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I listened to Tommy H talk to Des Coppins this morning. Tommy said that they had previously sold Werther to Hong Kong for $150k which was a fraction of what he was finally sold for. Werther was initially turned down by a Hong Kong trainer for $150k because he thought Werther was too small. I would speculate that the trainer would currently be feeling real small himself.

You are kidding. Where do you think the wonderful "winning strategies" we have to endure come from ? Think Monday racing, Triple Trio, weird race scheduling, the co-mingling fiasco for starters.... The clowns at the top are supposed to direct NZ Racing, and that's usually where creativity and initiative come in. At the moment, if they are directing it, it is in the wrong direction......

I reasoned her internet connection must have been cut off so slipped a prepaid self addressed envelope under the door of her caravan but can't be bothered waiting for her to send it back.

I am sure Mrs Ed has those stats Canelo given that she is such a huge fan of Tavistock

Could he be rewriting the record books. ?. I remember my son in law who trained him saying that he had a wicked turn of foot.He has certainly passed that on . Big times ahead

The Tavistock over a Zabeel mare cross has produced 10 winners from 14 starters including Tarzino and Hasselhoof.

This horse was given a veterinary examination by order of stewards after racing on 10th march. This was a result of a performance which looked like the horse had some sort of problem. Stewards required a veterinary clearance before next racing, with trainer mr dalgety to report back. Well in todays stipes report it stated mr dalgetys vet had found nothing wrong in the blood tests. The question has to be asked. Why did the RIU not have their own experts analyse blood taken from this horse? Do they really think mr dalgetys vet is impartial? Not suggesting anything untoward going on,just think its about time the RIU at least give the impression they are interested in the reasons for horses performing as this one did.

This has happened to my brain over the last week.....and you can probably tell I've been holed up watching a bit of TV Tried on 11 occasions to place a bet using the TAB phone service. Couldn't get an operator. Yes I could have used the computer but because I tried once, I was interested in knowing if that failed attempt was a terminal issue....it was. If the TAB markets that it provides a telephone service, then make sure it works. The message says use the telephone touchtone number 0800 102033 but it you try using your mobile, it doesn't accept your attempt at using it. Watched Cheltenham (via the web) and thought to myself what a pleasure it was to be presented a story board on horse racing rather than this perverse need for all of our commentators to try to be tipsters. Don't the generals of our industry realise that if our commentators were successful tipping experts, then they wouldn't be commentators. By continuously referring to their tips, they are directing the viewer to follow them and have a bet on their "certainty" (don't really know why they would want to do that), but they will ultimately lose which will disenfranchise the viewer from the industry. This is not a very difficult notion to understand. The commentators need to stop talking about their tips and betting. They need to talk about the horses, the story board, the people and they definitely need to be autonomous. Listening to the commentators in the UK and Aussie, they have passion and an inherent understanding of the horse and the form of the horse. They hardly talk about betting. Our commentators operate on a methodology format. They taper their voice inflections relating to the content which creates a monotonous drone. This is where the last couple of words in sentences have a pitch change to create a miniature pause between sentences. It is lazy commentating and reporting. Why isn't there additional coaching to these people? The industry needs to dispense with the services of the current person responsible for delivering the visual image of the content of Trackside, unless the person is new. The content is sloppy, smacks of complacency and laziness to extend and push the boundaries of reporting and sourcing visual data. The channel programs need to be a compelling entertainment version of reality TV. We're so far away from it, its embarrassing. I Have no idea why there is a continuous, and often outdated version of so called entertainment called "Bred to Win". I've now seen the same program on a number of occasions and its all about AUSTRALIAN BREEDING. Hopefully we are being paid a fortune for this advertising......does anyone know whether this is an advertorial? Where are the NZ stories? The trials were at Counties on the 15th March. Why did it take until the 20th to post the videos of those trials? This should all be automated.

Yes Biff that Miracle Mile that Young Quinn won beating Paleface Adios, Hondo Gratten etc was amazing and Wow what a huge crowd at Harold Park that night

Except there was a post a few years back where CT accurately predicted a winner that from memory paid $1.40. That might match it.

I have chosen not to comment on this subject as I know nothing about it. I am surprised so many do have an opinion as it is something not many would be qualified to comment on.

I agree Kakama, close the bloody thread, in the big scheme of things I reckon 99% of people on this site are fair dinkum good buggers, so why fall out over a positive swab argument.......

Biff, what if Greg Purcell wants to join you? He loves travelling you know!

I dont think it's a conspiracy theory actually. I think it's complacency and a lack of thought and critical analysis. Being prepared to take the easy road, Running it as an insiders game - stuff the punter.

Ha, aint that the truth........have you ever seen a horse travel so well on the corner in a Gr1? he was under a throttle hold and the others were digging.

Perhaps John pulled Lord Module's tail? Maybe that was where he got his fettish

You sound high pitched today Berlog, anything changed....?

1995 Garth Jackson - trainer; Chris O'Brien rode, at least the first day.

Westport? That must have been a day or two ago. Probably 25 years if not 30 since they raced gallops at Westport.

We must be careful on what we give a free pass on. Should all young horses now be given a free pass until they are experienced? Should all young horses racing on grass be given a free pass? If so,should we make such races none tote events? Must be remembered the winner had only had one more start than the runner up. I also have faith in R May but not to the degree that he can't be guilty of an occasional error of judgment. If the Stewards thought that all drivers / jockey's past a certain point in their careers would be exempt from any action against them in the room ever being taken,then how long before hypocrisy and chaos reign? I've seen Lester Piggott and Frankie Dettori make serious errors of judgment in races. I've seen Tony Herlihy and Dexter Dunn make serious errors of judgment. Even the very best make judgment errors. You believe R May's drive would probably have galloped had he shown more vigor. Fair enough. I accept that possibility but no more than a 50/50 prospect. Do you accept it was four lengths ahead of the third horse so would very likely have retained second if he had galloped near the finish? Is horse racing not a business built on gambling for all involved? Do you accept that the second placed horse was travelling better than the winner in the last 20 metres? Do you accept the margin between first and second was a nose? Do you accept the winner had no gas left in the tank at the finish? Do you accept that the second horse was in front a stride after the post? Do you accept the possibility that with any vigor shown the second horse would likely have been in front on the line? Was that not worth the gamble? Is it a good look that a senior driver can sit as quiet as a church mouse and then go under by a nose to a horse he was traveling better than and then be given a free pass at a club where he is the President?

Quite a reasonable interpretation, so why don't they change the rule to something like " any jockey may, if endeavoring to give their mount every opportunity, take reasonable steps to obtain a clear path to challenge within the last 500m of a race ". They turn a blind eye to it anyway, in other words they give it tacit approval as you correctly observe, but it's a clear breach of the current ( poorly worded ) rule. It's really odd how they nearly always ignore horses shifting right to left at Ellerslie but go overboard on horses shifting left to right, think Mime, what's that about ?? Do the stipes think lateral movement is ok if you're shifting out but not if you're shifting in ? And if they do what's the difference between the two ?

You've also got to be happy that the second horse is also a New Zealand bred by Savaberl. Also of interest is the franking of the form. The third horse ran 4th in the English Derby and 3rd in the Irish Derby so we can actually breed them to be good. Love what Moore has done with Werther. He's improved the horse out of sight. So to Tavistock.....one thing you can say about him is that he's a stallion capable of producing international standard horses. That's a rare beast. Aren't we lucky. He should be standing at $50,000 on that fact alone. What I love about them is that his progeny can really quicken. That's quite rare

Off the beaten track ...but just from being in the industry for many years you hear and see all kinds of ...lets say performance preserver. In the eighties oil base steriods and hemo 15 In the nineties blood thinners and a tonne of vit b and water based steriods And now/was the cobalt scadals. and bute enhanced horses at the trials. What next..... it would be awesome to see everyone on the same honesty page and let the real genuine racehorse win a race on its own true abilities.

I like the look of Muscles Galore, he was impressive yesterday despite check running home strongly. He'll win soon. Best of luck for rest of season.

A new coach will be in place before game 6. One of the toughest jobs in world sport is coaching the Warriors. Its getting very tiresome supporting them that's for sure.

At what number or thereabouts is a young stallion considered full these days? Is that number disclosed to breeders? I believe that has a bearing on the viability of the stallion at that price. A stallion af 50k covering 130 or covering 170 is an important factor to consider not only for sale but also for the accessability of a stallion in being able to cover your mare and not be put on the back burner but that is the reality of breeding to a horse in vogue, that you may miss out.

Or 044727888. Berri's post is spot on. I cannot stand the waffle that our presenters bombard us with, pure shite. The mute button is the order of the day round here. And it is a pleasure to listen to overseas feeds rather than the self appointed experts that we are subjected to.

If you watch and listen to people like retired jockey Simon Marshall, you really get the goods on the chances of each horse, based on its current form, past performances over the distance, it's trial form, the track conditions, it's looks (eg, coat) and it's demeanour in the mounting yard, etc. I find that info very helpful to go with what I have previously worked out "myself" during the period between acceptances and start time. Usually, at the end of his summation, he would be asked to give his selections. These do not sway me one iota. I'm not that interested in commentators tips - I'm interested only in the info they provide just in case I've missed something. But Berri is right, some of the NZ commentary is bordering on "Cuckoo's Nest" proportions. Melbourne had some of the best - especially when they interview a trainer or two before the horses leave the yard. I love hearing Peter Snowden, Matty Ellerton, Darren Weir or Chris Waller talk about the chances of their runners. Gives me a bit of confidence in my selections. I thought Capitalist was the top pick for the Slipper, especially at $8.50. I backed him and was very confident given the assurances the Snowden's had given about him. If he had won his only lead-up he would have been $2.50 ! I'm only spewing because I had 3rd,4th,5th,6th and 7th in the Tri and f4 !! Left out an unbeaten filly with a World Class jockey on it and yep - it got 2nd(grrrr). Still, at $8.50, Capitalist was a great anchor into some nice multi All-Ups

Probably the most accurate post ever made on Cafe.

Screening procedures Liz, screening procedures.

Leigh, I made particular reference to Chevy86 in paragraph two above, in response to a not very nice attack by him on me. Now I notice that the post attacking me has been removed. Who removed it, you or Chevy86? If it was you, please then remove the 2nd paragraph in the original posting and also this posting too.

Simple process really in terms of those doing the digging...... there will be sign off process for a $200k payout. Depending on the organisation $200k might not be a CEO level sign off. Someone has clearly asked for it and that request will have been approved by their superior- the finance dept have ticked all of their boxes and paid the dosh. i'd speculate that Elmer's fingerprints aren't directly on this and that he'll kick on in his career, after copping a slight check in the running.

Completely agree with all that Midget. Thanks for your help. You are maybe misreading me though. I can accept the explanation of Moody and even of Wexford. I completely agree with you about the science and that there probably was no intent to administer a prohibited substance with the intent of enhancing performance in either case. My concern is only about the level of penalty for presenting a horse to race with a prohibited substance in their system above threshold levels. I've simply presented the arguments based on previous cases for that and argued the importance with respect to integrity of the game and horse welfare as have various panels, tribunals etc. in previous cases. You seem to think I am disagreeing with something I am not. This is also a question of fairness. It seems incredibly unjust to me if the likes of Moody or Wexford were to get away with a substantially lesser penalty for essentially the same presentation offence as the likes of Kevin Moses, despite three appeals in that case. There has to be consistency for integrity.

I say it will be $50,000 + GST. Personally I think that is too much or put another way, too much of a risk given all that can and does go wrong. At $50K he will still fill instantly as there are very few stallions offering his ability to sire classic stayers.

I was lucky enough to sit behind Paleface Adios once, he used to work at Croydon Park when he came to race in Sydney, stayed at Bill Wilkins place, (Bangaroo Flex), Colin Pike let me drive him home from work as we used to ride our hardest pullers on the oval after Canterbury track work......the hairs on my neck stood on end.....I was like a kid in a lolly shop, he was a lovely horse, not only a champion, but a lovely horse......never forget those days, priceless.

Nah, you had to be at Harold Park to see Young Quinn........now that was a night out!

Midget, the site is for everyones opinions just because YOU say it does not mean everyone HAS to agree with it, thats why everyone is entitled to their say... anyway thats the way I choose to run it here... everyone can have their 2Cc worth without the need for name calling and such...cheers. I think it is a huge loss to the industry to see him go, a real top bloke and a bloody good trainer... but hey thats just my opinion, I am sure others disagree... but this life.

I was a regular at Galloping meetings there. Leo had some superb days there when I was a young kid. I can't recall ever going to a harness meeting there but some of those westport harness blokes are bloody good fellas. Times at Reefton haven't got that much quicker Shad. For years a horse of Bill Kennedy's called Peligro held the 1400m track record at about 1.23.7. He was a very smart horse however and in those days there was no irrigation so the track could get like absolute lightning. He also held the Greymouth track record for 1400m - about the same time I believe. He did it in the late seventies and hand timed to be fair so whether the timing boys just ducked out of the bar as they jumped who knows?

That'll make you conspirators & nutters happy if we lose a great man to the game. Meantime the Terry Bailey shoot out at his home has gone where ?? No wucking fonder the game is in a tail spin when those who've done virtually nothing in racing decide on the fate of those who put on the show for us all, and in case you're wondering my comments are absolutely and totally addressed at you internutters as much as they're addressed to the losers in suits who've driven this witch hunt. This is a travesty of justice.

To be fair boss things often wander off on tangents on this website. How come you suddenly jump on it?

sorry, but they were good days

Thanks Alphonse-Gabriel for your excellent points.You could have also added the fact that the winner was trotting more evenly and squarer than Ricky's horse. I am not into conspiracy theories so do not subscribe to the argument that the stipes gave Ricky a free pass.

Chris On loan for a few months. Gr8t for this wonderful young person to score his first Aussie win. Had a stint before his bad fall, with Mr Waller and he has really matured since then. The Birdie girl ( his wonderful Mother) will be playing the My Sky tonight and keeping Kev awake !! Great news.

That's brilliant. Well done that man

he seems to love suing - is she a Cambodian hooker?

This is what every dog deserves

Q. What are the best 3 years in an Aussies life? A. 4th form

That's the sort of guy we need running the TAB and Thoroughbred Racing. In other words the ability to turn a hopeless position into a winning one. Liz

:http://www.youtube.com/embed/ub1Dc3NHZ3s?autoplay=1&cc_load_policy=1

Very similar to what I can see evolving VC. Get rid of Hurrell IMO.....his body can't take the hard knocks as far as I'm concerned. Has trouble with the top 2 inches (or maybe 10 with his haircut currently)...I see another sin bin on the weekend FFS.......no thanks we don't need that "culture" anymore. Keeping everyone fit and healthy is the key for next season.....same for every team I suppose. Be nice to see the U20's and reserve grade progress further in the finals. Give us an interest.....I hope Stacey grabs 4 or 5 of the boys who started yesterday. Doggies this week I think & Wyong to follow....both "winable" although those Mounties look as though they will take it out.....thumped us 2 weeks running now.