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Tell you what - there's a group of people that hang out on these sites and say that the racing game is dying. They bemoan everything new that comes, bag the shit out of people who are trying to add interest to the game and create new ways and initiatives for people to get involved. Largely they are bitter keyboard warriors. They make little to no contribution in most instances other than to sit back and moan and bitch about absolutely nothing. Yet, they are the same people that when a something like BGP comes along, look for the negatives in it. Bag the people behind it, through wild accusations around and can't see past the end of their own crooked and bent noses. Here's a new flash, it's because of people with mindsets like this that the industry is struggling in some corners. The negativity is ridiculous. Yes, there are things that can be done and things that need improved - show me a sector of life where there isn't some struggles. I joined Boys Get Paid back when there was less then 100 members. It was a group of lads who threw the odd tip around in the hope of making a quick buck. Largely it was pretty successful, there was some good heat and some big bets landed. Over the past two years I've sat back and watched that page morph into something quite remarkable. I grew up in a township of non racing people. I could reel off a list of about 50 people from my small town who are now frequent racing punters because of BGP - they got a taste, and they liked it. It's nontraditional in the sense that there is banter, noise and a new way of looking at punting - but you can't deny that it's a real positive for our industry. They're pumping money across the tote, not just on the big days but even days like today. This morning a tip was posted for a horse at Manawatu. In an hour that horse had moved from it's $31 quote into $11 and it's still dropping. There are countless examples of weights on money being placed on horses because of the BGP input. One person throws a tip up and you can almost guarantee that a good percentage of the wagering on that particular runner will be held by members of BGP. Luke Kemeys is a bloody genius. The foresight that man has and the ideas him and his mates have come up with for the future are exciting. The establishment of the foundation is only another positive step forward, they want to bring people back to the races, encourage the industry to be better and challenge those who have had it good for far too long. And they're doing it in a way which may just ensure that the missing generation of punters are slowly but surely returning to the game. How anyone can bemoan a request that will only be beneficial for the industry going forward is beyond me. Like anything, it's not yet perfect and it probably never will be. But it's heading in the right direction and being driven by a group of enthusiastic racing fans who have some pretty smart business acumen behind them. And from what I can see it's only going to get better.

He'll regret it, and it's a shame, he had natural talent, horses loved him, he loved them, and you can't fabricate that, or train for it, it's like IQ, you're born with it. Sure everyone goes through a learning curve, whatever job you are in, bad decisions, bad judgment, but that's how you get better. Very sad and I hope he reconsiders in the near future.

Totally agree Emotive, if everyone presented themselves with pride ie clean and pressed, does it matter at all if they wear tight pants or flares, long sleeves or short! Now if we could put as much effort into the condition and presentation of our dogs....

Trains the winners of first 5 races at Manawatu. Sticks driving them all thusfar but great chanes still to come. Wonder what those who don't.like trainers winning too many will have to say about this I have no issue and tip my hat off to.him as he is a great planner

Dundeels will go into orbit once that get over ground - has amazing stats already and much more to come - very exciting times ahead

Good on him.

Of course they are all about punting & while the hell should it not be? What do you mean its doomed to failure, in what possible way?. They are having a bloody great time, winning a few $ & entertaining thousands, what else do they have to do?. Rebates are designed to assist large investments that contribute to pool sizes (exotics mainly) whom over a period of time don't break even, its a reward for the contribution to enlarge the pools. Fixed odds win betting doesnt feature on the list. For this reason any bets they make unless large in the exotics should not qualify for rebates. I imagine they have been receiving something under an affiliates programme for a fair while already for new accounts etc, increase that % is the logical way to go if they want a bit more. Clubs are free to offer them drinks/feed freebies & the occasional betting voucher if they choose.

The group is call boys get paid, it is about the punt. Every other aspect that has come afterwards is an added bonus from the success from the initial idea of the punt minded group.

For trotters I say get rid of the tape, this is such a prehistoric way of starting, do lights laser anything but a bloody tape and don't give me the crap about educate your horse,( then lets all be on the unruly the whole 16 odd of them wouldn't that be fun to see ha ha ) horse don't go near the tape it bites but go to the races and you gotta get close if i was a horse Id say bugger off..

This thread has gone off on a tangent, I don't agree with BGP getting oncourse rebates from racing clubs, but like everyone else I welcome their involvement and initiative in all aspects of racing. Just to be clear, I think most on this thread would feel the same but for some reason it's gone off on a stop bagging BGP tangent which as intellectually limited as I am I have not thought at any time this thread was about.

Thanks Maria. Yes I actually suggested DD to John Messara after Dundeel won his maiden at Ellerslie. Service fee will be determined by the market. We are fairly conservative with our pricing as we only discount for multiple bookings. Fee will be set at Easter. Plenty of water to flow under the bridge before then. The attachment shows where Dundeel is at now compared to where Snitzel was at the same stage of his career.

What a stinky idea. Six First4s paying less than $100. That just won't do it for me.

Sandown Hillside Race 7 #12 Shamwow Trent and Natalie have a very talented filly on their hands. They thought enough of her to nominate for the Cox Plate last year. She’s won very impressively fresh up over 1200m and steps up to 1400m which will suit her perfectly. You’d expect her to be ridden cold again and saved for one last run at them down the long Hillside straight. Shes also nominated for The Vanity at Flemington on Saturday but you’d expect her to take the easier option tomorrow. Currently $3.80 Fixed Odds second favourite. Wouldn’t be surprised if she starts favourite tomorrow.

I read where another group of Kiwis are setting up a stallions syndicate ( Lib Patenga, Waikato Stud , Windsor Park and few other individuals). Bruce Perry bought a Brazen Beau yesterday in Sydney for A$500k to go with an I Am Invincible he bought at Karaka. Good luck to them !

Will be interested to see how Lilikoi goes at Te Aroha today. Nice trial recently.

Agree to a point with you JS. It is vital horses progress to their level of ability. The problem occurs when they progress to their level of inability. I'm all for horses rising through the grades but we need some system of identifying when when they have reached a level where they are competitive but not dominant and let them stay at that level. I don't think you and Tim need to disagree, you both raise valid points and they are not mutually exclusive.

Great read on HRNZ website, and nice to see his reference of AllStars (Mark & Nat) in a positive light 'I go in planning for these like Mark and Natalie plan for Cup Day' good on him, I particulary liked this 'There’s a great saying that I love and that is that you’re only limited by your imagination.“You shouldn’t fear losing, you should fear not trying hard enough.' woohoo!!! you goooo boy!!!....see Stables it aint all doom and gloom, and he aint the only one steppin up either, others will also (are about to) if they want to survive and are up for the challenge they will compete.... Cheers Iraklis

If he’s a lightweight he’s got plenty of time. When I look back at myself I can’t believe how inept, stupid and immature I really was. Thankfully I wasn’t in a high profile job (then) like he has been in, so with time, maturity, luck and good management he will be back as his ability to really earn is exceptional. Good luck Wiremu.

100 to one. Thank you for bringing that to our attention. I had read the NZ Herald this morning and thought that Trump would never get a crowd at El Paso. The article was, I have found, a great example of Trump Derangement Syndrome. Your video showed the huge crowd that could not get into the huge auditorium. Those journalists with Trump Derangement Syndrome; I have sympathy for them, just I have sympathy for those poor unfortunate individuals inflicted with Downes Syndrome and other dreadful afflictions. Those unfortunate people deserve our sympathy.

Then I would suggest it's a good time to purchase and more fool the buyers

Wins 7 races and runs second in the other 2 . Well done Mickey or is that not the right thing to say when someone dominates a meeting

Trump served it right up to the DemonRats today at the El Paso rally. Quoted so many of Q's sayings. This is the overflow crowd while Presidential candidate Beto O'rourke could''t attract 200 people https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author

I know a few TAB employees who commented calling out the incompetence of senior management. If the names get released you can guarantee more good people will be sent packing.

The DIA is acting on behalf of the Minister to review the NZ Racing Industry which also involves the NZRB with regards to its operations and performance and in doing so the DIA doesn't perform as it should by advising the public when they make submissions that their names might be made public until after all submissions are in. Following when submissions are all in the DIA say " The Department of Internal Affairs (the Department) has received an Official Information Act 1982 (the Act) request from Paul McBeth of BusinessDesk for the names of the people who made submissions on the Report.The Act requires the Department to release this information unless there are good reasons to withhold it'. Correct the Act does say the above but it also says which the DIA should have advised at the start as done below by another Government Department when requesting Submissions from the Public. Official Information Act 1982 We intend to publish all written submissions on the SSC website. Please note also that all submissions are subject to the Official Information Act 1982, and that your submission may therefore be the subject of a request. If you do not want your submission to be made public, please state this clearly, together with your reasons, and whether your objection relates to your whole submission or to a part or parts of it. Any personal information you supply in the course of making your submission will be used by us only in relation to the matters covered in this discussion paper. Please clearly indicate in your submission if you do not want your name to be included in any summary of submissions that we publish. The DIA failed in its Government regulated role to advise the public of a very important clause in the Official Information Act when advertising for submissions which fall under it. Conditions needed to be advised before not after the event. A bit like a Company asking for the public to provide suggestions on a new betting platform weeks after it is launched as to what they think needs to be implemented (I know crazy comparison as that would never happen.) Great isn't it you have an incompetent Organisation over seeing a review of another Incompetent Organisation. Hollywood wouldn't buy the script as no one would believe it.

It would do the clubs in the north a favour.betting relies on competivness. If you play me at tennis and u are a very good player and I'm not .no betting.if we are even stacks of betting. I bet u have had bets with mates on heaps of sport with friends oreach other. U don't have to be any good. Horse population is a pyramid.few at top. Few more as u go further down.vast majority at bottom. Do we dump them. They don't in USA or Australia. We had some legendary games of golf tennis ten pin bowling etc in auckland years ago. Huge money changed hands.some of those involved well known in racing game.stanley st on a Sunday.onebloke played with a cricket bat and took on all comers. He played in the wimbledon juniors. Standard not high but betting was.

They have missed a huge opportunity if not. Send all new accounts overseas then till they do, Sportsbet, Bet Easy, Ladbrokes will pay. Get all members to open accounts with all 3, BGP will have money coming out of their ears. Deposit bonuses for all accounts open, everyone wins.

No. The rationale of dropping the baseline lower and lower is totally flawed. You'll always have your worst horses and the aim has to be to encourage improvement in the quality of the product. To cater more and more to the worst of the worst is doing nobody any favours, especially the poor suckers being encouraged to keep paying the bills for horses that are too slow to pay their way, in the vain hope that they'll one day sink to the level of others who are equally slow.

Lets see who the smart racing club CEO's are.I would be offering more than just the odd rebate. Its what any business would call the "Multiplier" effect

In my opinion Tim you are 100% wrong about what the actual problem is, and how to fix it. The real problem is that there are not enough horses progressing through the grades. There are two parts to that statement - not enough horses and progressing through the grades. The answer is not to keep dropping the poor horses back, but to progress the better ones forward. In other words spread the ratings out, not clog them up. Everyone complained that the previous system clogged up the C0 and C1 races with good 2 and 3yo's to the point where an average horse couldn't win a race. Well now we have a system that has clogged the lower grades up even further with a massive percentage of horses rated between 40 and 50 - lower than a first starter! And you want to create even lower grades? To achieve what? Move the clog 10 or 20 points further south! No doubt your view of the current situation is somewhat biased towards the lower rated horses as that's mainly where you're racing, but for the good of the industry we need to be move the better horses up the ratings instead of catering to the lowest common denominator ie the struggling 40 raters, or before long they'll be all there is left to race as the better ones will all be sold overseas because there aren't enough of them left to make a race. Alexandra Park are already down to 5 and 6 horses field quire regularly. What next 3 horses fields to entertain the breeders looking down from the committee room? As for not enough horses, well that's a story for another time!

By all accounts the 3 AS runners have all trained on well since their last assignments. You need to also take into account that All U need is Faith missed a crucial lead up race.

I have read all of the above posts and given this matter considerable thought. Boys Get Paid must be welcomed to the course, any course. They should have their own area to boost the sense of camaraderie. I suggest that lounge at the top the public stand at Tauranga, Beecher's Brook lounge at Te Rapa and the top of the Ellerslie Stand. They are to get a rebate of 3.5% of all on-course turnover, in excess of $12,000 in THAT area on race day. The $12,000 threshold gets the club to recover its fixed expenses. The printouts from the TAB make the rebate calculation simple. Clubs hosting Boys Get Paid should keep their totes in those areas open, after the last race, until the demand for bets gets low. Once the Boys are phonged up on grog they will bet big. An eftpos machine handy could well pay for itself, because they will be seeking extra working capital at that time of the day. But do not charge them a fee to use the eftpos machine. That is the sort of thing that really irritates blokes with a few drinks on board. The 3.5% rebate will encourage the administrators of Boys Get Paid. The noise they created on Karaka night at Ellerslie was great. People who know they will spend a lot of time in a pine box so they must make the most of every moment on earth before they are interred. I have seen the TAB printout for a day that Boys Get Paid were set loose. Total on course turnover was $118k. Boys Get Paid's lounge accounted for $71k of that sum. They do give it a lick along. I will bore you with a story about a bloke who used to run Crown & Anchor nights for the local squash club's building fund. He instructed the croupiers that when a punter first came to the table they were to make a mistake in the change; give him three $5 notes for a tenner. Give him three $10 notes for a $20 note. It stuffed up the punters' brains and the squash club ended up getting the lot. Punters, like Boys Get Paid, are a weird lot, and they must be encouraged so that they have a whale of a lot of fun spending plenty. Easy bet sales people must all be female. They should wear low cut tops and display adequate cleavage. Flat chested sales people should wear a skirt that accentuates their lovely butt. Women with neither attribute should be operating the dishwashers, out the back. My comments may be considered cynical, but I have observed punters for more than half a century.

I play in a sports team with a dozen guys aged late 20s and early 30s. Approximately zero of them have any family connection to racing, nor any real knowledge of the industry. The extent of their racing involvement was easybets at the tavern over a few jugs. A couple of them got added to Boys Get Paid, had a few wins and are now hooked. Most of the team is on there and they live for the hot tips and all they talk about is the next Ellerslie race meeting they can attend or the Punters Club they can get in to. I'm a harness guy and have done absolutely nothing to foster their interest. But because of BGP, there are now 8-10 guys, all professionals with good income, and plenty of disposable, hooked on to the industry. This is only a small bunch of guys but I get the feeling it's a microcosm of the BGP movement and it's impact as well as future potential.

Stick to the topic? These plenty of claims flying around about people who run bgp on here without them been pulled up. I got called a tosser the other day or is it just selective people you call out

No they don't they have jumped on the bandwagon with them, but seriously you can't work out why?

Where is Nerula? What a great opportunity for the Owners Federation to finally show its teeth. Time for the poor owners to get paid a starters incentive , by the clubs for providing product. Owners Get Paid! Owners Get Paid! Owners Get Paid! "Go the Poor down trodden Owners" Surely we can get a Polo shirt out their and hang a flag up at Ellerslie and get looked after?

Is it a coincidence that the All-Star haters are always wishing and hoping Harness racing is finished and the 394 licenced trainers are wasting their time. Can't wait to see if the yearling sale is a massive flop. We will see who buys and pays the most.

Perhaps Peter Jenkins will respond to this thread and give his thoughts on Dundeel's future as a sire - the numbers certainly stack up for him so far. I believe he was behind Dundeel being signed by Arrowfield Stud.

The conspiracy theorists will have a field day with this race and those draws.

I completely agree Leo, I was just responding to the assertion he was doing it for free. I am all for capitalism and making a quid

Nice to see the unique beautiful woman that wears her pressed shirts reads RC then puts it all over her Facebook page. She gets backed up from all her FB "friends" and even asked character references from strangers.... What court case is this for????.

Actually don't own one with balls on it

Actually the sleeve ripped thank you very much and when had time changed it as for bizarre it is white with collar and sleeves thank you

Are we talking about a woman who has been wearing the most bizarre shirts I've ever seen. This week is was a off the shoulder Lacey number,I've seen her pirate shirt and ones with balls sown onto them too. I only tune in to see what the hell she is wearing this week

Well respected writer Tony Morris is doing a series on some of the great horses of the past and also this article on Tesio http://newspaper.racingpost.com/html5/reader/get_clipping.aspx?edid=ecbd389d-6e1b-4641-b903-6215f6f18082&pnum=14&timestamp=20190117060953218 https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/articles/tony-morriss-100-shapers-breed-outstanding-sire-18th-century/ At the bottom of the article is all the previous articles in the series. By clicking on breeding and sales at the top you get the latest articles as they come out.

Wiremu Pinn has walked away from his apprenticeship with Allan Sharrock at New Plymouth. Now working on a Rotorua dairy farm. Sad situation.