Danny Boy

Totally agree. A big thanks to Jason for making the effort in giving sectional times during the commentary -much appreciated .

Dexter owns the get out of jail free card in NZ Harness Racing and do not forget that. Some of the stuff at Forbury in particular he has walked away from scot- free should make the RIU and JCA wear a Red Nose as a compulsory uniform addition. What about the punters and other owners in this race ? Alpha Rock wins the race by a nose, the driver has gained an unfair advantage over other drivers in the race by breaking this stupid whip law and he still holds the race? If a driver gains an unfair advantage over others in the race , why are the placings not changed? If you watch Harness racing now ,you will see some drivers stop driving the horse out when they are capable of running in a dividend bearing placing. Harness Racing deserves all it gets with declining turnovers when it treats owners and punters in this fashion.

Well there must be a large percentage of fools in Australia as a recent Informant article said " most states Breeders Owners Trainers and Reinspersons Associations have agreed that a complete whip ban is unrealistic and unsafe and was poorly thought out." An interesting point of the article is states can self regulate and choose not to abide on HRA mandates which is most likely to happen on banning whips. Incidentally where do you stand on banning the whip in the Thoroughbred code ? Are there also a lot of fools in the galloping world? I do not detect the same level of enthusiasm from yourself and others on the subject of banning whips on the Gallops forum. I do look forward to watching the next Melbourne Cup with riders without whips - The reaction from the millions watching would be interesting too. I

Well there must be a large percentage of fools in Australia as a recent Informant article said " most states Breeders Owners Trainers and Reinspersons Associations have agreed that a complete whip ban is unrealistic and unsafe and was poorly thought out." An interesting point of the article is states can self regulate and choose not to abide on HRA mandates which is most likely to happen on banning whips. Incidentally where do you stand on banning the whip in the Thoroughbred code ? Are there also a lot of fools in the galloping world? I do not detect the same level of enthusiasm from yourself and others on the subject of banning whips on the Gallops forum. I do look forward to watching the next Melbourne Cup with riders without whips - The reaction from the millions watching would be interesting too. I

I completely agree. There is one driver I can think of who if he wacked a horse 9-10 times , I would consider that animal cruelty. He knows that and does not do it, but under this stupid new rule which takes no account of the severity of the hits being inflicted ,he could abuse a horse and get away with it. The new rule was a HRNZ knee jerk reaction to Harness Racing Australia banning of the whip and as far as horses welfare is concerned, is pc nonsense. The old rule was fine and the ability to punish a driver for whip overuse was there if it occurred.

At least Kim was doing her utmost to get a result for owners and punters. Contrast Kims drives with the drive on Audi Hare in race 9 at Forbury- There would seem to be reasons for the drive on this horse as the reintroduction of the whip was a gear change on this horse for this race and it did a truck load of work early. It did still merit a query from the stipes in charge which was not forthcoming. If you had backed Audi Hare , how would you feel watching the last 200 m of this race? This is the conundrum – we have the racing purist who loves horses and enjoys the racing for what it is and you have the punter who like to or not contributes in no small way to the finances of the racing industry and expects maximum effort from horse and driver to achieve a winning result. I would say most punters who backed Audi Hare would be livid and say the race and harness racing is rigged. This was mentioned as a common perception by people in another thread here recently and one I hear all the time . Serious punters will desert horse racing in droves if you take the whip away and it looks like drivers are not trying in the last 200 m of a race by playing statues. If you take the whip away from racing, you had better find another way to fund it.

Is this a quote from " Thoughts of a Narcissist " ? Harness Racing should be a Democracy not a Dictatorship. The current Harness Racing modus operandi seems to be I will make the decision, get a few lackeys to run around the country having meetings to promote and justify it, and rubbish or ignore any opposition in the process. It should be where a rule change is as big as this one is, Go to all parties involved , consult them , take on board all opinions ,submissions and then and only then, make a decision based upon all the facts on the table involving all parties concerned. Then go back to your grassroots and find the best way of implenting the changes if required so everyone understands how it effects them and find the best way they can to implement them. Then implement the change, monitor the change, review the change and improve the change. The last line here needs urgent attention.

Alan Beck got 3 days back in November at Wyndham for not driving Don Sebastion out - RobbieClose / Bob Butt/ Terry Chmiel get 3 days for doing their utmost to win for owners and punters. Where is the justice in this ? This is absolute Bull*** This rule was sneaked in by HRNZ and should never have been bought in without consultation and approval by all licence holders. A telephone conference amongst reps does not cut it for something as important as this - it should have gone back to all members for votes and submissions. It is now time it is reviewed - and just because the Australians are banning whips this does not mean NZ has to follow like a brainless mob of sheep.

I thoroughly agree with you Brodie. People love champions and one of the big downfalls in NZ racing is a lack of them, lack of desire to keep them in NZ , and lack of promotion of them. It is what used to get people to actually attend a race meeting just to see a horse. The worst possible turnoff for someone new to racing is to see a horse who is perceived as a champion then being treated like a piece of meat, sent offshore to run against horses he would have donkey licked in his heyday and then ends up in the knackers yard. People do not like to see their hero's treated like this and feel betrayed. How do you think the Australian public would react to Winx or Black Caviar being treated like this ? The papers would have a field day .Young Quinn and Cardigan Bay were both returned to NZ after they had raced with distinction against the best horses there. This is a horse who many people have admired for his racing ability and he deserves a better fate particularly after he has returned his owners over 2 million dollars. Incidentally I do not think he was in the champion class for some of the reasons 2 Piper has outlined and have my own reservations about him. Sure the owners can do whatever they like but it shows up the mercenary side of racing in a sport which promotes itself to newcomers as making horses appear as if they are well looked after and owners and trainers want the best outcome for them.

I think this is part of the problem. Newspapers and TV news media are having trouble producing content that people want , hence the move to Social media. Mainstream media are mostly producing articles for people with the attention span of a bowel of jelly. The day of the investigative journalist has gone. There has to be a mix of articles to appeal to a wider audience of readers/viewers featuring not only the All Stars ( who rightly deserve top billing ) ,but also the other people in the industry. The Tutoko Kid story was a good example of that.

Are you implying Cobalt is acceptable and should be legalised ? Trainers who apply cobalt to horses should be let off without penalty? Here are some recent articles from the SMH and some quotes which are interesting http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/new-cobalt-study-raises-fresh-welfare-concerns-for-horses-and-jockeys-20161113-gsoa39.htm http://www.smh.com.au/sport/horseracing/racing-cobalt-threshold-now-in-line-with-the-world-20160707-gq0ui4.html What do you think would happen to racing in New Zealand if welfare groups in NZ are made aware of horses trainers administering cobalt and the Racing Industry and RIU are turning a blind eye to it ? Question- Is there any one on the Race Cafe site who can verify that the last quote is correct ? - It seems to make a lie of some of the excuses being passed around for positive tests to cobalt.

Of course it was . Cran is connected and there is no way that Harness Racing's hierarchy in NZ will not have this swept under the carpet. They will be on the blower now to Godber and the RIU reading out of the official excuse book and getting the wet bus tickets ready. Circle the wagons boys and send in the cows ! ( It worked for O'Sullivan ) Bute - Caffeine and now cobalt - They shoot horses don't they ?

Who is responsible for the present service in Canterbury for getting the Trials and Workouts videos on the HRNZ website ? Today is one of the biggest days on the calendar and the Trials Videos from Ashburton on 20th December are still not up on the HRNZ site for viewing. There were 20 heats in these trials which always provide some winners over the coming week and there are quite a few horses who attended these trials racing at Westport and Ashburton today. This is not a one off and has been going on for several months with the Canterbury trials and workouts appearing on the website a week later now so I hope someone's getting a $. Invercargill ( take a bow ) the trials from the 22nd December are on the HRNZ website so it's good to see that the Trackside staff in Southland doing their best for the local industry. Why do Trackside bother screening them a week later after the races have taken place? Lets kick some more turnover into touch shall we - it is easier to do a moan about leakage and why punters are betting overseas. Have a good day on the punt everyone.