mardigras

Whilst change is needed, I'd rather all the prospective people being sufficiently intelligent and you don't qualify. You need to drop the superiority complex. Of course I realise you were taking the piss, so on that basis, your point is well made.

Missing the point is spot on. I advocate racing getting more. A lot more. From racing. At the time of the Racing Act, racing was largely self sufficient. And when the tax rules changed on betting, they had every chance of getting a lot more and still being largely self sufficient. They aren't. NZ racings contribution to the NZRB net surplus is likely around 20% - 25% of the funding they get. Not bad. And most of that comes from race field styled fees generated off-shore. And their contribution level is decreasing each year. Yet you think that is all fine. Because you are a fan of racing and support racing and everyone on this site should want that - since it is a racing site.

I think it is pretty easy to predict where this is going. NZ racing is now minute. A very small contributor to the economy. I expect a new report is likely to be sought detailing what they believe that economic benefit to be in the not too distant future. No government that wants to stay in power will just gift 100 million+ dollars to something each year without some level of justification. They likely had the justification 15 years ago. I can't see that they do now. Eventually, politicians being politicians, this will come to a head. I don't know what the deal is. But if the government is to keep gifting funds to racing (and some to sports), I bloody well hope that the fees to sports go up a lot. That might help NZ racing buy some time in which they hopefully start working through a strategy of focusing on NZ racing and how to make it self sustainable. Rather than relying on revenue from sport, pokies and off-shore racing. At some point, some one is going to ask the question as to why the government is persisting with propping up an industry delivering no benefits to NZ. I have been a huge fan of racing in NZ. But what we have now is not something the government should waste the current level of money on. I think there are areas more needing of those funds. The country was up in arms about spending a few million on the flag debate. Imagine if they actually knew what the government gifts the racing industry every year from revenue that is 100% unrelated to it. Instead of worrying about why revenue unrelated to NZ racing is possibly going to be lost to NZ racing, perhaps start worrying about what NZ racing needs to do to actually start generating revenue for itself.

Sadly, as much as many seem to want to take great steps to have racing protected with what they have got. Racing has reached this very point by its own actions (or inaction). Now 10-15 years down the track of cocking it up, it seems they expect the status quo should remain and the government largesse should just keep on going. It certainly isn't realist thinking, it is fantasyland.

Berri, it is good to hear you are an advocate of making NZ a betting mecca. Sadly that seems to contrast with your own view that you are a realist. What is actually the issue if any deal with sports increases their payments by 100%, 200% or even more? You seem to be hung up on what the Act states currently without thinking about it being a moving piece of legislation. What might be suitable for racing up to now, might require tweaking because it is no longer suitable for racing to receive what it gets. Did you expect the Racing Act to carry on supporting the racing industry in perpetuity irrespective of the level of interest and benefits the industry provides? Is that how you think governments work?

Probably neither. Race field fees are already paid by the Oz TABs to NZ and likely have the largest market share on NZ racing in Oz as they do on Oz racing. And getting bookies to be good corporate citizens may not happen anyway so compliance is always going to be an issue. As for the deal with Sport. Trivial and not worth wasting time on, IMO. Using net profit is likely to mean NZRB is not exposed to paying a sport even when they make no 'net' money from the sport. I expect it is more of a safety net for NZRB. And if it turns out that sport get 2 - 3 times more, then that would be a good thing.

Berri, is the details of what sport get important because you believe racing has some form of entitlement to that revenue? They don't. Racing don't have any of those assets, they don't have any IP. They simply get given what the government thinks they are worthy of getting. Justification for getting that is in free fall and anything that keeps the other parties happy for a little bit longer is something racing should welcome with open arms.

Do you want to compare two tote based jurisdictions, both with decent betting populations and with very strict rules around accessing alternative betting providers. is that what you think NZ should go with? If they had done so 15 years ago, they may have survived. We'll never know. But I have been of the view that the NZ tote betting operator never needed to offer fixed odds.

They are in what you would call a no win situation. They need to somehow get the funds from elsewhere because of the attitude bringing about where they are now. So they need this. And this will ultimately continue to demonstrate that the racing industry provides no benefits to NZ. And so it will go on until someone does as per what is expected and changes the rules regarding NZ racing funding.

You point has never been disagreed with by me.

Yep, you've both gone on about the current Act. Has it taken you this long to actually try and read it? Sports should get more than they do. If that is to be changed, good news. What will be the bad thing for racing is when the Act gets changed and funding to racing is altered to be solely based on surplus revenue generated from NZ racing alone. That is what you should be worried about now. Because the trends are showing there is nothing to be gained by a political party retaining the Act to fund racing the way it currently does. Yet you two are worried about the payments to sport being changed slightly.

I've seen nothing that makes me disagree with you there. But on the Act, if the government is to continue with surplus revenues being handed out to racing with some going to sport, I fully support the idea of sport getting more of that. A minor shift in the level of subsidy afforded racing by way of the Act would have to be better than a complete rewrite of the Act removing most of the current subsidy from them. Surely racing is better off sacrificing a little now, than increasing the focus to the political 'groups' as to their lack of benefit to NZ as a whole. It might well delay the likely inevitable for another 5 - 10 years giving racing the chance to rectify things such that they are once again an important part of NZ's fabric and its economy before the politicians decide enough is enough.

Midget?

I don't think sport should receive the money bet on sport. I don't think racing should get it either. I do think they are entitled to a fee for use of information (in the same way NSW Racing tested that right in Australia and won there). But if the government isn't going to dramatically change what it does with that revenue, then NZ sport would be as deserving of surplus revenues from sports betting as NZ racing is deserving of surplus revenues from racing betting. I wouldn't be concerned about the %'s changing to sport. I'd be more concerned about significant changes in the Racing Act resulting in a complete change in the way racing is funded based on the insignificance racing is now in NZ society and its importance (read lack of), to the economy. That is what governments concern themselves with. And what was once, is no longer the case.

Unlike you, most people don't feel the need to pretend to be intelligent. That is best left for you.