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Can anyone tell me... perhaps that Northern lover Irlikis... Why is Mangos down as the trainer of the South Coas Ardern? Give me a break. even a one-eyed northenerner like Irlakils must see this is bull dust.... WTF! Mangoes does not train South Coast Ardern. Fact, the horse has been trained for the past six months by Natalie Rasmussen. Since she has taken over the training the horse has grown a hand. He is stronger, swifter, sturdier, well educated and drive by the best in Australasia. Natalie has improved the horse lengths not Mango. Mr Mangos be a man and give the credit for training South Coast Ardern to where it is due... Natalie Rasmussen. Will you take the all the acclaim if he wins the Cup without acknowledging Nataliers part in the horse...? Shameful.

Whats your qualification then? Is it TOSH if you are not writing it yourself and bagging some-one's opinion and trying for insults? To spell it out for you ...........The Melbourne Cup winning trainer (who is based in NSW) has a Gold Coast base in QLD with 100 horses . Training done by correspondence .He doesn't see the horses. LIKEWISE Natalie and Mango would be Linked and talking about the training of South Coast Arden > >>> It does happen in this modern world.

Well I've been following harness for about 45 years, in fact all sorts of racing and I can honestly say I ain't ever seen a horse grow a hand yet, I'd like to see this hand this horse has grown.

My contributions to Tim, and what will hopefully be a great day at the races on December 9 Tim tells me he’s inviting a good few needy punters who’ve never enjoyed anything like this before …. Sunloon, you’re a fucking arsewipe most of the time but if you’re there you better come by for a drink seeing you put on a decent show here To the Cafers who’ve expressed a desire to participate ….can you connect directly with Tim please, or message me and I’ll send you his number It’s Ian Smith and Izzy Dagg now hosting I’m told, if that changes I’ll advise accordingly Remember the charity is BBM Foundation, so don’t be shy …get involved

Great part of the VE story from Love Racing https://loveracing.nz/News/34886/VerryElleeganttakesteenonrideofalifetime.aspx

I'd hate to think what the 'symbolism' tells him when he faces himself in the mirror every morning

It's widely known ,very obvious indeed, that Aussie stake money much higher. The Messara report highlighted NSW return in stakes to owners as about 50% while NZ a little over 20% [from memory !] However there are a number of factors which may be considered before entering Horse ownership......I doubt few would expect to make money from Ownership tho a Winx, Dundeel or Melody Belle is the dream. A story of two horses I part owned..... Both were purchased at Sales , both inexpensive purchases by new 'unproven' sires purchased by reputable ,good horsemen. One was in NZ ,one in Aussie and both raced for a few seasons [ 4 to 5 seasons ] and both won about 5 races from 40-50 starts. My aim was to have a horse in the Melbourne Cup. The NZ horse won a 1400 m as an autumn 2 yr old , won as a spring 3 yr old at 2200m ,ran in the Derby [well beaten] then raced a couple more seasons and I saw it race several times even tho I lived in South and it raced mainly in North . From memory it won about $50k [ not on website] It was raced by a few friends and I got to meet a number of Industry folk etc and generally it was a good experience....do the numbers though and like most experiences it cost a bit with travel etc etc. The one in Aussie won [from memory over $120k ]...it on website, but I think we sold it .It a bit hazy cos it was not a good experience. I never saw it race once and never saw it in flesh even though it trained at Flemington and raced at some of that city's tracks. I vaguely knew only one of the other owners and during the last year was constantly hassled by a couple of owners wanting to change trainers and repeatedly questioning every decision made around the horse.I was glad to be out of it ! I have since been in other horses in Aussie ,sometimes wondering if the horse still exists ,not knowing its fitness or much about it. To me ,seeing the horse race and maybe sometimes around its stable is an enjoyable part of ownership. At least PRea you are going in with 'friends'...I hope they remain friends and are good payers ! Don't feel sorry for me ...I've mainly had good experiences ,you have to be a good loser in Horse ownership....and bingo , I actually got to part own a horse who started in the Melbourne Cup. Nothing like Berri ,but I did get to sit next to Bart Cummings in the stand...I sat beside him ,shook his hand and said...Hi ,I'm from Tasman ,NZ ! I guess you had to be there !

Melbourne and Sydney are only very recently out of lockdown. Waller been in Sydney whole time. He had his usual stable rep lady at Flemington chatting to TV media. Jmac went down for Derby Day last Sat , but a Melbourne Jockey rode VE in the Cox Plate 3rd a couple of weeks ago.

Ahh I could be wrong Mike, but I am pretty sure I saw on the TV news where they said Mr Waller had to watch it from home, and yes believe it was covid issues, maybe someone else would know more.... Cheers Iraklis

Can I ask a question and I'd like a straight answer. Chris Waller was at Rosehill early morning on Wednesday talking to media somewhere, does that mean he didnt even get to Melbourne for the biggest win in his career? Or has covid stuffed that up?

Oh gawd where the hell is Zac for Bad To The Bone, sorry Mr De Fillipi but Zac is the Bone's mate and knows him thru and thru.....callin Barry P the Bone needs Zac!!!! bloody covid, it has alot to answer for grrrrrrr Cheers Iraklis

What a great job Brent and Natalie have done with this horse.!! A special Group 1 jewels win in the Winter over BadtotheBone, Laver, PembrookPlayboy, and CopyThat all in that race. Like the Cup come Tuesday . Will he do it again..? maybe As for the JANITOR bagging the trainer. I was at the gallops on Tuesday where Mr Waller won the Melbourne Cup. He also trained 3 winners at Eagle Farm . It's possible he has only 'Seen' these 3 winners a handful of times in the past..... , and very unlikely he ever did any 'Work' with them . No one says that is shameful disgrace ? Pretty poor form with all the covid restrictions on by the 'JANITOR' there. Mr Mangos would of done near hundreds of hours work with South Coast Arden , preparing him for these big races, driven it in many races himself, (probably even shod it at different times.) Should have Bucket loads of the credit IMO. Good luck Nat and Mango on Tuesday. and don't let Mark win the protest again with Self Assured lol.

Janitor dude, your entitled to your opinions, that said, just cos you don't like the situation of Brent havin to send the horse south to Nat (due to bein in covid lockdown up here in Auck's he would rather be there with the friken horse he trains) don't mean he's not entitled to you respecting that fact, and his name! if you have to resort to the childishness of name calling like you have, then I would suggest intelligence does have alot to do with it! yes Nat is doin the job but as she said on trackside the other day it is with the collaboration of Mango himself. Cheers Iraklis PS. Typos? yeh wateva ah suggest you up the size of the font....

The prejudice against N.Z.-bred stallions has been long-standing. Even saw a post here about "colonial-bred stallions" - a vomitable expression nowadays. With a closed gene pool, everybody can only mix the same ingredients. More expensive stallions were imported, especially from the 1990s on, but with no discernible improvement in results. You can find stallions in Australia that carry N.Z. blood-lines as they seem to have a greater belief in the local product. When you see Sunline, Winx and Verry Elleegant (sorry for the spelling!), you might wonder what happened to their brothers and nephews. Black Caviar, through her sire, could be included.

Just threw up a screen of her pedigree. Looks just what all the line-breeding textbooks told us to do. If this is what the breeders found to convince them to do that mating, it worked in spades and congratulations to them. You have bred a champion. The legacy of Eight Carat is truly epic if you are a believer.

I wasn't planning on going, but I'll pop into HQ for a chat sometime - we can discuss our mutual dislike for greenies, the Labour government and woke culture. At least we agree on that.

JUST HAVE A LOOK AT THE ODDS ON OFFER IN AUSTRALIA........... AND TAKE NOTE AT HOW PATHETIC OUR ODDS ARE MOST OF THE TIME.

This Clip is one worth watching and perhaps should be posted in the Jacinda Thread Also *shrugs... "its too good not to post" *winks Keep in mind the thinking behind ....the "whose Running the Gauntlet..& whose really running the Gauntlet" When you begin to see the established relationships of the past... it poses the question, how well orchestrated is this plan to STRIP NZ'ers OF THEIR RIGHTS!!?? Watch!! as this video may well go byebye

Yep that is exactly what they do. It's not a win multi plus a place multi.

Not sure about your fact as mentioned above. Sounds more like an opinion.......I too think Laver one of the toughest horses in NZ , he shows that regularly and did in the Jewels in June as well as recently A fact re Laver...he has won 6 races from 43 starts and $87 k ! And starts from unruly at stands so starts behind field. A fact re Bad to the Bone......he won 9 races from 39 starts and $240 k. He was poor the other day but I think having a new driver ,unfamiliar with his style was a huge disadvantage. Neither horses will be considered among the favs for Cup......there are 3 x strong candidates ,one of whom I expect to win ! Laver will be everyones roughie ! Over the years the odd 'roughie' has surprised by winning Cup. My father talked about Invicta as he was going to be scratched as lame and little form..My Dad travelled to the races with the owner....none in car backed it.I think Borana was rough..I lived overseas at time. but i do remember rank outsider Smooth Dominion running $1.90 winner Iraklis to half head ,and Anvils Star and Matthew Lee [MHouse] running places as rank outsiders. I'm sure there have been others. Another fact....if you line up at start ,you have a chance ! Good Luck Janitor...hope you clean up !

To perceive is to understand... Its not complicated *winks

Just to demonstrate time makes fools of us all, trainer Dan Skelton announced this morning SHAN BLUE will miss the King George and will be kept for the big spring festivals. It will be fascinating to see if they think of him as a Gold Cup performer - I think the Ryanair is his race at Cheltenham and perhaps the 4800m race at Aintree. Back to the immediate and the final declarations are through for Friday's opening card at the Breeders Cup meeting at Del Mar in California. It's very much the card for the juveniles. Juvenile Turf Sprint - 1000m A very strong European challenge with half the twelve strong field from Britain or Ireland. The problem for me is 1000m on firm ground round a bend won't be something most of the Europeans have encountered and against some useful Wesley Ward types, who will be in their element, it looks a tough ask. Of the Americans, TWILIGHT GLEAMING nearly made all in the Queen Mary at Ascot and that was a stiffer 1000m on a straight track - the six draw isn't ideal but most of the inside berths are taken by Europeans who don't jump as well as the Americans. Ward also saddles the unbeaten AVERLY JANE who was impressive at Keeneland against stable companion KAUFYMAKER though the latter has a much better draw. I think the best of the Europeans is ARMOR who ran very well in the Flying Childers at Doncaster but he's drawn wide as well. Juvenile Fillies Turf - 1600m A full field of 14 and four European challengers. MISE EN SCENE is drawn 13 so that's not much help while CACHET is held by HELLO YOU on Rockfel form - I prefer the latter and she has some claims based on her experience. MALAVATH is the French challenger and a Group 2 winner over 1200m last time - she wouldn't be the first French horse to take to American fast turf but the 12 draw puts me off. The locals don't look exceptional in all fairness and from the inside berth PIZZA MEMORIES has a second placing in a Canadian Group 1 which looks reasonable in the context of this renewal. Juvenile Turf - 1600m Five European raiders in the maximum 14 strong field. DUBAWI LEGEND brings the best form having run second in the Dewhurst but he's been given the coffin box at 14. I'm not saying he can't win this but it's not made his life any easier. Charlie Appleby saw his NATIVE TRAIL beat DUBAWI LEGEND at Newmarket and he runs two of his arguably lesser lights and they've got the inside draws. William Buick is on MODERN GAMES who was a convincing winner of a Group 3 at Newmarket last time and is on the upgrade while Frankie Dettori is on ALBAHR who has won his last six including a Canadian Group 1 last time. He looks to have experience of North American racing and that's invaluable. On a line through NATIVE TRAIL, GREAT MAX has a lot to do and GLOUNTHAUNE is another who was well beaten by NATIVE TRAIL two runs ago. I think the Appleby pair have real claims but DUBAWI LEGEND has the form if he can defy the draw. ALBAHR's experience of racing under North American conditions makes him the one for me.

In the aftermath of a thrilling MC, a moment just to reflect on the past weekend up here. Jump racing is now in charge though the turf flat season ends at Doncaster this Saturday. The big race was at Down Royal in Northern Ireland, the Champion Chase over 4800m on soft ground. Champion Chase: FRODON is one of the toughest battlers you'll ever see on a racecourse and he needed all his courage to see off GALVIN. There was the usual eulogising of the horse and his jockey after the race but to be honest I thought FRODON took plenty of liberties with the admittedly very soft Down Royal fences. Some of the jumps would have seen him on the deck at places like Sandown and Cheltenham but he was obviously prepared fit and ready for his debut and did it well. He will go to the King George which is the climax of his season as he's not a Gold Cup horse. GALVIN had the advantage of race fitness and came with every chance and this may be the best he'll be in such exalted company. If I held an ante post voucher on MINELLA INDO retaining the Gold Cup, I'd certainly not be ripping it up after this. Rachael Blackmore looked after him when he got tired and doubtless his campaign is being geared for March at Prestbury Park. This was a decent effort and he remains top of the pack for now. DELTA WORK just isn't the horse he was I fear which probably means he'll pop up at a big price at Leopardstown at Christmas and you'll hear my screams in Invercargill. On the same card, ENVOI ALLEN had a nice canter round to win by 22 lengths in the Grade 2 3900m chase - I imagine the Ryanair rather than the Gold Cup would be his target but I'd love to see him in the King George as well. At Wetherby, we saw a perhaps more impressive performance in the Grade 2 Charlie Hall Chase. Previous winner CYRNAME set the pace but was never given any peace by SHAN BLUE and the latter readily went on and swept into a twenty length lead before taking a heavy fall two out leaving FUSIL RAFFLES to pick up the pieces. SHAN BLUE was announced as a runner in the King George and on this evidence he's going to give FRODON plenty to think about especially if we get decent ground. The jumping is a concern and I wasn't convinced 4800m was his trip but he wasn't stopping and he had these (admittedly second tier) types cooked before falling. At Exeter today, we have the Grade 2 Haldon Gold Cup, the first serious race for the speed chasers over 3400m. GREANETEEN was a close fourth in the Champion Chase at Cheltenham before slamming ALTIOR at Sandown. He's deservedly top rated but has to give 17 lbs to HITMAN who was a useful novice last year for all his best form was over 4000m. Given the form of the stable, I've had a bet on GREANETEEN to stick his claim to a prominent position in the pecking order among the chasing speedballs.

Next comp round is Thursday (Oaks Day at Flemington). Only 5 races so hope everyone has a bit of spare time to study and then post their picks. Entry thread is already up on the site.

Competition is a wonderful thing. our lack thereof… not so much

A story of two horses I part own... Snapshot....first 8 starts for 6 wins and 2 2nds...one win is open class at Te Aroha....stakes won $NZ$78,000 Bermadez ...has raced 6 times for three wins...not yet open class...stakes won so far AUS$97,000 Snapshot hurt himself and now in a paddock....Bermadez racing in a AUS$500,000 race on Oaks day at Flemington

PRea, thank you for your contribution. Most owners watch their horse on the Tv so watching a runner at the likes of Benalla is no different. I think you meant Ballarat, not Bathurst. I must remind myself that one has the Eureka Stockade and the other, the most wonderful car race in the world. I hope Bathurst don't lose that car race just as we have lost the most wonderful steeplechase in the world. You have pointed out some salient facts. With our present racing administration our country's horse racing will only survive whilst people cannot comprehend the basic economic facts you have presented.

Ever see Ali (Clay) U.H.? Went on a drunken trip to Nola when he fought Spinx at the magnificent super dome. But I do remember the fight - that day we refrained from starting the drink too early. There were a lot of bouts on the card, and they were all Title bouts.