jess

- who sanctioned the opening of a book on the NZ TAB which offered odds on the horse not winning, winning by less than/more than 4 lengths. Now that the enquiry has been opened, it would be very interesting to know what (besides questioning the jockey) investigations will be carried out. I guess the debate has been dominated a little by the arguments for or against the way the horse was ridden - pro and anti Tinsley. I understand that will be looked into but my focus when I started the thread was more the fundamental question about the bet type being offered. I hope this will be addressed and the outome of the enquiry explained in a transparent manner to the racing public.

Summed things up in that one line I think ...

- but in my experience it's more about WHO you sell (or give) the horse to than how much (if anything) you ask for it. There are quite a few ppl around now who reschool OTT horses and have sound reputations. And often if you make a few enquiries you can get a fair idea what any prospective owner is about - and whether they will care well for the horse. It works both ways too - I know of a TB a trainer had allowed (following its retirement) to lose a huge amount of weight till he was in poor condition with significant muscle wasting. He went to a fantastic home with a person who is fed him twice a day and reschooled him as a sport-horse. PS: the trainer was getting paid top dollar by the owner to agist the horse after he'd finished racing and awaited re-homing.

- my little Aussie cobber. Thank you. The reference to all Pakistani people was a generalisation and quite unforgiveable. I should have clarified it to say certain members of the Pakistan cricketing community. But back to the original matter - Pogo - do they have such betting options via the Aussie betting agencies?

Betting option at Trentham today around Red Cougar in Race 3. Options of Red Cougar not winning, RC winning by more than 4 lengths, RC winning by less than 4 lengths. Did you see the ride/race? It is hard enough to keep the game above board with the betting currently available, without introducing this sort of betting. IMO - this is dangerous territory. Hugely open to manipulation and race-fixing. I hope the NZ TAB accepts bets from Pakistani punters - I'm sure they'd be tempted to get involved. What say you - C George and your integrity crew?

... and racing 2 currently .. soon to be 3 - can't afford to put too much thru the tote just now!

- to back off Larry - if you are prepared tp tell us that, maybe it assists your credibility - I can't see that it jeopardises any enquiry . . .

for you to tell us specifically who the officials were who phoned you Larry?

In NZ Larry?

- by figuring out why ppl use them and then improving the TAB service so ppl are happy to bet here. Look at, among other things : - returns to punters - service (don't get me started on that - NZ; TAB well behind Aussie counterparts) - preferential treatment for big punters eg. separate phone line for bets over $50 WHERE THE PHONE GETS ANSWERED BEFORE THE RACE HAS JUMPED! - free cellphone line for bets over $50 While the TAB shows no sign of taking up the challenge and competing with the others - the leakage from our industry will continue.

... or should that be prejudice?? - that racing is not a sport - it's a business/industry - and so our performers haven't achieved the recognition people in other sports have. And yet in this day and age of professionalism - what makes JKB any less of a "sportsman" than Richie McCaw? Once that parity is accepted - why wouldn't such a name (JKB) be thrown into the mix and left for the judges (and public - depending on the category) to vote on?

Well done all. Such a professional looking outfit all round - which was a pleasure to witness on the Aussie stage for all to see. Horse well turned out - performance superlative - and both trainer and jockey well spoken - yes, emotional - but responsive to the questions, spoke in more than mere cliches, and thoroughly professional. My favorite 5-10 mins of Trackside coverage yesterday, for sure. Good on you all. PS: and well done Trina also. She is a talent in her own right when it comes to the horses and I'm sure a lot of extra hard work goes her way with family and the horses when JKB is away.

I agree - looks a really nice type. Very athletic and has a lot of the sire about him - color, head, athleticism and muscling. Incidentally, I thought a pretty good video to promote him too - not easy to get informative video of an unweaned foal and yours gave a pretty good indication of his movement etc (liked the human component in it too - a nice move there! )

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10713649 Another disgrace. Unless the farm was out the back of beyond - how come things got this bad before action was taken? It sounds like it's not the first time this person has come to notice ... My observation is that the SPCA is weak when it comes to cruelty and prosecuting the perpetrators. But they are donation-funded so perhaps that limits them? - if so, they should collaborate with MAF - and in cases when they do - is MAF as hard-nosed as they should be tackling these cases??

- nice to see an older horse bag a good race - and an NZ one at that. Congrats also to the breeders, Fairdale Stud.

Gotcha Big Guy! ... told ya u were acerbic ... I reckon that's a cough! :heart:

... or if you saw the potential of HC as a top sire before the exploits of SYT et al - you got in at some pretty reasonable fees. Afterall - HC was alwasy beautifully bred, awesomely performed - and the only negative was that he was young and unproven. Does make you wonder now what young sire you should be taking a punt on eh ...

... j'st now and again we might have a wee spar together ... (although not a spa together :eek: - we'd have to get to know each other a little better before we went that far .... )

Helmut - I too, think that would be an improvement to the current information and I've often thought it would be nice (and surely not that hard!) if the ratings changes/history was more accessible. The conspiracy theorist in me wonders if the handicapper doesn't like the idea quite so much??? PS: Rumpole - gotta agree - assertive aint a bad thing - but argumentative? Not for argumentative's sake - but for a good cause - sure! Cheers. J

.. and before you launch another acerbic attack - my "niether" was merely a typo.

- did your mother never tell you - that if what you're about to say (or post on a forum ) is niether kind nor helpful (constructive) - then don't say it. Clearly the question was about accessing retrospective data. Well -I thought it was clear anyway.

Just thinking of a (sort of) hypothetical situation .... ... so if someone was high profile, highly successful in recent times, somewhat connected - but a renown/repeat bad debtor - would that person be treated equitably and face publication just as readily as the nobody who trains 2 slow ones who live in the crappy paddock down next to the railway line? Might be part of the objectivity issue Todamax was alluding to ...

also out. Hard luck to the owners/trainer. Anyone know why? This horse promised so much from the start - bred to be very good indeed. He has been far from a failure and I'd be more than happy to breed one as good - but perhaps not quite achieved what the connections were entitled to dream of?? Conformation/Soundness? - or the fact he often fails to settle well early in his races? Some other reason? Interested in yr views ...

- she's done enough. What's more. she's still in one piece and an early-to-stud, high quality Starcraft mare. From a small-time breeder, big-time dreamer - Good luck to you Paul. Jess

.. on classifieds here first? Not sure what the fee is/if any these days ....?