bazach

Great post Midget. We have too many tracks, and too little money to upgrade facilities to the level the public expect in the 21st century. We have greatly changed how towns and cities operate with great roads and fast cars. Having areas like Waikato with four courses, all within 45 minutes drive of each other, and all having what I call 1970s facilities is not going to engender any interest whatsoever in racing from the younger generations. Pooling resources, selling off, or retaining sources for training only if applicable, and buying an unimproved rural property to build a top class racing and equine facility - which would also have function rooms non racing people would want to use, may sound radical, but isn't it needed for the survival and rejuvenation of the industry?

I haven't done this but it is a really good question. Maybe the main issues are around any costs, and at exactly what day the arrangement (lease) is to start and stop, ie does the lessee keep the mare until the foal is weaned? What if the owner (lessor) wants to get the mare back in foal at first heat after the foal is born - who is responsible for agistment costs etc when the mare goes to a stud with the new foal which belongs to the lessee? Cafers who have done this will likely have answers ot these questions.

A great post, and really hits the nail on the head I think - so what if it's only a dream; life is short. The only difference between me and you Catalano is that my wife talked me INTO giving it away!

Most stallions don't live up to the hype given when they first arrive, and Per Incanto will (IMHO) be just another also ran. One or two good horses from a first crop doesn't translate into a success, but the studs are very quick to up the service fee on the back of a couple of promising types. Certainly doesn't justify more than a 6-7k service fee in my view.

Agree. Although I haven't seen him (Raise the Flag), his dam left 7 stakes-winners from 8 foals including Dansili, so I can't see Northern Hemisphere breeders letting him go easily if they thought he would make a successful sire. All the best to his connections though, and the South Island has produced some amazing stallions also with no race form but great pedigrees (Mellay for example).

I just wonder whether there is any point having a sale at Karaka at the end of July with two on-line auctions now operating. Usually there are only around a hundred horses entered, and the numbers on the on-line auctions aren't too bad seeing it is a new concept. Opinions?

I was talking to a fellow 'Naki man about this sire the other day. I would like some info on whether it is possible to go anywhere on the 'net' to find out about stallions of years gone by. It doesn't seem like it, as I have 'googled' Roland and nothing comes up. The current on-line studbook doesn't give a lot of info except he left 8 broodmare daughters all born in 1969 and 1970, so clearly his stud 'career' was short. From memory he stood at Ngaere at Mount View Stud alongside My Pal and Bucentaur - I believe the stud was owned by a (Peter?) Cooper, who I think died quite young. Roland himself was very well bred being by Oman (who descends through his dam to Frizette) out of Citril, making him a full brother to the dam of Thnk Big. Also from memory, - I think he was an unbeaten racehorse having four starts as a two year old for four wins, and didn't race again - no doubt cafers will correct me on any of this if I am wrong. I would be interested to know why it seems he only did a couple of years at stud - ie died young, didn't get any mares etc etc. Of his horses to race, the very versatile mare Ngaere Dawn, and good two and three year old Kija (died at three) were, from my memory, his best horses.

Cripes, their rear ends are identical in the photo! Agree, a great pedigrees going back to Malva, also the ancestress of Summertime, Crest of the Wave, and Palm Beach.

The big issue in my view is whether what happens with any species of animal, is cruel. I don't have a problem with people like "safe" and the SPCA, providing they stick to identifying and dealing with "cruelty" to animals, and don't digress into areas like releasing feral cats etc. I can also understand the 'anti' feeling around for rodeos as it is a debatable subject whether putting flank ropes on animals is cruel. Similarly, excessive use of the whip in horse racing is definitely cruel to the animal in my view. Interestingly, Monty Roberts, the "horse whisperer" has been involved with all types of equines including thoroughbreds and is totally against whips in racing. Going back to the initial posting by barryb; dealing with any public backlash over the death of jumping horses will not be easy. As pointed out above though, horses die jumping in many other areas from pony club, to eventing, to show jumping, to hunting, and I can't see why racing jumping races should be singled out. Interesting that they still have all the aforementioned activities in Australia, so why pick on horse racing??

Where do you think their money has come from? The Chitticks, Camrbridge Stud, Windsor Park, and maybe Rich-hill have made fortunes - from the poor buggers (90%+ of small time breeders)who pay the exorbitant stud fees to their 'next best thing' stallion. I have to admit the aforementioned studs have a great eye for a good horse to make a good stallion, but even a good stallion would only have a small percentage of its stock actually turn a profit on the track.

Hopefully it will be good news if you have the right mare! However, without wishing to sound negative, calling any financial interest in horses as an 'investment' is 'drawing a long bow' in my view.

You are almost there with that suggestion. What they actually need to do in the Waikato is to show some real vision - and for the clubs to all get together, agree to sell all tracks in the Waikato, buy a farm, and establish a world class racing and equine facility, with a synthetic and grass racing surface. Okay, we do need to keep some tracks for training, so this radical vision would need some work (!), but if we are serious about the industry and attracting younger people to the races and the racing 'game' in good numbers, we can only do it with a real vision to create top quality facilities.

In addition Swoopa, there are less horses being bred - the days of the local 'cow cocky' having a broodmare or two have all-but finished, I believe foals being bred are now around 4,000, and the wider Asian market is buying plenty, so supply and demand are working well. Maybe some ex mare owners will be encouraged back, as long as studs don't see this (so far) short term increase as a way to crank up stud fees.

I see they bought 20 weanlings today. Does anyone know who they are? Will these horses be staying in NZ etc? Thanks.

When you go through catalogues and see how many foals mares have, how many winners, and then how many stakes winners, you would have to ask yourself "why breed from my own mare?" - at least to race. In my opinion, most stud fees are too high. I guess they are market driven, and if Asia keep buying, then all is good. It would be interesting to have some statistical analysis done (maybe it has already) based on the number of foals born each year in NZ, and how many would pay their way using average rearing and training fees over a 3-4 year period of racing. I guess this would be difficult to assess because of the number heading off shore. But my observations tell me it would less than 3% or 4% who stay in NZ. Getting back to the thread, unless your mare is a K1 mare, why would you even want to pay 5k for most stallions, when you don't know how crooked the foal's legs will be, and what other issues it may have.

There is also enough in Power's pedigree, and the progeny of Oasis Dream to suggest that his progeny will run a good middle distance as they mature, especially when bred to the stouter NZ mares.

Good point Mattski about stallions imported here who have raced in the US. I also believe that they have performed below expectations. I don't have any stats, just basing it on empirical evidence and following breeding here for 40 years. Probably this topic should be a separate post, but certainly worth discussing. They do race a lot on dirt, and many seem to bring leg issues with them which they leave with their offspring. Again, I don't have any stats, but would be interested in others' views.

Forgot about this fella! - Umteen; half brother by Alcimedes to champion sire Sobig (Summertime). He was a poor racehorse and - a poorer sire. I had one by him - couldn't keep up with our dog! Sad really, because with that pedigree you would have thought a few good ones would have emerged.

True Huey. My comment is more generic - aimed at all studs. I wish the connections of Per Incanto all the best.

25 winners from 73 runners isn't a great record for Per Incanto. As usual, the hype and bullshit that emanates from a stud farm when 1 or 2 of the 100+ mares served produces a good horse - meant that Per Incanto was able to serve about 150 mares last season.

Any comments on the offerings? Interesting that there are more colts than fillies this year. Are these sales still looked on as dumping grounds for incorrect horses? Interested in feedback from cafers.

OKay - going back aways, but from the Naki, some failures not mentioned so far, were Scotch Dewar, Nuclear Pulse, Sergeant Major, Tod Craig, etc.

Actually, the three full brothers Noholme (US), Todman (Aus) and Shifnal (NZ) were all very successful at stud. Todman has also left his mark as a sire f sires.

Prince Bright? Stood at Wynthorpe alongside the great Copenhagen, but despite some good mares, I can't recall him leaving much. No doubt 'Gubes' will have all the statistics!

Maybe not even a two horse wonder Lloyd. Regal Band was a very good mare.