tasman man

Haha.....two photos from 1965 of successful South Island folk/horses .
Recent posts on RACECAFE are indicating that South Island having some sort of resurgence in NZ racing when in fact the reverse is true........small town Syndrome coming thru.
Back when above photos taken.....John [not Jim] Dowling was leading apprentice in NZ then one of topNZ jockeys.
DP Wilson considered one of NZ's top and most astute trainers.
And Palisade ,one of NZ's best stayers.
This trio were among the best when the South Island enjoyed a lot of success.
Trainers.......Rex Cochrane and Ted Winsloe and Hec Anderton and Bill Hillis among the top trainers.Bill Hazlett a top owner.
Jockeys.....Bob Skelton tops before he too drifted north !
Stayers.....Palisade.....overshadowed by deeds of Great Sensation, Baghdad Note and a host of others
Then the Sanders , O'Sullivans ,Verners etc took over.
The vibrant training centres of Gore ,Wingatui ,Washdyke  mere shadows of their former selves.
The Collets , Peter Williams ,the Richards' all gone north.
THe Pitmans , Couplands ,BJAnderton and CWJohnson just keep the South hanging on.
At least Cup week at Riccarton still a highpoint , clinging to the apron strings of Southern domination of Harness !
ps...I been a South Islander for nearly 90% of my life !
Its sad !

One could wonder why more folk don't take a punt with some of these horses , but I guess any inexpensive purchase price is soon forgotten once the cost of housing,caring and preparing a horse becomes a reality.
Even those who prepare horses for resale must baulk at the ever rising costs especially of labour !.
With the costs increasing again ,the resilience of the NZ owner regularly happy to race for $10k total stake has to be marvelled at !

Billy Slater.......a smooth transition from a great SOO player to a fantastic Queensland SOO Coach......shrewd selector and tactician.
Already talk of him being the GOAT....a big call that ahead of the incumbents Wayne Bennett and Cam Smith.
Maybe in time he will be , but this year he had massive help from the pathetic NSW outfit.
What a sad bunch of losers ,yet many of the commentators kept talking them up ,saying they could come back from 20 points down , haha ie score over 20 points in less than 12 minutes.
Pathetic effort NSW...yet again !
Ennis was almost weeping after the game ,  almost speechless which is odd for him !

Harness followers typically blame everyone else for their woes !
When I last checked Harness was the code that was receiving more than it actually deserved through betting numbers.
Harness turnover slumped some 30 % odd , in recent years ,while greyhound turnover was growing and they were being rewarded with more meetings as a result.
Of course the Doggies now under real pressure to continue ,which should help Harness but does it ?
This weeks Stakes are for a Group 1 night with $30k and $50k races so not your normal meeting or stakes. 
Pre -covid times both Domestic turnover and GBR share was Gallops 54% , Harness 27%,Doggies 19%
But overseas betting was Gallops 65% ,Harness 12% , and Doggies 23%.....this explained by the huge number of races imported.
Meanwhile Code Funding was approx Gallops 54% ,  Harness 30 % and Doggies 16%.
A vagary here is that the doggies cost to operate the same as harness ,so harness got nearly 3 x for Stakes.
Over the last 10 years Harness races have decreased every year ...over 2740 domestic in 2013 , 2469 in 2019
The Doggies increased from 5288 in 2013 to 5836 in 2019......they 4933 last year so now on decline too and under threat of extinction..
But total Imported races went from 58141 in 2013 to over 80000 in recent years. Gallops and doggies well ahead here cf Harness.
So doggies not advantaged on Code Funding , but hey , don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Some say I work for TAB , but anyone can have a look at the published Reports online !
 

Harness followers typically blame everyone else for their woes !
When I last checked Harness was the code that was receiving more than it actually deserved through betting numbers.
Harness turnover slumped some 30 % odd , in recent years ,while greyhound turnover was growing and they were being rewarded with more meetings as a result.
Of course the Doggies now under real pressure to continue ,which should help Harness but does it ?
This weeks Stakes are for a Group 1 night with $30k and $50k races so not your normal meeting or stakes. 
Pre -covid times both Domestic turnover and GBR share was Gallops 54% , Harness 27%,Doggies 19%
But overseas betting was Gallops 65% ,Harness 12% , and Doggies 23%.....this explained by the huge number of races imported.
Meanwhile Code Funding was approx Gallops 54% ,  Harness 30 % and Doggies 16%.
A vagary here is that the doggies cost to operate the same as harness ,so harness got nearly 3 x for Stakes.
Over the last 10 years Harness races have decreased every year ...over 2740 domestic in 2013 , 2469 in 2019
The Doggies increased from 5288 in 2013 to 5836 in 2019......they 4933 last year so now on decline too and under threat of extinction..
But total Imported races went from 58141 in 2013 to over 80000 in recent years. Gallops and doggies well ahead here cf Harness.
So doggies not advantaged on Code Funding , but hey , don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Some say I work for TAB , but anyone can have a look at the published Reports online !
 

Harness followers typically blame everyone else for their woes !
When I last checked Harness was the code that was receiving more than it actually deserved through betting numbers.
Harness turnover slumped some 30 % odd , in recent years ,while greyhound turnover was growing and they were being rewarded with more meetings as a result.
Of course the Doggies now under real pressure to continue ,which should help Harness but does it ?
This weeks Stakes are for a Group 1 night with $30k and $50k races so not your normal meeting or stakes. 
Pre -covid times both Domestic turnover and GBR share was Gallops 54% , Harness 27%,Doggies 19%
But overseas betting was Gallops 65% ,Harness 12% , and Doggies 23%.....this explained by the huge number of races imported.
Meanwhile Code Funding was approx Gallops 54% ,  Harness 30 % and Doggies 16%.
A vagary here is that the doggies cost to operate the same as harness ,so harness got nearly 3 x for Stakes.
Over the last 10 years Harness races have decreased every year ...over 2740 domestic in 2013 , 2469 in 2019
The Doggies increased from 5288 in 2013 to 5836 in 2019......they 4933 last year so now on decline too and under threat of extinction..
But total Imported races went from 58141 in 2013 to over 80000 in recent years. Gallops and doggies well ahead here cf Harness.
So doggies not advantaged on Code Funding , but hey , don't let the facts get in the way of a good story.
Some say I work for TAB , but anyone can have a look at the published Reports online !
 

Showgates dam Minglow was by Globe of Light - Minga.
Minga was Limond - Motley.
Motley was Absurd - Pennon.
Pennon was Coriander - Eulogy.
Gordon bought Minglow in 1957 at Trentham sales , she won 8 races from 800 to 1600m.
In 1958 Gordon bought Subtrist at Trentham.
She traced back to a mare by Absurd from Eulogy.
She left several good horses , the best being Middy [ by Messmate] who won over 20 races incl NZ Cup .

A possible suggestion would be you contact him and get him to send you his picks and any other info you require.
Agree on a price to pay for this info...Win / win .
 

Great question , I agree !

I explained recently I was overseas ...often out of touch in North Sea etc.
Currently i in Germany and Austria.
I note my content on notice ! Haha .
You assume I been on here , well maybe because my computer is being shared for emails etc then some of the small group are clicking on the racecafe posts that appear on my email.
That is something that happened in recent times , and I do not want that !
Maybe it is you who has got confused....think about it....Did you ever ask anyone on RC or by PM if they interested in doing some articles.
You may have messaged me by mistake and not realised. I remember it well.
This would be a good thing , it would show you were showing initiative and trying to stay more current and relevant.
Let's face it , not much has changed on here for sometime !
Just the same 65+ old farts being negaholics...it wears people down and really little on Thoroughbreds and Harness !
I'm quite happy to be booted off RACECAFE.......it's a badge of honour !
I never met you and would not recognise you .......I been a member here for some years and paid a subscription for a while etc etc , but I very pleased to be scubbed off . Feels great !

How is he able to still post on RACE CAFE ? 🤣🙏
 

Thanks TM.
You raise many issues all reflecting may I suggest, lack of Management and direction, or is that too simple.
Whilst NSW and Victoria are booming, NZ has lost its slipper, the clock has ticked past midnight and the handsome prince left at 10pm to find another neverneverland. The ball is over.
TM did you read the article on Greyhound Racing in the Press yesterday, bad look all round and the learned Judge hands down on the Inca debacle in late September ... yep we are on a roll.
TM we need more Cantabs in the ABs to set the ship right, influence who you can please. I would appreciate that.
Cheers
Tom
 

I agree Pam is a voice that is grass roots and at the coalface...not BS from corporate office in downtown wherever...Tasman Man ...remember there is always a reason for things changing either for the good or for the worse...a few years back there was so many more horses in work...wonder why that is...maybe you can enlighten us as you seem to know where things have gone downhill...now tell us why....could it be because it simply is not worth having them in work now as prizemoney is shyte and programming is shyte..why would anyone have a jumper in the SI there is virtually no jumping races there...like I say you seem to have a very one sided view...does NZTR employ you in some capacity???

TM, I personally admire Pam as she speaks her mind from the actual grass roots of day to day involvement at the coal face. Her comments I invariably find have value.
Sure, she ain't an apologist and on that alone I admire her input. 
Maybe, just maybe, if we didn't have the room so full of apologists and had more Pam's throwing down the challenge to leadership then possibly NZ Racing wouldn't be in the strife it is in.
IMHO we need more Pam's speaking up, as the free ride for *the leadership* has gone on for too long.
Think about it TM, there just may be value here if we had a room full of Pam's, *battling away at the coalface*, rather than full of apologists

Tasman man, your "don't bite the hand that feeds you" message is an underlying theme in much corporate bullying often used to shut down dissent and constructive critique.
As for comparing RV with NZ racing, I agree they are not really comparable though I would say not for the reasons you state. As I initially began to say and WD points out further, the two are run on entirely different business models. One works, the other doesn't.

What's negative about that Tassie man? A bit harsh. I think you'll find that Pam is a strong supporter of the AWT for both training and trial purposes and for racing horses that suit it. In fact, she has trained a couple of winners for me on it in the first season at the CJC one. The difference between here and Oz on refurbishing/upgrading grass tracks is that RV has taken a fair portion of their payout from betting and allocated it for that purpose. Here, they have not done so for decades, wasting it all on stakes. You can't have it both ways but I think you'll also find that like in Vic, most trainers here would prefer more and better grass tracks for racing in winter even though they may support the AWTs for that as a next best option. You will note in that article that even if Pakenham is reverted to grass, they will put in a synthetic training track. Riccarton trainers in particular have told me that they don't know how they would have got horses worked much of this last winter without it.

Fancy that, even JJ Flash complimented me on a positive view of our AWT.
You must have forgotten that.. or perhaps it didn't suit your narrative.

I have had the pleasure of meeting Pam and can report that she is one of the more intelligent people I have met in racing, and a deep thinker about all aspects of the industry with more knowledge and experience than most. We are very lucky that someone with her insight contributes on these forums. There is nothing wrong with constructive criticism.

With our numbers in Cambridge, the track has been an absolute blessing once again through this winter period.
The set up was originally for 200 horses to be trained there, and we are now up to 1000 to utilise this fantastic complex.
Our grass surfaces are still there to be utilised throughout the year at a set fee over and above the monthly track fee.
Trainers utilise that with their better horses heading into the Spring, and the use being at their own discretion.
We have numerous other tracks to work on, and every trainer has their own theory on what surface suits their own needs, but the AW surface certainly has its avid followers.
 

You looking at the negative side  ONLY !
Seems enough positives there re trackwork and jumpouts etc  to build on their usefulness.
Only been in  less than 15 months in NZ and most of NZ top trainers support them .
RV has the luxury of being able to spend significantly to upgrade their grass surfaces which a majority of participants prefer ...this was always obvious..poor old NZ was technically bankrupt ,unable to pay their monthly creditors when Winston stepped in and gifted these tracks. 
They were never going to be a 'silver bullet ' but the local trainers should be at least be seen to be supporting them. The number of meetings in NZ to date has not been great and as the Messara Report emphasised NZ did not have one decent track....at the time of report he said all needed significant work !
I attended the first meeting at Cambridge and quite surprised at the venomous negative comments made by a few people close to the industry....the very people they were introduced to help.
Similar to Jumps racing in NZ [and South]. Many close to the industry want the races put on but make no attempt to produce horses to race in them.
I've been told that you are a battling trainer who spends far too much time  spreading negativity about the industry , don't know you from a bar of soap but if true I'd wonder why ? 

Good to get out a reminder of the big racedays for the season. 
Certainly this advert has jolted me into action and I booked a few flights , getting some new threads and joined a gym so I looking good when all the well dressed females turn up at the track !
Now we just need some horses with a bit of profile and good crowds and good betting etc !
Looking forward to those days !
Thanks for the reminder.
Good to see some positive advertising !

Oh dear.....cheer up boss !
Grass roots enjoys many of the best summer days over Xmas etc and with Summer racing promotions etc these have been given a boost in recent times including extra NZTR help and funding !
 

Good to get out a reminder of the big racedays for the season. 
Certainly this advert has jolted me into action and I booked a few flights , getting some new threads and joined a gym so I looking good when all the well dressed females turn up at the track !
Now we just need some horses with a bit of profile and good crowds and good betting etc !
Looking forward to those days !
Thanks for the reminder.
Good to see some positive advertising !

Good to get out a reminder of the big racedays for the season. 
Certainly this advert has jolted me into action and I booked a few flights , getting some new threads and joined a gym so I looking good when all the well dressed females turn up at the track !
Now we just need some horses with a bit of profile and good crowds and good betting etc !
Looking forward to those days !
Thanks for the reminder.
Good to see some positive advertising !

Devastating and tragic.....so sad .....RIP Taiki !