tasman man 11

I was OK with it..........gives some incentive for the better local horses to stick around and race in NZ ,rather than dumbing down the whole industry. Surely Owners and breeders are somewhat important to the future of the Industry in NZ. I think its totally reasonable that NZTR fund Group Ones and other 'iconic' races such as the Karaka races receive $200 - $250 k per race , they seem to attract International as well as Kiwi Interest. I note the NZ Derby @ $360k and 2000 Guineas @ $325k have been the highest funded races from NZTR up to the current season. The ARC puts $1 mill toward stakes , and it could be argued that they are in a position to contribute more. Being rated an 'International' venue should receive some rewards and they do via stakes. The Melbourne Cup and other high stake races have recently had some sweepstake twist to them .

And what was her training regime ?

Again Aaron , I just talk from my own experience from a circle of people. I actually thought there may be a big drop off. Did you advertise ?....or just word of mouth and personal approach ?

NZ owners are very resilient , small returns don't appear to phase us. Currently there are still plenty of horses being nominated to race on mainly wet tracks so who knows...this could continue into the spring and summer. There hasn't really been a big drop off in owners...even with the uncertainty of racing in these troubled times syndicates appear to be being sold. With no travel , concerts etc maybe this an influence currently. Plus the carrot of getting good money for a horse with real ability should you snare one.

It's history now but they were optimistically waiting on the windfall of 'changes.....the Racefield legislation , reduction in Gambling duty and a Point of Consumption Fee. A mythical $20 million,...they waited ,hoped ,waited ....even spent it ! But alas...... If you interested and haven't already ,read the Annual reports of NZRB/RITA and note the optimism oozing out. Once the bank loan was drawn down and Co-vid arrived ...it was all over. IMO the race dates/programmes etc need a real overhaul...of course Saturdays and Holidays often up against big Australian tracks but more marketing and promotion needed with NZ racing. The brand of " NZ Racing" has weakened significantly ...........hardly Rugby,racing and beer these days !

mikenz ,were you around recently when the TAB basically went bankrupt ...unable to pay debts and no reserves. In recent years the TAB paid out more to the codes than they were making...and splashed out on new betting platform. Much discussion took place on how stakes depend on betting numbers. At $10 k minimum for gallops this takes $80 - $100 k to hold a meeting plus all operation costs of running the TAB.....some $200mill. Hence in recent years gallops clubs have been receiving bulk funding per meetings to pay for stakes and operational costs eg in 2019 gallops TAB paid $73 mil to clubs who paid out $56 mil in stakes.Some would be charged back to TAB from clubs. Do the rough math. Margins to TAB have been shrinking with FO and sport. Say 10% ++. Racing started up on a prayer and hope ...a lot of uncertainty and little cash. Its not pretty , thats my guess. Only a few clubs have reserves ,as in CASH . Money solves a lot of problems !

I too often wonder why the great interest in turnovers ,even though they a huge influence on TAB profits and hence stakes ![ Bulk funding an influence] Sports Betting keeps growing ,Racing decreasing ...Fixed odds overall steady but lower margins in FO and sports [all sports is FO !] I guess the trends and comparisons with last year are of interest and nice to know . But are apples always being compared with apples ?eg at Alex Park trots the main tote on race night not part of TAB figures. Over 50% of betting TO done digitally now. Multis can be mixed codes/sports. Many on here are proud they mainly or always bet with Aussie or overseas totes/agencies. Some FACTS I find interesting , and I am aware the odd sniper will be watching for a slip up ! The top 2% of punters drive 56 % of betting[2019] ,some say the top 10% accounts for 90% . Kiwis bet more on Aussie races than NZ races.Harness betting has been decreasing for years and Greyhounds steadily catching up. In 2019 Harness both on and off course down by 13% approx. Fixed Odds up marginally On course down over 30% over past 5 years.Offcourse down 22% FO down 2.5%. Exported TO down 23%.Total races held 200 less [7.5%] ,Average field size up marginally......over the past 5 years ! Winners paying less than $2 down 5% 2019 ,cf 2018. At gallops Aussies bet 71% of what Kiwis bet on our races......we bet more on Aussie races than Kiwi races. A cynic could ask ,do we need Kiwi racing ?????? In NZ gallops a lot of oncourse figures fall well below $100k per race day A few got less than $50k..[Kumara a star with 227 k Many of the medium plus clubs average a million in total turnover ,but many don't make $1m. Having Saturday or Holiday dates obviously helps edge the average over $1 mill. Other interesting titbits picked up from around the traps...... A friend won $50 k [fifty !] off a $10 all up bet. Another acquaintance likes a punt , once risking $100k on a win at harness @ short odds ! Any questions...there will be a test in few days !

Wow ! The man and the author of above piece obviously well pleased with the changes in and progress of the NZ Racing Industry. Obviously there has been a lot of changes and his experience in governance been of use. However there appears to be a HUGE credibility gap between what the above suggests , our closeness to prosperity etc and the actual state of NZ racing / TAB / wagering etc and the fact it was recently bailed out by the Guvmint and the general consensus of many in the Industry who fear for their livelihoods. I'm sure the experts and critics on here will provide us a balance fairly quickly.

Earlier today I attended the website funeral service for Dene Biddlecombe a prominent owner and administrator in the Northern region. It was a very tasteful service ,a good send off for a well known man in Harness and Rugby League circles. Part-owner of a number of horses including Temporale. Dene had lived a very acitve life in both Business and sporting endeavours , and having got to know him in recent years ,while he battled the dreaded cancer I know he was a a very generous man prone to helping others. He used to MC the IHC fundraisers at the Auckland trots and donated much of his sporting memorobilia to that cause. RIP Dene.

Agreed JJ ,far too much negativity coming from the padded cell in the CD. But he right on one thing....racing/TAB needs more revenue ,but among the rhetoric his idea of having more horses and more races which will lead to more betting ,I'm not so sure this that easy. As he's been giving helpful advice to administrators for years ,I'm surprised he doesn't hold some prominent position where he can sort out the chaos other that just dominating this site and denigrating others opinions ! He does seem well rounded in racing......an I've done it all person.....!

WA Smith , AJT Stokes and possibly Vic Sellars ?

RIP Tony....a good bloke. Been in racing a long time . Thoughts go out to his family.

Just back from fact finding trip of South Island ,my second such trip this year ,touring one of the most amazing places on earth .....the province of Otago and in particular Central Otago. Have you ever been there ? And what exactly do you want from me to support my arguments ,which I view as my personal opinions from an enthusiastic participant. Last time I looked I put my trousers on the same way as most others on here. I'm always willing to comment on things I have have personally experienced over the years and support them with relevant facts. If anyone doesn't like my posts ,then I'd politely ask they don't read em. Tell me what you want my opinion on and I'll do my best if I think it worth wasting time on ......tell me what your area of expertise is ,what your pedigree is. There are a lot of 'weird' people out there .....keyboard warriors , educated direlects ! Got things to do today.

Always thinking us Tasman folk......one step ahead of the others ! Held the Ranfurly shield at one time......a lot of good wine grown here and produces several good sportsman. Had a bitter feud with Nelson over the the establishment of Tasman Rugby.....at the time Nelson had more and better players but Marlborough had the ground [asset]. The unhappy marriage eventually came right it appears ,as Tasman won Championship last year.Of course good old Canterbury cashed in the situation and saw the great potential of the situation so Tasman a big help to the Crusaders cause ! But Marlborough still not too happy with Tasman merger....if Mikie's response on here during lockdown any indication. Harness in area could have followed suit , but to be fair the region including West Coast/Kaikoura have had a collaborative body in recent times !Too little too late ??? This thread may flush Mikie out again ! Of course Marlborough harness often represented at the top table of Harness New Zealand. Always thinking.....a few years back they tried standing starts over a mile in harness.....how Mikie mocked when the ATC tried it last year !

Seems high. What then was the $900 odd extra for ? $150 for Track fees, $100 for supplements , $50 for gear hire .......what else ?

NZ Owners are very resilient......they will keep on paying ,more each year for similar or less stake money and/or opportunities. Some can make a bit if they sell overseas or strike a group 1 pony.

This totally correct.....the traditional way things were run was actually very 'convenient' to our lifestyles......TAB in every suburb , racing page in all papers, local track with a few meetings every year to enjoy....then into phone betting...all so easy. But costs spiralled out of control ,money all went into to running this expensive structure and stakes and racing very regionalised and conflicts of interest all over place. So we were going broke...Co-vid just brought it to conclusion. No more money left ,except to stumble on.....hoping for a miracle. Guvmint bailout a nice bandaid. Yet the resilient owners box on....unbelievable really ! 40 years ago they said there were far too many tracks in NZ......hence now they decide to close some everybody can't believe it ! Sports also have been killed by excessive costs[ salaries] but getting reprieve by current massive support at turnstiles. Racing unlikely to follow suit as interest is dying ...too boring for new generation with money to spend. Lotto and live rugby and eating out and flash phones with apps and stuff the current go. We all have mates like yours !

Cheers John , Correct I'm not a member ...you don't comment why 14 x member applications were declined , but I have been a customer for many years and actually have an Avondale Cup on my shelf. I posted cos a comment was made re Membership and I had read the case on-line. I believe VM had been a member for a long time...membership is not large so I assume he had friends/support in the club and I believe he had been a trainer there as well. Credentials I assume saw him considered fit enough to be elected on or accepted on to the committee some years back. I'm not too interested in why it turned to custard , but the fact is it did and to end up in the courts is an indictment to all concerned and is a poor reflection on the AJC. Court opinions often mean little in civil cases especially. I think the club should decide on what direction it should take in the future.....IMO the subject has had its time........like a long running Soap opera. Racing needs to improve its 'brand' and 'image' and having that facility in its current condition in NZ's main city , while governing administrators squabble constantly about it is not a good look. Give it to the Sallies ,build some housing , maintain some playing fields .....just do something !

Sorry I can't be more positive on this initiative but IMO it would be highly risky at the best of times ,let alone now with Co-vid making things so uncertain. I have been in several syndicates and various ownership groups,all with the type of goals/purpose you are trying to achieve. Once I was part of a group of 5 owners/investors in LAQ company , the idea being we would have 10 - 15 x horses and these would be traded thru sale and ready to run and a few would be raced by us.[ LAQC = Loss Attributing Qualifying Company ] The group would pay tax on profits while any share of losses could be offset against our Individual tax. It worked OK for a few years then petered out....we had a few winners , sold an Oaks winner and I personally thought it a reasonable way to be involved. We originally put some money in each then took out a Bank loan to give the start up Capital. Admin fees were kept to a minimum , except for a Chartered Acct to ensure we were compliant with Tax and reporting requirements. Your model with significantly more money ,more investors ,Board members etc suggests more compliance costs and many people sucking off it. Racing is difficult enough , breeding IMO is brutal. At every level you would be competing with some very successful industry players. A group of 10 or 20 in an ownership group can be demanding.......5000.......WOW ! .Like herding cats....big struggle ! A lot of well -known experienced folk have set up syndicates/ownership groups but found it 'too hard'. Good luck at attracting even 100 investors . My experience was , the ongoing training bills of many horses battling to win a $10k race, soon eats up your Group 1 winners earnings......with a few 'superstar' exceptions. My recent breeding experience has also been fairly average.....our last filly from our mare brought in $5 k [a $15k stud fee ] and the previous one was even less.The mare who has had 4 x to races [ all winners] we recently sold for $600 [six hundred] carrying a $12k live foal positive. Aside from above negatives I've had my share of wins / trophies / photos /excitement etc so it not all bad .......plenty of positives but Investing in horses can be an expensive hobby .

Google Vince Middledorf v Avondale Jockey Club which in part was due to AJC declining 14 x membership applications and the suspension of VM as a member and committee person.Its totally absurd the lengths this club has gone to .....talk about wasting time and money ! The whole thing seems totally unnecessary....certainly there are many vendettas around this Club IMO and though they cash flow in recent years the future seems bleak IMO and the NZ Racing Industry should not waste time and breathe on them. Sell the place ,give the funds to whoever is due them and look to the future....NZ racing could certainly do with some $ but if its Plunket , community housing or whatever , just move on.

Sorry , I'm not even close to what happens at NZ Met and how they operate. Just commenting on a glance at their 2019 accounts .....looked at many on-line during lockdown. Always many questions re stakes.....sadly with Harness betting on steady decline they can only be maintained if Clubs get revenue from other sources...not easy !

ATC obviously went on a 'Think Big' project with the Apartments when they saw Horse ownership dropping away with the sharply rising costs of Harness in the region. Considerably higher stakes into the future was seen as the answer. Most of the Board were very active owners/trainers/breeders. Also this has mean't the club has added to the HRNZ payout for stakes , one of a few clubs in NZ who did this. Galloping across NZ was 77%. About 70% stakes to payout seemed about the norm. Meanwhile NZ Met have been far more prudent ,protecting their nestegg. A quick glance of 2019 accounts showed approx $10mill of $13 mill received ,paid out in Stakes. NZ Met has good equity.....$83 mill....including $7mill cash. Investment buildings of $57 mill with $28 mill borrowings. They made about $860 k in the 2019 yr plus $1 mill Depreciation.....they pay $1 mill in Interest. The Racing side of their business needs these other revenue streams to survive and try and future proof the Industry. NZ met ,IMO ,could comfortably increase stakes ,but Harness Owners are very resilient and seem to accept the lousy returns ! Still plenty of horses in South ,especially in Canterbury. NZ Met financially prudent/ cautious. ATC......still talking tough but will need considerable income from Interests outside Racing ,plus a patient Bank manager and low Interest to survive ! Talk is one thing.....action ???????

As usual, called by for a couple of races........pleased you had a good time ,and can see the potential ! Look out for me on Saturday when I check in .....round the coffee cart !

A sensible 'band aid' solution.Shows some maybe new found collaboration and common sense . But don't see this as an indicator as to the future. Avondale still a run down facility , few people want to go there , and the weather often worse than other micro-climates of the city. Horse population getting further away all the time !

I'll go for Pace N Pride......bad draw but a nice moving colt at trials ! The Dunn horses may ensure a strong pace !