TOM(the other Molloy)

You would want to ask the question of the credentials of Deloittes to be undertaking an enquiry or consultancy anyway. Insofar as I know Deloittes are hardly a major benefactor of NZ Racing. Preparing a report into the future of NZ Racing(and I haven't bothered reading it as it will no doubt be more of the same tripe we have been served time and time again) would surely require some in depth knowledge of the industry not just a poncy letterhead? The West Coast has had multiple 'Economic Development Studies' done in my time invariably by 'Deloittes' types - I reckon the only thing that has changed is that originally the consultant rode up on a pushbike and now he rolls up in Mercedes Benz

What you need is a few more derogatory comments about a certain racecourse of which you are very fond -you know the one where it is like lotto as to whether the races will run or not. Anyway since you have been on the NZTR website I hopped on myself. Interesting Ocean Guard won the National Hurdles in 1988 with a stake of $60000. Maidens at the time we're running around for $2500. Last year the National was worth $75000 and the maidens ran around for $10000. Interesting percentage increases. Cappiemore won his maiden at Riccarton in 1982 for $1750.

Thought I'd be interested? Way back in this thread Jape mentioned 3ZB having a quiz one Saturday about who the 'winningest' horse in NZ racing that day was. In response I brought up Ocean Guard and pointed out he won more. I work straight off my memory - I don't need the NZTR website or a book. Clearly Ocean Guard wasn't running that day. You then join in a couple of days later like a tattle tale ' Ocean Guard won 23 Cappiemore 18' as if I have been misleading everyone and trying to build the Coast horse up. I made it clear all along Ocean Guard won more. I reiterate they were both good genuine hardy character horses but neither was a WFA star in the Grey Way mould and neither will be inducted into the hall of fame. You are like a certain Sunday morning Trackside radio presenter who likes to makes out his knowledge is encyclopedic. When someone brings up the 1953 Taumaranui Cup he delays enough to dive into that racing history book(I'e got a copy if it too) then comes up with 'oh yes it was so and so ridden by Johnny Riordan' as if he knew it all along.

Yes I was aware Ocean Guard won more Ted. And have said so. We can all go to the NZTR website and find out the facts so I can only assume you are being a smart arse. In defence of the Coast horse he didn't handle the shit which Ocean Guard did and second Ocean Guard's trainer was a full timer who didn't have to worry about the farm during the winter. Lambing for instance took August preference when a professional trainer might have been at the National. Neither was a champion but they were both good. Again as I have said Grey Way's achievements put them both into perspective.

He might have been good looking but he was a low mongrel. And if you knew Kevin Doolan you would know when he made a call he would not back down. As I said and Morty would agree you were very rarely in doubt about what he thought in any given situation. He also didn't give an eff who you were be it horse jockey trainer stipe journalist or nephew - if you stepped out of line you copped it. Not saying he was always right or some sort of God but he was always decisive. Having said that the horse can not have been that outstanding. He didn't pay huge money for him

Essentially correct - it was a son riding him but not the usual one. We chased the prick for ten minutes then the old boy said very quietly 'go and get the gun'. The bastard thought he knew every trick in the book but there was one he didn't. All the old boy cared about was 'don't hit the saddle or the bridle. Kill him'. Prior to that the trick had been to work the mongrel in a ploughed paddock. He could buck but not for long before he got tired. Once that happened they had him but from the day he got him you could never catch the prick. You could write a book on Kevin Doolan and his escapades both in racing and in general life. He never left you in much doubt what he was thinking put it that way.

Another amusing little Kevin Doolan anecdote. That horse Union Chief that CWJ won then lost on at Nelson that time. Earlier on about 1978 or 79 one Kevin William Morton rode him one day at Reefton. After another superb display of horsemanship from the south's premier hoop the little man sat up nicely for the winning photo (always liked a nice pose at the line did Morty). Now Reefton, as has been previously discussed, had a shocking finishing angle in those days and down the outside came a horse called Little Dan ridden by Tommy Cowan. Despite it looking like Morty had half a length on him the other horse was so wide in the track he actually got up to nab Union Chief. I wasn't there to witness it personally but I understand the little man turned on quite a performance of not accepting the result and demanding to see the photo. Although he rode plenty of winners there our beloved Midget has the odd sour memory of the Reefton racecourse. Anyway all was well - three days later at Kumara the wee chap redeemed himself winning indisputably on the same horse and breaking the track record for 1600m. Something like 1.42 as I remember. Kumara was always a bog in those times and they usually went closer to 2min for 1600 than 1.36. That track record stood for absolute years until they renovated the track.

Jimmy Moffat won about his first five on him and Lance O'Sullivan did ride him at Hoki one day though another bog track stopped him that time. Hoki used to invite a top northern jockey to their meetings hence O'Sullivan and Stewart riding him on ocassion. The Imperial Guard horse was Border Guard - plenty of ability but not too inclined to show it raceday. He met a nasty end - they leased/gave him to a bloke in Westport. One day they were walking past an empty house that had been wired incorrectly and he dropped dead on the spot! Something about horses hearts beating in different rhythms to humans I believe. Shocking (if you will pardon the pun) but they got some money out of the Power Board at least. Wasn't a great loss to NZ racing. And the Shirley Fauth horse was Round Up not Last Round Up. Shirley herself died tragically. She was riding in a bike race, got to the turning point and, despite people frantically waving and trying to stop her, turned straight into the path of an oncoming truck. RIP

I am not having a go at the individuals concerned here. It is the system. Jason has made it clear in the past he pays his own airfares and I know these guys love the game and would go anywhere. It is the people who do the scheduling who are the issue - clearly they don't give a stuff how they spend industry money. Mind you I suppose better value for money in yesterday's performance than in carting a plane load of NZ racing administrators to Hong Kong or Dubai on a junket.

Cappiemore incidentally come from the place in Ireland where the Doolan's came from. The correct name is Cappamore I think but by mistake he got Cappiemore. My sister Julie went there and the sign was something like Cheapach Mhor (in gaelic of course). The Danny Doolan's Bar name came from Kevin Doolan's father Danny Doolan (grandfather of a couple of racecafe members myself included of course)

Yes he was at Hoki one time. In fact I think Gene won a race on him in the deep mud ( I know I said he hated it but on class alone he did win an early race or two in the bog). On the second day he failed to take the tight corner on the bend out of the straight and that was the end of Gene as his rider. With all due respect he was not really a kid's horse. Headstrong and accordingly difficult to control especially around the corners on the Coast. He really loved Riccarton where he won five or six I think but where the corners suited his style. Another day at Hoki in the mud Gary Stewart rode him. Went no good and when he came back the verdict was 'didn't handle it a yard'. I remember looking at the welts on his bum and thinking 'if he hits an old handicapper struggling in the ground that hard how hard does he belt Bonecrusher?' As with all horses you are or were close too there are plenty of stories.

This is probably a minor example in terms of NZRB excesses but......... I tune in today to Riccarton and surpirised to find Marc Cookson presenting. Then Jason Teaz doing the commentating. Both very professional and both doing a nice job but........ Resident in Christchurch are Matthew Cross, Greg O 'Connor and the Fahey girl all of whom have proven themselves able presenters on TS. Now Mark McNamara had Addington tonight so maybe did not want two meetings in one day ( though he has handled it before) but Matt Cross is a real talent in the commentary position so why not make use of him? Presumably he did the First Call in Auckland this morning but for f*#ks sake is there nobody else in the North capable of dealing with it as a one off? And when it comes down to it could Mark not have dealt with a couple of Riccarton races while Matt got back? Matt is now doing comments at Auckland tonight - are Guerin and Thompson both crook? So we have Cookson flying Auckland Christchurch return, Teaz either Dunedin Christchurch or Hamilton Christchurch return, Cross Christchurch Auckland return and Guerin, Thompson and O'Connor redundant for the day? All or most no doubt paid an allowance (as government agencies are want to do) for being away overnight. What a way to see the world! Incidentally it is notable how few opportunities Matt Cross is getting in the gallops now. That is a fair bit of talent being ignored.

good luck

He has drawn worse than Bonneval did! But again he is the class horse in the circumstances(WFA, at the distance and in that direction) so if he managed to get a decent run from 13 or wherever he starts??? Scapolo and Savvy Dreams are both off the track draw wise as well Go Consensus!

Course running around in the early years of Cappiemore's & Ocean Guard's careers was a fair nag called Grey Way who managed to win 51 or 52 so that puts the those horse's achievements into perspective. They were merely good - he was in another class altogether. What a great great horse he was. Still reckon that Easter Handicap he won is one of my all time favourite racing memories. Raced a cast of stars the wrong way around and simply would not be beat. Back on that Kevin Doolan he actually gave Chris Johnson his first South Island win(well sort of). Chris was apprenticed to the Hammersley's at Woodville and came to Nelson. Rode a horse called Union Chief for the Doolans, won but got relegated for interference. Rode him again the second day but got galloped on so badly he had to be put down. Another great South Island racing chapter(CWJ) commenced.

A lot of bloody good horses came out of Ikamatua and a lot of credit goes to the brilliant training track on the property of Bill Kennedy(who trained plenty of them himself). Unfortunately now turned into cow paddocks but Roger Hampton, the O'Malleys, Kevin Doolan and the Kennedy's themselves all produced plenty of winners from there. It was a six furlong plough and grass track and only ceased usage a year or so ago when the O'Malleys gave up training themselves (when Peter went dairy farming). While Cappiemore was from 'Atarau' Kevin Doolan's farm was only a couple of miles down the road from Kennedy's which in turn was only a couple of miles from Ikamatua Re the winningest horse in NZ at the time Cappiemore was in a ding dong battle with Ocean Guard another from those great southern families and trained by Rex Cochrane. Every time Cappiemore would get one ahead Ocean Guard would catch up (or vice versa). I think Ocean Guard won a National Hurdles - he was a bit more adept in bad ground that was Cappiemore. They raced one another on several occasions. Pretty much even results. Ocean Guard might have ended up with 20 wins maybe versus Cappiemore's 18(it would have been more I am sure but a crook batch of feed badly affected him and when he dropped his rider in a hurdle race at Riccarton on his comeback Kevin Doolan pulled the pin) . He wasn't the classiest horse ever but you knew when he went to the races on a decent track you would get his very very best effort. Won a highweight at Riccarton one day under 69 when the minimum was 57. the Old Boy could hardly carry the saddle with all the lead.

Well put CC The most frustrating thing dealing with small business people(as clients) all the time is how government departments, councils and other 'authorities' (and big companies get like it too) have no consideration that everything costs(whether it be in monetary terms or in time terms). When you are paying the bill yourself you appreciate where the money (or resources) go

I'd say lack of accountability to the industry of the various Boards. They don't give a shit about the industry participants. The Finance Minister could start by giving Glenda the DCM

Whether he should have lost it or not it is history(33 years ago) and both horse and owner/trainer are now passed on. His mother was apparently a tiny mare and generally left small foals though he was a big horse probably 16.5 hands. I saw his full sister once and she would have been 14 hands high and not one little bit like him. One of the advantages he did have was as much tucker as he would eat shoved into him. I know it is a long time ago and things have changed but he also never saw a Vet. My uncle, a bloody good farmer, relied on his own skills to gauge the horse's state of health. The Vet came only twice - to geld him and to put him down. He did go to another stable to get his jumping ticket(though he had been taught on the farm) and his first hurdle race and wasn't the air blue when the bill arrived with 'pre race vitamins' detailed. No sense of humour my Uncle! The horse was as likely to be poking around the scrub being used to chase black cows as on a race course. He was a competitive prick and the breeding bulls in particular used to hate him. His mother's(mixed Herbs correct and by Kurdistan as you say) family was reasonably successful - Old Thymer being a notable who won an NZ Cup. Ah nostalgia!

Well that is like saying the Oaks is penalty free. if you are giving credit for an Oaks placing then they should be giving ratings points for the same. It is like two methods of handicapping are in operation.

1600m and drawn 12? If she does win it(and on class she stands out) then it is a fair effort.

He was tough but he had to be - that little fella(my Uncle Kevin Doolan) asked a lot of him and he usually delivered. He was pretty versatile and tried hard but as I say he absolutely hated wet tracks and being from the Coast he often arrived home after a race in superb nick only to have a month before his next one. Kevin Doolan was a bit unorthodox in some of his methods and often asked the horse to do things others might have balked at(like running him in an open 1600m at Riccarton four days after winning hurdle race at Rangiora for instance. He had broken the track record at Rangiora - still stands and will forevermore and got beat a length or so in the 1600m in (I think) 1.35) And yes he did win and have taken off him a Greymouth Cup(Our Secret Weapon being the benefactor). The late Ray Hewinson rode him. Michael Pitman is not the first one to get the s*#ts with the GJC - the old boy said 'I will kick the mud off my boots and I won't be back' - they spent the next ten years trying to entice him to return to no avail. It was a long long time ago however. I think he was about the only half decent one Thoreau ever left. One or two decent jumpers but that was that.

I know you are only explaining why this 'anomaly' occurs. But if they are going to be ranked higher because of group one placings why are their ratings not boosted to reflect that? Or alternately why is Scapolo not dropping like a stone in the ratings because he is running in inferior races and often not managing to win them? K Myers would be entitled to expect substantial weight relief if this were a handicap(yeah right!). Makes the handicapper look like an idiot in my opinion(and I know most of Racecafe think he is so lets not get started on that)

Well that cannot be it because Savvy Dreams hasn't won a stakes race in that time and Scapolo has(Sweynesse Stakes at Rotorua). I thought he whole idea of WFA was to get the best(ie highest rated) horses showing their class at set weights. He is only two away from the ballot list for God's sake!

Cappiemore never started at Waimate I don't think(in fact I am certain) but you are right he was a very handy horse and a very hardy horse as well. He was one of few in NZ history to win an open handicap an open hurdle and an open steeplechase in one season. His biggest problems with jumping were he hated wet tracks and he was trained at Atarau on the West Coast and the travel in the winter was hard work with the passes. I did a hell of a lot of travelling with him and you are right he did start in the St Leger of1982 - pulled his head off(he was very free going) and faded out in a race won by Secured Deposit. He won 18 races alltogether. Those starter lists have a few notable parents as well as jockeys - Judy Hawes(Collett) the mother of Natasha, Jason and Alesha, Jim Collett the father of Sam of course, Peter McKay the father of Jacob and Shaun. Snooky Cowan the father of Kate, Danny Frye the father of Ashley and Paul Richards the father of Jamie. All achievers themselves as riders and all gone on to produce notable offspring in the game. Surprised KW Morton was not down for a mount - probably suspended for some misdemenour at the time I note the legendary Maurice Carl Thornley down for a couple of neddies.