tasman man

Many getting ready for upcoming Cambridge meetings ! Good night out......free parking, free entry , free racebook, free water , free Sky TV to watch rugby in comfortable surroundings. 4 x top NZ pacers burning up the track in 2.38 for 2200m....55 sec last half ! Oh , the bus ride there and home was free too. Spoke to one winning connections , their horse SOLD and booked to go to Australia ASAP ! Usual story ....100 of us enjoyed it !

Geez Mikie.....I thought I'd signed off with you ? The issues leading to the CRISIS have been around for several years , and the shortage of horses has really escalated in recent years and has been discussed on here dozens of times. Thats the racing side of things which have badly affected the Club as the Development fiasco took a lot of the Clubs time. In that time the Interdoms were held by the ATC and many of the visiting Australians commented on the amazing facility close to the City centre. Since then Covid hit and the problems deepened , the cash flow dried up and racing enthusiasm took a further hit. I mention Covid ,everyone in NZ suffered , but Auckland more so cos of the extended lockdowns. My Tasman connections largely had a good old party much of this period and Harness down south did well , probably better than before. The heart and soul of Northern Harness ,previously in decay is now worse off. A new Board has new plans and several key Industry players are hopeful that the current bank loan and cash flows in place can enable survival and progress into the future. I discuss this subject often with club members , sponsors and locals who actually love the club and see it as part of their lives ! My views on the future vary to a lot of them and I am not going to involve myself in debate with you over what I think. I''ll happily discuss any matter I have experience in or are involved in the decision making in.......hence with ATC Financials I suggest you talk to board or President. Most are into Racing at serious level. Harness Racing pretty much controlled from Canterbury so I'm sure they aware the ATC in crisis and not the force it once was when it established itself as a leading club , deserving of hosting and funding for Group racing , throughout all 12 months on calendar. You Mikie have hardly been seen nor heard from and now you smell a carcass , you coming on here to prove how clever you are. I doubt you have ever lived outside of Blenheim for whole life , you need to get out and about more ! It can be quite a boring place where very little happens ! Go the Makos !

Yep...thats why it is CRISIS ! And getting worse...this week only 6 races and they canned the FFA which only had 4 x noms for open class horses ! The Club and HRNZ will need to decide whether to let it slide away or pour some money into it to save jobs/careers ! It's a great facility but if there's not enough horses ?? And looking at the 'great' money Aussies are willing to pay for our horses , exports will continue to soar !

OK.......it appears that we still both put our pants on the same way. This thread 'Crisis' started and I added a bit of Info I had from the ATC President/Board to update the latest situation. Only the Board knows the business plan to try and pursue the optimistic Strategies mentioned so if you have any real Interest in it you will need to ask them. You do seem bitter Mikie. Maybe you feel calling me a pissed , thick idiot who operates in underhand manner is totally deserved. The next time the Tasman Makos play I'll look out for you for a chat .

Now Mikie you are resorting to some low blows to discredit me. Sure have owned 2% of a few horses so what your point.......have actually owned 10% of many ,many more and over 20% of several . So what ? I've been emailed by a couple of people and encouraged to 'discredit' you on here but not my style ! You obviously raised with a bitter resentment about the way dates and the way the Industry run has been seen as 'unhealthy' which is surprising since your small area has often had representation in the National administration.

Not one of your better posts Mikie ........again trying to hurt my feelings with personal abuse ! Playing the man rather than the ball ......and then referring to rugby league...Australian as well ! WTF ? Of course I understand ATC 's turnover in recent times has dropped off alarmingly ....I'm a member of that particular Club. But you with your superior knowledge of the Harness Industry as a Owner,Trainer Driver , Club and race Secretary should know more precise figures. Why the need to have a rough guess ? Explain again how $600 k turnover at a meeting is a positive for the Industry.....what is the net betting margin on that ....and what about 'turnover related expenses' which are part of the TAB ? Some approx numbers please , not rough guesses. You are an Accountant of sorts I believe ! Pissed , thick , ....... are you trying to really hurt my feelings ? Are you trying to convince readers that a club that races once ,twice or 3 times a year on mainly plum dates contributes more to the Industry that those that race 40 plus times ?

Picks Riccarton R$....1 , 2 Riccarton R8.....5 , 13 Tauranga R6....6 , 7 BB Tauranga R7.....2 , 3 Rosehill R2......2 , 9 Rosehill R3......4 , 13 Rosehill R4.......10 , 11 Rosehill R5......3 , 10 Rosehill R6......11 , 14 Rosehill R7.......3 , 11 Rosehill R8.......1 , 2 BB Mornington R7......5 , 11 Thanks

Picks Tauranga R1 #1 Saint Bathans Tauranga R6 #1 Two Illicit Thanks

Not emergencies as such after field announced as slot holder needs to contract with horses owner but if a horse there at moment went amiss before final field then owners would go after a replacement to take their slot !

????????? You pays your money and you take your chances ! You can't sign up for three years then say , "Oh I don't like the choices of horse available"

Come on Mikie you just trying to hurt my feelings telling me I must be pissed etc , that I have no idea ! I know you know better than anyone that many clubs don't pay their way ,as you were often called in to help clubs with a bit of creative accounting and outside funding. Maybe you were the fairy.......the big clubs have over the years used their fine facilities to grow the Industry while others have let things decline. The grass tracks get most of the best holiday dates between mid December and mid January hence most attract over $1 mill turnover ,as do some on Sundays during the summer months . But it ain't sustainable ...few race between April and October ....while the big tracks do $1.5 mil combined on a bad Friday night ,with less Turnover related expenses. Very roughly ,the grass tracks that do $1 mil - $1.5 mill on their two days over the Xmas or on a summer Sunday would earn about 12-13% Net betting revenue for the TAB pool before TRE and any TAB fixed charge ,which doesn't leave much over once the stakes of up to $140k as some have 11 -12 races. Cup day at Addington does close to $6 mil for day and the TAB double that on the day ! ATC have been in a real lull these past few years ,we know that ,but before that they pulled their weight and built an impressive facility suitable for Group racing and Interdoms ! I await your advice as to how these grass tracks which receive glowing kudos in comparison with our main ones actually pay their way.....and maybe explain why your track changed from the all-weather to grass track for their two big January meetings. I often noted how the Club was often applying to pokie trusts for big grants which suggests a struggle 'to pay their way'. Yes some are strong community assets so not all about the $$$. As to the Distribution which comes to the codes and clubs , yes it is from betting , then some get additional from Sires Stakes which is from Foal nominations ,plus monies from NZ racing shown overseas and other sundry income like Racing services charges , maybe income from advertising , Interest and a bit from Net Gaming income though this now mainly funds the RIU. But you know all this ...you probably the master of creative accounting . I just probably pissed !

A lot of racing folk bemoan the fact when administrators have little or no skin in the game. Particularly when they own no race horses or are breeders . So it a bit rich to pick on the fact that one is a minority shareholder in a couple of good ones who race at the level which is fast disappearing , to the detriment of the Industry IMO. Group races should rarely be canned , while races at the top level with only 5 starters will often attract more betting than the slugs racing plus add interest to quaddies etc ,attracting a good viewing and betting.

But is it constructive advice if it has a strain of criticism to it and it is widely repeated on a public social media site. I've watched a fair few Harness races and videos and form opinion of the various skills and traits of the participants. The lad in question here I see as bright , cheerful , popular participant who has handled the pressure of driving , even in Group races pretty well. Obviously he has great support from his family ,owners and others in the Industry. In general I'd say he is a real asset to attracting young folk to the industry and a credit to it. A star of the future ! If I felt peeved enough to criticise him I'd go to those close to him with my concerns and if I was concerned about his actions causing harm to others via accidents I would speak more directly and personally to those around him . The personal approach usually ensures direct actions/changes/improvements. The stipes and Industry heads are there to enforce rules etc. So if anyone has genuine concerns then I'd suggest a different approach , and step behind the veil of anonymity and state your name at least .

Colin Butler also had useful performers in Sevaerg , Killarney Miss and Copy My Past who raced at Manawatu at the same time as Blenheim trainers hit the meetings like a SAndstorm ! Neill , O'Briens, Hunter ,Shutkowski ,Hunter , Morrison, Weaver , Mounce, Heaton [?] are names that come mind. Mostly replaced by a House nowadays ! Manawatu racing underlines some of Handicaping's quirks ...a win there against lesser opposition gains the same rating points as a win at higher rated meeting. Then there is the constant issue of races not being like v like , the ratings range being too great. Then preferential drawers come in using ratings or sex. A horses becomes uncompetitive and then has to run around and lose points by finishing 5th[ ?] or further back...ie not trying to place. All this does an owners head in ...as you point out its largely unavoidable cos there is only so many races to win etc. The extra meetings in the South Island ,particularly on the grass give horses more opportunities to race...........two meetings in North a week would be preferable IF there were more horses . Would certainly give drivers more to do and maybe help some young trainers get more exposure.........but would NZ's betting $$$$ be able to sustain it. One 'idea' Ive thought about.........these lesser class days could have a sweepstake element to boost the stake ....Ownership is expensive now ,so why not make it even more expensive. Free racing not sustainable ! Few meetings in NZ pay their way......you often refer to the Grass tracks of South Island subsidising the big City tracks.....but do they ? Turnover of $1.mill - $1.2 is seen as a great result ....but is there much left over after 80% Dividends paid and say 10% Fixed overheads from base TAB. Then add dragging the outside broadcast van and staff around the country etc and how much left for the $120 k plus measily stakes paid out ! You good at numbers ...how can it work ? Always been obvious racing needs outside revenue to survive !

The late Colin Butler's horse was Charlemagne who did well at a few Jewels meetings early on then raced for 9 full seasons and won over $275k with 16 wins. Moment of Truth raced 11 full seasons for 29 wins and $270k. Danke had 300 starts in both Islands. Dr Luk Chin has a resilient trotter racking up the starts currently. Australia has a lot of these durable warhorses who , as you say , are able to find suitable races across different states.

Are you saying I should not believe everything I am told ? Do ATC people tell porkies ? Surely not....members and folk in high places would not tolerate it !

No piss taking , just paraphrasing the Presidents latest report. Call it smoke and mirrors , call it corporate gobbledegook call it what you like ....I'm just letting you know what the Club is hanging on to as its glimmer of hope ! Never mind the huge loss on Development ,the current overdraft ,the stripping back of staff etc this is the current thinking. We are now better off than we were previous .......the net Asset situation is better than before the recent disasters including Covid struck. I can't comment what I think because I may get 'caught' by the 'Code of Conduct' stuff that was bandied about. Handicapping is generally used as a scapegoat ,but as a small time owner my main issue is when horses are not allowed to race against similar class of horse , it seems silly that if you lucky to win then you then have to race to lose points or forced to sell overseas where they love our educated pre-made horses and will pay a good price for them because they have the betting might to give every horse a prolonged career of being competitive. Other gripe with owning is that the stakes increases over years nowhere near match the cost increases of ownership so owners need to accept that its an expensive hobby for most. What is your answer Mikie ? You saved a lot of Clubs financially over the years....you understand how both sides work. What ,if anything ,can be done to save the sport/Industry in the North ?

Canning Group 1 races ?????? Now you being silly Lloyd ...maybe incentivise more starters ,but can the race.......dumb ! When Jewels started in most of the races.....all starters received at least $5k which obviously helped travel etc. But by now I hear you should have received ,as a member of ATC , a very positive and comforting note from your President. Changes in the Board and Management a key to future success. Your club is in a strong financial position......Thru Valuations of sky rocketing land prices the Net asset position is massive ! Land sales are about to go thru and they now fighting to sign up to rental leases and offices too . Note....... I suggest you protect tour viewing room next to the birdcage ,before it becomes a hairdresser or medical centre ! The Clubs position is Strong....to reduce debt and trade profitably . On race night , people are coming back and having a great time ! Over 100 were there recently ! Yes there is a shortage of horses but this a NZ wide problem [ Is this a fact ?? ] Certainly is of higher rated / Open class horses. And the big FIX is planned to start ASAP.... * Breed more horses * Fix the broken Handicapping System * Help syndicators to get more owners involved * Incentives to attract more horses to Alex Park And the game changer...a Harness only TV channel ,dedicated to trots with winning tips and great interviews etc..5 hours on Friday nights ! It sounds Amazing , Bloody Brilliant ... Expect Bliss and Happiness from Alexandra Park .

This brilliant idea only been in place a few months so unlikely to change much in 5 minutes ! But the real issues, and I see/hear of little to change it is the severe shortage of horses in the North along with the continuing sale of the 'second tier' of horses to Overseas ! A small number of horses can win the bigger races to pay their way , a huge number of horses are simply slow plodders who prefer grass tracks and minor meetings , while the ones with the ability to compete at the highest level get an offer which is usually too good to refuse and keeps the battlers in the game ! And despite the fact that horses have changed birthdays and are now older than previous , connections seem reluctant to race horses as 2 year olds. Does NZ Harness even need to have 'big' races in the North.......why not just have them all in South Island. Gallops nearly does that now in reverse with Group 1 +2 races and Jumping ! I could see you living in Canterbury Lloyd.... 2 or 3 meetings nearby most weeks , cheaper petrol and prices in general and more disposable income to spend, no Warriors to worry about and a winning rugby team to support. You would love it !!!!

RIP Alex Goryl Owned and trained some handy trotters. Silverstream and Meander in Eden come to mind. Also Meander with Earl and Alexander Fredo others that come to mind.

Agree almost entirely with you ,though slipping Jimmy Tomkinson in there maybe a bit of bias ,as he more a 'boutique' trainer. I doubt if any trainer in NZ has been handed such an artillery of horse power , buying power and great administration and organised ,dedicated staff as JR. He went in when the stable was clearly in the top 2 x stables in NZ so had a good start.And clearly taken them to next level. Of course ,since it all under his name the Otago bred lad has shown what can be done if you get out of bed early . Since training alone his Stable has travelled extensively and gone for and achieved domination in most of NZ's major races. Impressive. In NZ Harness the Purdon empire has ruled for much longer at dominating big races in NZ and throughout Australia too. The CD has produced some good trainers over the years...Syd Brown , Eric Ropiha , Noel Eales , Brian Deacon as well as Baker who was mentioned earlier. Further south , Cochrane and Winsloe won NZ Premierships in days when 50 wins was enough then there was DPWilson , AEDidham, HAAnderton and WJHillis who won many of NZ's big races at different times and certainly kept the big Northern stables on their toes !

Picks Trentham R4........4 Trentham R5........4 Trentham R6.......2 Trentham R7.......11 Trentham R8.......1 Rosehill R6.......1 Rosehill R7.......8 Rosehill R8........2 Rosehill R9.......8 Flemington R6.......2 Flemington R7.......10 Flemington R8.......4 Thanks

Maybe time to move on........understandably they were under pressure from the codes to maintain or increase the distributions. Hence they started paying out more than they actually earned hence their equity/reserves were minimal. Hence when it time to refresh/upgrade their crucial betting platform they had to borrow the money ,so were unable to pay their creditors. An upgrade was felt necessary as they were providing some 2,000 options to bet on each day when their Aussie competition offered over 20,000 or was it 200,000 daily. It appears that this 'investment ' plus cuts in other costs and improved controls along with duty savings etc has seen better results/profits. In addition $20 million was spent on upgrading Trackside equipment including modernising the 4 x Outside Broadcast vans which handle all the Live broadcasts. But paying out more money than you earn is real risky business practice ,especially if you hoping on tax/duty relief from the Govt . Hence the Codes now taking more responsibilty to build up some reserves and putting more expectations on Clubs to run their clubs to a good standard and help themselves. And its unlucky that all of us who could do much better at running NZ Racing than those employed , are doing other jobs. Bad luck indeed !

Exactly.....hence I for one hardly notice them. But they provide a basic service of filling in gaps and coordinating and introducing whats next up with any changes or last minute possibly important information. Yet posters on here seem to get mesmerised by every word some of them speak. Overall IMO they add something to the basic broadcasting package......not a job I'd wish on anyone.......these negative opinions could be directed at at most live sports events. Racing is presenting some stuff that is good viewing on video thats freely available.... the video on Verry Eleegant's daily life , Pro-cam on winning Harness drives , Nowell's brief chat with jockeys post-race , NZTR jockey room chats etc all items I enjoyed past week but others may hate these ! Racing overall is quite boring , thus finding it hard to attract new ,young customers....horses running around in a circle once every 35 minutes , plus 85% of Kiwis think it corrupt !

Handicap races are not highly 'rated' in the scheme of things of Pattern racing. Its WFA then set weights then set weights and penalties then Handicaps. I read somewhere that Handicap races will not be promoted in their Group status , its only one way for them and thats down !