tasman man 11

I have been in racing for 50 years and i have never meet a better person than Tony,Nobody had a bad word to say bout him and he did as well as he did as a trainer,through sheer hard work.
Tony helped me a lot as an appretice and gave me a lot of winners.
I will tell you a story about Tony and Mr Aybee.I had ridden Mr Aybee in the Riverton Cup and he ran 2nd after to Miles Better, i thought he had every show.On the first day of the Easter carnival at Riccarton i picked up the ride on Candyboy,in the Geo Adams,he bolted in and on the last day i was down to ride Mr Aybee bit also could ride Candyboy again.I didn,t have the balls to tell Tony,so i got Tim Barton to tell him,which turned out ok.In the race i was getting a good run,with Mr Aybee inside me under lock and key,then the horse i was following droped down to the fence and then Candyboy took charge and the next second my saddle had slipped,anyway into the straight and i am gone,the dry witted Michael Mein got up inside and as he went passed,said"I bet you wish you hadn't got off him down,he went on to win the race and i never look like getting back on.
Tony do not listen to Danny Crozier,when he tried to convince you i pulled him up in the Riverton Cup.
RIP Tony,you were a champion

RIP Tony....a good bloke.
Been in racing a long time .
Thoughts go out to his family.

Just back from fact finding trip of South Island ,my second such trip this year ,touring one of the most amazing places on earth .....the province of Otago and in particular Central Otago.
Have you ever been there ?
And what exactly do you want from me to support my arguments ,which I view as my personal opinions from an enthusiastic participant.
Last time I looked I put my trousers on the same way as most others on here.
I'm always willing to comment on things I have have personally experienced over the years and support them with relevant facts.
If anyone doesn't like my posts ,then I'd politely ask they don't read em.
Tell me what you want my opinion on and I'll do my best if I think it worth wasting time on ......tell me what your area of expertise is ,what your pedigree is.
There are a lot of 'weird' people out there .....keyboard warriors , educated direlects !
Got things to do today.

Cheers John ,
Correct I'm not a member ...you don't comment why 14  x member applications were declined , but I have been a customer for many years and actually have an Avondale Cup on my shelf.
I posted cos a comment was made re Membership and I had read the case on-line.
I believe VM had been a member for a long time...membership is not large so I assume he had friends/support in the club and I believe he had been a trainer there as well. Credentials I assume saw him considered fit enough to be elected on or accepted on to the committee some years back.
I'm not too interested in why it turned to custard , but the fact is it did and to end up in the courts is an indictment to all concerned and is a poor reflection on the AJC. Court opinions often mean little in civil cases especially.
I think the club should decide on what direction it should take in the future.....IMO the subject has had its time........like a long running Soap opera.
Racing needs to improve its 'brand' and 'image' and having that facility in its current condition in NZ's main city , while governing administrators squabble constantly about it is not a good look.
Give it to the Sallies ,build some housing , maintain some playing fields .....just do something !

Sorry I can't be more positive on this initiative but IMO it would be highly risky at the best of times ,let alone now with Co-vid making things so uncertain.
I have been in several syndicates and various ownership groups,all with the type of goals/purpose you are trying to achieve.
Once I was part of a group of 5 owners/investors in LAQ company , the idea being we would have 10 - 15 x horses and these would be traded thru sale and ready to run and a few would be raced by us.[ LAQC = Loss Attributing Qualifying Company ]
The group would pay tax on profits while any share of losses could be offset against our Individual tax.
It worked OK  for a few years then petered out....we had a few winners , sold an Oaks winner and I personally thought it a reasonable way to be involved. 
We originally put some money in each then took out a Bank loan to give the start up Capital.
Admin fees were kept to a minimum , except for a Chartered Acct to ensure we were compliant with Tax and reporting requirements.
Your model with significantly more money ,more investors ,Board members etc suggests more compliance costs and many people sucking off it.
Racing is difficult enough , breeding IMO is brutal.
At every level you would be competing with some very successful industry players.
A group of 10 or 20 in an ownership group can be demanding.......5000.......WOW ! .Like herding cats....big struggle !
A lot of well -known experienced folk have set up syndicates/ownership groups but found it 'too hard'.
Good luck at attracting even 100 investors .
My experience was , the ongoing training bills of many horses battling to win a $10k race, soon eats up your Group 1 winners earnings......with a few 'superstar' exceptions.
My recent breeding experience has also been fairly average.....our last filly from our mare brought in $5 k [a $15k stud fee ] and the previous one was even less.The mare who has had 4 x to races [ all winners] we recently sold for $600 [six hundred] carrying a $12k live foal positive.
Aside from above negatives I've had my share of wins / trophies / photos /excitement etc so it not all bad .......plenty of positives but  Investing in horses can be an expensive hobby .

Classic Thoroughbreds Plc was a big syndication company  , it almost done for Sangster , Magnier and Vincent O'Brien back in the day  and they had a dead set champion in Royal Academy,  Phoenix Thoroughbreds run this kind of large scale members/ investors model , they have had a few good horses and a bit of adverse publicity .
Good luck with the venture though , it's a tough business at the best of times and the successful syndicates sell it on the day out as well as a chance of return not merely the financial ROI as that's pushing shit uphill here with stakes to fees equation at this time .

Many a syndicate has been born based on a rosy looking spreadsheet dream, but life's just not like that.
The reality is that for the racehorse owner, the "game" is a hobby that will cost you money. It is profitable for the support industries such as vets, farriers, Industry body admin staff, sales companies and the like and then a small number of jockeys, feed merchants, trainers, transport companies, saddlery merchants etc can eke out a living, with the odd one rising above the crowd.
The breeding for sale game has it's own dynamics, and not many understand all the moving parts. Don't count on strolling in and coming out ahead financially there.
If you have a considerable role in doing a major part of the hands on work yourself on your own property, you have a runners chance, but for most others (I would say all) it should be considered a hobby.
If you can come in with the attitude that it will cost me $x, and I am happy to spend that to have some fun, you will be successful and have some fun.
 

Sorry I can't be more positive on this initiative but IMO it would be highly risky at the best of times ,let alone now with Co-vid making things so uncertain.
I have been in several syndicates and various ownership groups,all with the type of goals/purpose you are trying to achieve.
Once I was part of a group of 5 owners/investors in LAQ company , the idea being we would have 10 - 15 x horses and these would be traded thru sale and ready to run and a few would be raced by us.[ LAQC = Loss Attributing Qualifying Company ]
The group would pay tax on profits while any share of losses could be offset against our Individual tax.
It worked OK  for a few years then petered out....we had a few winners , sold an Oaks winner and I personally thought it a reasonable way to be involved. 
We originally put some money in each then took out a Bank loan to give the start up Capital.
Admin fees were kept to a minimum , except for a Chartered Acct to ensure we were compliant with Tax and reporting requirements.
Your model with significantly more money ,more investors ,Board members etc suggests more compliance costs and many people sucking off it.
Racing is difficult enough , breeding IMO is brutal.
At every level you would be competing with some very successful industry players.
A group of 10 or 20 in an ownership group can be demanding.......5000.......WOW ! .Like herding cats....big struggle !
A lot of well -known experienced folk have set up syndicates/ownership groups but found it 'too hard'.
Good luck at attracting even 100 investors .
My experience was , the ongoing training bills of many horses battling to win a $10k race, soon eats up your Group 1 winners earnings......with a few 'superstar' exceptions.
My recent breeding experience has also been fairly average.....our last filly from our mare brought in $5 k [a $15k stud fee ] and the previous one was even less.The mare who has had 4 x to races [ all winners] we recently sold for $600 [six hundred] carrying a $12k live foal positive.
Aside from above negatives I've had my share of wins / trophies / photos /excitement etc so it not all bad .......plenty of positives but  Investing in horses can be an expensive hobby .

Google Vince Middledorf v Avondale Jockey Club which in part was due to AJC declining 14 x membership applications and the suspension of VM as a member and committee person.Its totally absurd the lengths this club has gone to .....talk about wasting time and money !
The whole thing seems totally unnecessary....certainly there are many vendettas around this Club IMO and though they cash flow in recent years the future seems bleak IMO and the NZ Racing Industry should not waste time and breathe on them.
Sell the place ,give the funds to whoever is due them and look to the future....NZ racing could certainly do with some $ but if its Plunket , community housing or whatever , just move on.

Sorry I can't be more positive on this initiative but IMO it would be highly risky at the best of times ,let alone now with Co-vid making things so uncertain.
I have been in several syndicates and various ownership groups,all with the type of goals/purpose you are trying to achieve.
Once I was part of a group of 5 owners/investors in LAQ company , the idea being we would have 10 - 15 x horses and these would be traded thru sale and ready to run and a few would be raced by us.[ LAQC = Loss Attributing Qualifying Company ]
The group would pay tax on profits while any share of losses could be offset against our Individual tax.
It worked OK  for a few years then petered out....we had a few winners , sold an Oaks winner and I personally thought it a reasonable way to be involved. 
We originally put some money in each then took out a Bank loan to give the start up Capital.
Admin fees were kept to a minimum , except for a Chartered Acct to ensure we were compliant with Tax and reporting requirements.
Your model with significantly more money ,more investors ,Board members etc suggests more compliance costs and many people sucking off it.
Racing is difficult enough , breeding IMO is brutal.
At every level you would be competing with some very successful industry players.
A group of 10 or 20 in an ownership group can be demanding.......5000.......WOW ! .Like herding cats....big struggle !
A lot of well -known experienced folk have set up syndicates/ownership groups but found it 'too hard'.
Good luck at attracting even 100 investors .
My experience was , the ongoing training bills of many horses battling to win a $10k race, soon eats up your Group 1 winners earnings......with a few 'superstar' exceptions.
My recent breeding experience has also been fairly average.....our last filly from our mare brought in $5 k [a $15k stud fee ] and the previous one was even less.The mare who has had 4 x to races [ all winners] we recently sold for $600 [six hundred] carrying a $12k live foal positive.
Aside from above negatives I've had my share of wins / trophies / photos /excitement etc so it not all bad .......plenty of positives but  Investing in horses can be an expensive hobby .

I told people at work that the ROI on horses was 20%, they all wanted to get involved.  They explained it was a great return.  Then I clicked I should have said ROI is minus 80%!!!

The time has come for a complete clean out at Avondale. The Members there are either asleep or don’t give a shit, otherwise they would have turfed the whole Committee out years ago. 

When the average ROI is around 20% it is not a winning investment. It would need to around 50% to have a viable company risk. And that is poor odds for a company. Russian roulette is way better.

So whats the idea, Take a margin. Skim? There a lot of pretty sharp people run syndicates in NZ. Unless you are very clued up run a mile.
The very low ROI would guarantee a loss unless you hooked a champ. Losses are not tax deductable for loss making companies that cant demonstrate a plan to profit.. Even a creative prospectus wouldnt cut it without running the jeopardy of fraud charges.
Old saying "many a pioneer lost his ass"

A sensible 'band aid' solution.Shows some maybe new found collaboration and common sense .
But don't see this as an indicator as to the future.
Avondale still a run down facility , few people want to go there , and the weather often worse than other micro-climates of the city.
Horse population getting further away all the time !

Apparently according to the CEO of Harness Racing they will be releasing the funding level for the 20/21 season next week. He stated that the stakes would be on par with this seasons level. I find it hard to understand how an announcement on funding levels for stakes can be made when we still haven't negotiated our share of the total distribution from RITA. Both the Thoroughbred and Greyhound codes are arguing strongly for a percentage increase in their funding levels and the both have good arguments for why they should get more. Obviously if they get a greater percentage then we get a lower percentage and the total funds available have not been increased

I'll go for Pace N Pride......bad draw but a nice moving colt at trials !
The Dunn horses may ensure a strong pace !

I sense a bit of aggro there Mikie , us Tasman men should be more collaborative but NZ racing just ain't like that !
Even tho an enthusiastic , unlike you an Industry bigwig , I think I am doing my bit.
I try to spread the love re NZ racing........pay my bills to a few trainers and syndicates , and regularly attend meetings.A small bettor ,since lockdown I have increased my bets by 5 x times as I aware betting on NZ TAB is the lifeblood of the Industry.
I think I do my bit...more than the average NZ racing follower .....though I stopped the bleeding just last week on my 'breeding' career.
My breeding and partner and I sold our mare for $600.......she was carrying a $15k service fee and had four winners from 4 foals at races. One other died so she bred no complete duds.
And what are you doing ,other than posting aggressively on social media ?
You and those close to you have been big players in Racing during the steep decline of the industry over the past 30 years.....I sit and watch the train wreck you have been an influence on.Like many you seem to long for the good old days , resistance to change........why encourage the like of Stratford and Avondale to go to court to thwart the Industry [again !! as they have done previous to resist  change ]
Methinks some racing people have been so close to the Industry they can't see the train wreck !
Its kinda sad !
With your experience you should start with a clean sheet on how the Industry should progress to give it some hope of survival.....accept change is necessary.
Sadly your club is probably doomed as one that holds TAB meetings in your home town !
100 years.....a good innings !And you had the Ranfurly Shield once !

Not sure what races you guys are committing on , today I saw 9 different drivers and trainers winning   today or maybe I'm blind

Yeh all this cost cutting is bollocks. Why don’t they do away with the starter and get the jockey in the outside barrier start them. 

Quite  a balanced article by excellent journalist Martin Van Beyden out of Christchurch today......a main story on Stuff ,and I assume the Press .
Excellent qoutes from racing people STomilinson ,Jill Smolenski and MHouse.
They speak of the damage these actions and the resulting bad publicity do to their careers/livelihood  etc.
Yet we wonder on here why attendance and betting is in sharp decline.
The Industry eats itself up from the inside......yet we look to divert blame.    

Quite  a balanced article by excellent journalist Martin Van Beyden out of Christchurch today......a main story on Stuff ,and I assume the Press .
Excellent qoutes from racing people STomilinson ,Jill Smolenski and MHouse.
They speak of the damage these actions and the resulting bad publicity do to their careers/livelihood  etc.
Yet we wonder on here why attendance and betting is in sharp decline.
The Industry eats itself up from the inside......yet we look to divert blame.    

Quite  a balanced article by excellent journalist Martin Van Beyden out of Christchurch today......a main story on Stuff ,and I assume the Press .
Excellent qoutes from racing people STomilinson ,Jill Smolenski and MHouse.
They speak of the damage these actions and the resulting bad publicity do to their careers/livelihood  etc.
Yet we wonder on here why attendance and betting is in sharp decline.
The Industry eats itself up from the inside......yet we look to divert blame.    

Quite  a balanced article by excellent journalist Martin Van Beyden out of Christchurch today......a main story on Stuff ,and I assume the Press .
Excellent qoutes from racing people STomilinson ,Jill Smolenski and MHouse.
They speak of the damage these actions and the resulting bad publicity do to their careers/livelihood  etc.
Yet we wonder on here why attendance and betting is in sharp decline.
The Industry eats itself up from the inside......yet we look to divert blame.    

Sticks and stones may break my bones but names shall never hurt me.