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Yes I have crunched those numbers and they are not that bad. But here is another real issue. i am just so pissed off with our administration at both NZRB and NZTA level I just cant be bothered supporting their product anymore. Year after year we just hear the same tripe and the only direction we have is backwards. I have no faith or trust in any of the management. For several years I have invested, I have owned in excess of 20 thoroughbreds over the last 12 years, all 100%. At the beginning of this year I had 9 (no not 90 - just 9), I have 5 left. One of those is a broodmare who is coming up 3 years without any intimacy. She has been told that even though she is in her prime those days are over unless she can sort for herself. I have 2 three year old's and one just turned two - all boys and all who will be tried and trialed with the intention to sell. None will race in NZ under my name unless absolutely necessary, - that being if we think we can win a race to sell. I lost my other broodmare, syndicated one (he still hasn't raced) and tried 2 filly's - both at age three. One of these went pretty good, was told she would win a few but needed time - would however struggle to get black type, the other no good. Both were retired immediately and found good homes, thankfully quiet types. That's me - I'm out. I don't trust our brand anymore. I love the game and most of the people, I love the thrill of the chase - to try and find that good one who i may read about one day on page 3. But as a punter as well I have also been in conflict with my self for several years - I love the Aussie punt, i hate just about everything of the NZ punt - the tracks, the inconsistent track preparation, small betting pools, the amateur broadcast, the inconsistent tempo, the gutless odds etc. I stopped having a serious bet here years ago. I hate to bet offshore knowing that I am not supporting in my own small way the industry that I myself invest in, even though I easily spend 4/5 times more on the punt than I do on paying the breeding and ownership bills. I will feel at peace soon when I shift my betting offshore again. But I've had a gutsful and sick of getting a two fingered salute from above who will neither front up or f**k off. One or the other would be a good start.

I have a gelding just turned 5 - has had 5 starts for a win and minor placings amassing $7,400 in NZ Stakes in first prep but after deduction of all costs for that prep about $16,000 loss, does not include all previous preps and costs since foal. Horse has been in paddock at home since May. Current rating of 62. Trainer (very respected) has a high opinion. Here is my issue - cost of new prep will be around $14,000 before he will be competitive to earn (that includes 2 local starts - no travel). Will also cost 2 points so he will be down to 60 rating. By then it will be January and he wont have enough points to start in Saturday race, so we be racing for $3800 winning purse. Lets say he won and was given 7 points - 67. Now in 75 class and still wont have enough points for Saturday. Meanwhile another month, another set of bills which deletes winnings thus far. Still on the $3800 band wagon. So i'm down $14,000 still and racing for pittance. Lets say he wins another - that's 3 wins so puts him in an elite group of horses in NZ that win 3+ races in their career. Then we make it to Saturday class - finally, but realistically probably 6/7 maybe 8 starts into prep. Time for break? Luckily I have my own agistment, so no cost there apart from silage/hay making, fertiliser, my own time and costs for running repairs for fencing and tractor etc. But I do not include any agistment costs in my budgets. So Greg - my question, given your vast experience and knowledge of horse ownership what would you do? Continue to race in NZ (long tunnel - no light) or retire?

I'm at the same point, when the last of mine are finished racing they will not be replaced. They make $$$ off a product we provide with our blood sweat and tears. I love this industry, it's in my blood, but the returns are just not worth it.

the excuses drivers use to get away with thing is amazing, freedom fighter was driven completely different on Friday from its previous starts then makes a long sustained run from the 500m and wins easy 2 days later and they let them away with Fridays run when the horse was clearly there just for a quiet run. Surprised the hitting the disks excuse wasn't pulled from the hat of lies again

Ridiculous

Woodsie, you've been a great servant of the game. Best champ, hope your personal weather report tonight is wet and wild, with a very warm front.

Happy~Birthday..Chris, and may it 'kick on'

thanks john my opinion is the greyhounds supply a product for the public to bet on the tab make money out of this so why shouldn't they help out the owners and trainers as i see it the trots and gallops get appearance fees and if nzgra introduced a system similar to aust it would fair right across the board . what if you were to take one dog from christchurch to invercargill you thought it had a great chance only to be taking out of the race by some aussie import i know 20 dollars isnt much but at least it will get you a pie and coke on way home

Think you are being a bit OTT Slim, John has always taken the stance that we have been doing the industry a mischief by making NZ the dumping ground for dogs unable to compete in longer races elsewhere. It is very apparent that he has been correct as we find NZ struggling to fill middle distance races. I was of the same opinion but came to the conclusion that if you want to be part of the NZ scene you have to race sprinters or your options are very limited. John obviously still adheres to his belief but good on him for taking advantage for a sprint win if that is part of his dogs preparation. Arch Lawrence is another example of someone who is absolutely dedicated himself to distance dogs but still wins the odd sprint, Nothing wrong with that at all

Exactly - and here's another. Last year the NZRB ran some hair brain competition - you pick every winner of all the games at the RWC and you get to win a million bucks. Like WTF - the odds of doing so were some like trillions to one. So it would have costs like thousands to set up software programmes and logistics to actually run this comp and underwrite the prizemoney. I think someone who had never placed a bet at the TAB in his life picked the first 3 results correctly - then lost, only had like another 30 odd to get right before he got the million. SO the question is how much did it cost to run that stupid comp. The Makfi HB day last September was abandoned, all horses were on course - but lets not dwell on that too much. Every non runner on that day was given a token payment of $200 to "cover" the travel expenses etc. Yeah right. But get this - less the 48 hours later the frikin NZRB roll up to this guy on Prime Time nationwide TV (at what cost) and give this guy who picked 3 out of 30 a free trip to the RWC ($$$$) - airfares, accommodation and "expenses" for same bookie to front on national TV. Yes John you may call this Great Public Relations - not on my watch, it was a fly in the face for all those who went to HB, horses, trainers, owners and families for 200 stinkin dollars. Less than 48 hours John - I didn't have a horse at HB but I didn't see the humour either, that money should have gone to those connections - they are the ones who front your Turnover John, they are the ones who put up, they are the ones who were deserved.

Agree totally. I'll add some points that bother me - just a couple at this stage - We keep hearing that T/O is increasing, followed quickly by that fact it is increasing in low margin options. We hear costs are being addressed and next sentence "we need more infrastructure and more bookmakers as our T/O is increasing". We turn the TV on and see the TAB splashing out sponsoring Auckland Darts and Boxing events - both low margin, in fact the lowest margin as both are predominately "in play" wagering events. In what sensible business model do you sink $$ in low profit events? And at what loss do all of these cost our industry? How much does sponsorship of events cost and what are the events? Every dollar of sponsorship in a 8% average margin return event, requires $12.50 of t/o just to break even on the cost of sponsorship does it not? Please correct me if I am wrong but this crap does my head in. If we scratch the surface it will uncover wastage, but nothing is transparent. - Why can't the NZRB provide reports that are consistent. Every year reports have subtle changes from the last - provide a template and report in a consistent manner.

That might work for your dog just fine, but what about the dogs that the barking muzzle does work on, most as soon as you put it on soon realise they are wasting their breath barking and calm down, would punters like to know that the dog they have just backed has been barking non-stop for 2 hours in th kennel block?

Must say that i agree with your summation GONSTA. A lot of the posters on here think the NZGRA is a benevolent society, there to take them by the hand, and feed them welfare every step of the way.

One of the great racing mysteries that, and the only reasonable explanation I've ever heard was that they wanted an embroidered CV that said something along the lines of " increased stakes in NZ by xxxxx during the period ...." One word, bizarre, the only winner being the Government, or more correctly the IRD GST collection department.

Did the owner supply NZGRA the form as per rule 59.1 ? if so an error by NZGRA, if not an error by the owner

I do agree with cutting vouchers to a degree but im far from convinced that it will improve the quality of the fields we will see. It is a shame that if your dog falls through no fault of its own or yours that you will now go home empty handed....at least a $20 voucher went part way towards helping with the disappointment!

Watch what happens after the Olympics and the Rugby Championships finish. As soon as the yuppies got into Neflix I bailed out at $6.66 a share. There is a definite lack of common sense that prevails at NZRB and they unerringly make bad choices of direction. But what is really dumb is they don't recognize 'cause and effect' and turn back. That is where JA should step in. Everyone in business makes wrong moves but if you don't recognize those and reverse them the business will fail.

Did anyone see this horse on debut at Ashburton. How impressive!!!!!! Granted it didn't beat anything of note. It smashed them. Won in a canter and Terry Moseley has said it's the best he's ridden in a long time. Will be a future worth watching

Really what has Graeme done the way it is at the moment he will win again as the others just split the vote time to put new bloood in there so maybe Matt Gardner or Greg could be good

I will treat this post with the contempt it deserves.

Don't blame the Monkey when you can point the bone at the Grinder - the Board. The NZTR Board are approving everything he does. So please, don't blame a person because you think he is not up to it. The Board condone it so it's "their" responsibility. As for getting out of the game you love. It will cost you about $3200 a month to race a horse in Qld or country NSW/Vic. The stakes are reasonable and if you have a couple of partners the costs are not bad considering the possible gains. You can still punt on them and you have far more options. Northern NSW is starting to fire up. Sunshine Coast races "every week" on a Sunday and if you can graduate there, it's only a short ride to Doomben or The Farm. Then there's the glorious weather when you come for a holiday....don't give up your passion for owning a horse and dreaming of the good one - just shift it to Oz. Get one from the sales and ship it over after it's had a trial. Just prepare them in NZ. Trent Bussuttin has about 20-30 empty stables to fill at Cranbourne. There's a start.

so the rules dont apply to you

I'd say "Well coached and well rehearsed". Ron Barrasi must have come out of retirement.

I think my last sentence sums it up however I think at this stage i'm 2 for 3 which isn't bad unless Jimmy Choux and Ocean Park have done things I am not aware of.With Trackside Freeview no longer available my interest has some what waned.

Dear TLTL, I can vouch for at least 3 trainers in Oz that have trained for me, all champion blokes and Gr winning trainers, they'll be only too happy to take your fella, sorry loss for NZ trainers, but you can kick back and watch your mate go around at Dubbo, or Scone, or Inshalla, Randwick et al…….the training fees may be a tad higher, not so much I'm led to believe for a couple up north, but at least you will win one race, just one race and re-coup your exes. Plus they will pay the jock for you, no acceptance, and they'll even pay you up to 1200 bucks to front up…….go figure?

Makes no difference if he does or doesnt...why doesnt he trial them ready to go 500 then?? Oh yea cause he wants some stakes from "squib" racing first.

You'd have to think looking at his performances on the race track that time would be a friend to his progeny. There will be no fanfare from here on out though , now he has left the building.

I think you're pushing your luck thinking you'll get a question answered by this crowd in the first place. I find it difficult to understand why the majority of people in racing who race a horse think they should make money out of it, there are no guarantees in the sport and it's fraught with layer upon layer of misfortune,bad luck and intervention from the gods.You don't see a guy who takes his fishing boat out , drives a speedway car, goes skiing etc. make a profit out of what is usually their leisure activity. However having said that I do sympathize with you when you're racing a horse under a regime where the odds are so heavily stacked against you even breaking even it's a struggle to stay in the game and I know it shouldn't be like that. I can't see the racing pie increasing any time soon, therefore I believe there needs to a fundamental change to the allocation of the pie i.e. more support for stakes at the industry level even if that means taking them from the top tier to keep owners ticking over in the sport until it improves and I keep bleating on about it a return to free racing, it simply defies belief that an owner is expected to pay noms and acceptances to enter races like we have here. Better use of the tracks available i.e. stop the unnecessary over allocation of race dates to a favoured few tracks and start preparing a calendar that has the punter and racing communities in mind , alter the diabolical funding policy which looks like it was put together by a 2yo to something that incentivises clubs to support stakes and owners instead of a policy that favours a handful of clubs at the expense of others. I hate to say it but I have no faith anything logical will occur under the current regime at NZTR so the outlook is fairly gloomy imo.

Betty, you are like our Renegades team. Either absolutely brilliant ,or absolutely useless. Fantastic total ,well done . Lets see if you can crack the 6 grand mark. "or absolutely useless. " ???? Rees ?? $118, $316, $473, $385, $121, $376, $127, $95, $291, $361, $1322, $51, $208, $558, $342. Looks consistently very good to me Rees, 10 out of 15 weeks with a score above $200, one absolutely brilliant week $1322, only two Saturdays under $100. You're a hard man to please, Rees ! Give him an uppercut, Betty.

Little comp just among ourselves.Using P.J.,S comp. lets psych the others out by out scoring them all

Do you know the interesting thing? Management would use your comments as justification for what they are doing. Their argument would be that we can't afford this lower level of unsustainable racing with poorly performing horses and we are better off without them. It's why they are trying to cull out all of you people and just retain the the "rather dubious" top tier breeder orientated racing. They don't see any need for basic infrastructure and patterned racing. They don't see any need for country tracks to introduce new generations to racing. Why do you think we have $7,000 races? The sooner you people all go the better as far as the "Think Tank" is concerned.

Point taken. Unfortunately it wasnt that long ago that a dog actually died in the kennel block in the CD from choking on the material type barking straps (based on what I heard was the circumstances). Possibly the cases of acidosis could increase now due to this decision, I for one have now deleted barking straps from the gear criteria panel for race days....I pity the poor kennel staff cause maaaan does my boy bark like no other! (Hence the reason I ended up getting him id say!) This is more of a travesty for the punters than printing what they did wear in my opinion. ....1 nil to the activists.

Bit academic but if Super Easy had raced in Australia rather than Singapore he would have won a Group One just like his half brothers Tiger Tees and Terravista.

Many just use it as a welfare system, the slow dogs are just there to get the vouchers to subsidise the travel etc....for the faster ones, if nomination fees were brought back and you actually had to perform to get a cheque then some of these trainers might have to work a bit harder. You should not get something for just turning up and going round.

Lol.... If that's your attitude towards slow dogs it's hardly nzgra's fault is it... They aren't a charity, if you consistently breed below average dogs then why on earth should you be rewarded? Some of you guys need to take a long hard look at your attitude towards greyhound racing especially on a public forum. Just because your not receiving a $20 petrol voucher you think all these slow dogs are going to dis appear? No wonder the industry is farked with disgusting attitudes like some of you have on here.

Agree Turny. For a 'sit and sprinter' it certainly had a very long sprint, 4 and 5 wide from the back and kept up a long sustained run to win, obvious now that they had no intention on winning on Friday.

Race 2 No Rogerson followers??? 3 Lucor Festinato 20.9 no selections 1 Kittykittybangbang 3.6 Memhis2, nek minute 7 Palacio 10.0 no selections the only question is will Memphis2 keep picking 2nds???

Well racing is full of hope , so why not salute the Birthday of the glorious thoroughbreds that will transport (Caution : no guarantee provided) Cubemeister to Racing ownership glory.... The yearlings from Karaka (Festival Sale) are now 2yo's , Cup week is just around the corner , and winningness is in the air for the whole stable . ! . So Happy Birthday to Hammy , Hero , Coco , Secret , Beau , Pearl , Cracker and Friend . Footnote : Errrr.....winningness would be better sooner that later for Cubity , 'cause Mrs Cubes is on the warpath about the horse billingness that has been hitting the 'ol letterbox here at Cube Central just lately Cubes and Out

Good for you Superdoper, i love my sprinters.

Just a note on Gary Sharp aka white knight. Saw Gary at Manakau on Sunday and he was chipper and upbeat despite the back pain. Gary you have served the sport well and were always cheerful, polite and industrious on race days without being overly officious as some raceday officials are want to do. Well done and we expect to see you back in another role when your good bitch reproduces. A lot of people get given a nickname if I was to give you one it would be rake.

'A young Wellington woman was so depressed that she decided to end her life by throwing herself into the sea, but just before she could throw herself from the wharf, a handsome young man stopped her. "You have so much to live for," said the man. "I'm a sailor, and we are off to California tomorrow. I can stow you away on my ship. I'll take care of you, bring you food every day, and keep you happy." With nothing to lose, combined with the fact that she had always wanted to go to California, the woman accepted. That night the sailor brought her aboard and hid her in a small but comfortable compartment in the hold. From then on, every night he Would bring her three sandwiches, a bottle of red wine, and make love To her until dawn. Two weeks later she was discovered by the captain during a routine inspection. "What are you doing here?" asked the captain. "I have an arrangement with one of the sailors," she replied. "He brings me food and I get a free trip to California." "I see," the captain says. Her conscience got the best of her and she added, "Plus, he's screwing me." "He certainly is," replied the captain. "This is the Picton Ferry."

There is a magic bullet. It's obvious that actual betting on horses is not growing and facing increased competition. Therefore the magic bullet is you get away trying to push bricks uphill and look for new ways to extract income. Those ways however won't come from the current management and structure which is solely focussed on income from wagering.

Big unit with a massive stride. Will be interesting to see how he goes on firmer tracks - in N.Z. hopefully not Asia!

Gift of Power very impressive winner at Te Teko Trials today. 2f ex Capital Diamond. Rogerson trained.

I agree when they first came out I use to multi up a couple a day but found it frustrating when they were only bought out a few mins before the start.

Dear Agony Aunt, My husband is a liar and a cheat.. He has cheated on me from the beginning and when I confront him, he denies everything. What's worse, everyone knows he cheats on me. It's so humiliating. Also, since he lost his job 15 years ago, he hasn't even looked for a new one. All he does all day is smoke cigars, play golf, cruise around and shoot ball with his buddies and has sex with hookers, while I work so hard to pay our bills. Since our daughter went away to college and then got married he doesn't even pretend to like me, and hints that I may be a lesbian. What should I do? Signed: Confused Dear Confused: Grow up and dump him. You don't need him anymore! Good grief woman, you're running for President of the United States!

Different race on Sunday,2600m and drawn wide.Trouble with the sprint distance on Friday is that generally when a horse hasnt got early speed they will have less of a chance to go round as less of an easing in the speed because every horse can run a sprint.Chances are that on sunday with the extra distance whoever leads will have to ease up at some stage because 2600m is at the end of or past most horses ability

Those noted comments be all lost in the system, even if it wins sunday, on the other hand what a tough old horse Eastwood jaunty was, and his trainer driver george shand, he was an icon in his day and always travelled afar. Can you recall any other of his horses that went good, another driver from that era i used to follow was Trevor Thomas, was the driver of joyboy started in the Westport cup off 120m handicap one year, finished 3rd i think, memories from the past, always good to remember.

Shaky, that is the worst argument I have seen put forward. If I suddenly decide to race 2000 greyhounds do you think the greyhound association and all the other participants should make sacrifices so they ensure I succeed. Same argument used with imports, "this is costing me a fortune and you buggers should help reimburse me."