat rubbish which was pure PR spin!
http://www.equinebloodsolutions.nz/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Updated-ACS-NZ-Brochure-Veterinary-Use.pdf

Yep - race fixing has been going on for years.  
The difference nowadays is that it's a criminal offence.

addington should be great for change and also would like to see Auckland get it at least one year . The 1980m doesn’t really worry will still be outstanding mile rate  times. Auckland 1609 is that bad also. Cambridge and Ashburton have done a good job but it has died off abit the last few years. Still think calendar year stakes qualification and 2nd or 3rd week January  jewels day would attract a lot more horses and people to the day. 

Very poorly written too.
JCA decision not on line yet but have been reliably informed that he has now been disqualified rather than suspended - taking effect as of Saturday 11 May.

Whilst it is good that the discussion is to take place it will amount to nothing. The first thing that does need to happen is that Mick Guerin needs to disqualify himself from the segment as he is well known to be biased towards a certain stable. The second thing that needs to be done is to get a Vet who is not associated with the industry (or participants) to give facts either for or against. Integrity needs to be shown by all involved in this segment or it will amount to nothing but a charade. Too many big players are involved in ACS and they won't want to see it stopped.
IMHO I believe it should be stopped until the facts have been proven as to the welfare of the horse and the legality of it are proven. The sport at the top level is haemoraging which is affecting those at the grass roots who love the industry but don't have the money to compete on the same level. It is also affecting the perception of the sport by the bread and butter people - the punters. Welfare of the horse followed by integrity of the sport have be at the forefront of any discussion.

Im sort of in agreement with you Rusty, if it aint broke  dont fix it

Be interesting to see what the new website is like.
I think the current one is fantastic, as it has all the information one could possibly need, is very well set out and easy to navigate. 

G Smith has had thoroughbreds for a while I believe

I take your points Tim and Idolmight. Of course Cam has not reached the level of annoyance even at this start of his career as Steve Davis trying to bluff his way through harness Racing Now thats ANNOYING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

The maiden stake will include the HRNZ $1500 bonus payment for a horse's first win. 

http://www.jca.org.nz/non-race-day-hearings/non-raceday-inquiry-riu-v-g-dixon-reserved-written-decision-dated-22-march-2019-chair-prof-g-hall

thanks TU, just read it in full. Most of it reads as though spoken by the mad hatter at the tea party with Alice...!!  Over 50 years of betting to me it is simply unbelievable ! 

http://www.jca.org.nz/non-race-day-hearings/non-raceday-inquiry-riu-v-g-dixon-reserved-written-decision-dated-22-march-2019-chair-prof-g-hall

I struggle with handicapper discretion!
The points Shillelagh accrued or had deducted over a month is a classic example:
1st at Manawatu (12/02) - 6 points added (discretion applied) = 82
4th at Manawatu (14/02) - no change = 82
8th at Auckland (01/03) - drops 2 points (discretion applied) = 80
6th at Manawatu (12/03) - drops 3 points (discretion applied) = 77
6th at Manawatu (14/03) - drops 3 points (discretion applied) = 74
The last two 6th's are only one placing away from losing no points at all ..... so why deduct 3 when all of those finishing further back only lost 1 point - and this in fields of 8 and 10 runners respectively? 
Great for connections as gets their horse back down to a competitive rating level quicker, but the only justification I can see in increasing a horses rating by 6 points and then decreasing it by 8 points within a month is to keep it eligible for racing at Manawatu.
How is that a true rating system?

The best person for the job is - the best person for the job.     Surely!!

Yep - race fixing has been going on for years.  
The difference nowadays is that it's a criminal offence.

Agree with all - we know the importance of the female to the industry ...... who needs a bloody survey - sexism gone mad!