RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.

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  1. Yep they just don't get it. I logged into my Sportsbet account today and it's plastered all over their website that they refunded $1.65M to customers yesterday from 4 races at Caulfield - $1.65M - that's showing goodwill, looking after your customers and using it to promote your company! Yet here the TAB are happy to cop the terrible publicity that this debacle has created for them for the sake of, like you say, maybe $50k. Meanwhile we can all keep holding our breath waiting for the working group to try and figure out why more people are betting offshore and what to do to stop it.....
    6 points
  2. Gee, wouldn't Karen Z have a good case against the NZTR.......surely her owners should stand up and air their grief.......the stupidity continues here, plus the contempt for owners.
    5 points
  3. Just the sort of well informed, impartial, evidence based, professional response I'd expect coming from the two time (why was it twice in less than a year again?) PNGRC president. It might be prudent if you spent your time looking after the racing club that you're meant to be leading, instead of attempting to attack & bully me in this public forum. How did that work out for you last time you tried it? Might I suggest a bit of white paint to improve the overall appearance of the track your club races on? And if the Wanganui club is nice enough to let you use their rake for an hour or so, a bit of weeding around the edge would make your track look much more professional. It even appears as though a patch of those weeds may have impeded the progress of one of your dogs in this race.
    3 points
  4. enteebee

    FRANCO NELSON

    What a ridulous statement. Michael House made the ready to run sale a success by leaving something in the tank for future trainers. kamwood cully, fiery falcon, highview tommy among many that went on. if he had burnt them out people would not have come back to buy at subsequent sales.
    3 points
  5. Midget

    Funny for Friday

    The Midget has been around a while now, but even by his standards he pulled off a beautiful maneuver the other day. Turns out a good looking older bird had been and had a " bit of work done" by one of those flash surgeons in town, and she was feeling pretty good about herself so on the way home to Pukekohe she called into the gas station, filled the motor, and when paying asked the cashier " how old do you think I am ?".......' About 30 mam '...." No I'm 50" Feeling a bit special she stopped at the Karaka market, bought two organic avocados, and when paying the chap behind the counter tried the same " how old do you think I am?"......' About 28, maybe 30, 32 max ' said the bloke. Felling pretty damn good about the results she dropped into McDonalds, that one right next to Morty's pub, same again, " how old....?" .....' Not a day over 30 madam'....."really, I'm 50!!" So to celebrate the old bird whips over to Saloon Saloon and orders a glass of bubbly. The Midget is standing on a chair behind the bar ( the bar is over 4'6") and the bird says " how old do you reckon I am ?" Morty climbs down off the chair, wanders around and says to the bird, "I'm 61 today, everything is falling me, including my eyes, but I have a guaranteed way of telling how old you are, but I need to squeeze ya tits" The bird looks at him for a bit, then says " oh what the hell......off you go" So the Midget reaches up under her blouse, unclips the bra, rubs his gnarly old hands all over her left breast, rolls the right one through his other hand, pinches the nipples, has a bit of a sniff, squeezes the two this together over his ample nose......then says "you're fifty" The bird us fabbergasted, shocked, " how did you know that, are you a freak?" "No" said the Midget, "I was standing behind you at McDonalds"
    2 points
  6. Ashoka

    Tiger Tara

    I don't believe that Venus Serena will have benefitted from the effort she was required to put in last Friday. Hard racing is alright for a fit horse. Venus Serena was on the way up, logic suggests, but I feel that she will have gone significantly backwards after that run and will need time to recover and then more time to get back to where she was prior to her last run. Time will tell, I guess. Cheers. Ashoka
    2 points
  7. Yankiwi

    Camera lure at Manawatu

    Yet another angle. https://www.thedogs.co.nz/catch-the-action/11869/stewards-report.aspx "The film did not conclusively show that the rake had made contact with the dog jumping from box 8 and the dog was unaffected." If it was of the stewards opinion that "The film did not conclusively show that the rake had made contact with the dog jumping from box 8" how could it conclusively show that "the dog was unaffected"? For the dog to be "unaffected", as the steward claimed, it conclusively could not have been struck, right? Beyond that the rake could not have been heard, it could not have been seen, or it could not have been smelt right? Surely any of those would have an "affect". The final three points are all very big conclusions from video evidence so vague that it couldn't be determined if it was struck or not. How could anyone conclude the dog didn't see it? To me, it was an extremely poor decision which lacked integrity.
    2 points
  8. Basil

    Tiger Tara

    I don't think anybody's criticising GS for putting VS in the race---it's what he did after that that was questionable. Taking a sit behind Brilliant Strike might not have worked, but at least it had some positive probability of succeeding. Running a 28 second quarter in the middle of the race simply to hold the parked position is just an owner- (and horse-) killer. But, as you say, it's easy to be a monday morning quarterback.
    2 points
  9. gubellini

    Opie Bosson

    Good analysis Chestnut. Mongolian Khan is a half brother to Young Centaur who won the Wellington Cup when it was run over 3200m. He was by Jeune who won a Melbourne Cup. Mongolian Khan is such a relaxed horse that he is outrunning his pedigree but I will be astounded if he can find the stamina to run out 3200m against older international horses.
    2 points
  10. You raise a good point Peter, that is the only other thing that could have made this situation worse. Had one of the 8 jockeys that "got away" hesitated in riding their mounts..... they could well have been charged with "failing to give their mount every chance of whatever it is"
    2 points
  11. Yeah the don't seem to realise the follow on consequences of their actions. Until about two years ago I had a relatively small ownership share in about 10 horses. This resulted in regular trips to the track to watch them often with a few friends (who would otherwise never have gone) who would have a few bets over the day (and certainly be long term losing punters) and we'd spend a decent amount on food and drinks, which would have helped the Clubs. Because I was winning a very modest amount per year punting, the NZRB decided I should be banned (not just limited to $2k) from all fixed odds betting including on my own horses. The accountants obviously think that's saved them what I was winning, but what about the cost? Two years on I've reduced my ownership to a share in just 2 horses and once these finish racing I'm done with ownership. I do still go to the track occasionally, but nowhere near as often as I used to. I'm sure if they did a true benefit/cost analysis they would find that the lost revenue to the overall industry is far greater than the small amount I was winning punting, so was it really a good decision to ban me??
    2 points
  12. Huey

    B. Harvey v J. Waddell

    Why does it matter if they had a stack of horse that didn't test positive ? 3 of them did even if 1 of them did they'd still be in the same situation they are in now. I fail to see your point? Are you saying its ok for massive stable to have a few positives, interesting one of them just happened to be in the derby,
    2 points
  13. Midget

    Funny for Friday

    Teacher to kids write down what your Daddy does for a living kids all scribble and giggle, and one by one explain that Daddy builds houses, drives a truck, works in a bank.....flies aero planes, trains horses ( poor bastard ), owns a dairy......except for little Rupert who has he's head buried in his hands a tears running down his spotty little face. teacher puts her arm around little Rupert and says Rupee, tell us about your Dad's job Rupert sobbing says my Dad works as a male stripper at a gay club in Soho, and sometime he doesn't come home, Mum stays up all night waiting for him, and other men do awful things to him, he sells himself to sailors and Labour Party politicians for money.......by this time the oooohs and ahhhhs from the other kids are too much so teacher ushers them outside, returns to little Rupert and asks, Rupee, is that all true, it's terrible.... No Miss, he plays for the the English rugby team but I'm too embarrassed to say so.
    1 point
  14. So the RIU is further diminished in it's standing - the Chairman's comment that the RIU would have been "wise not to have responded as it did" is pretty damning. As is his view that a lot of the evidence presented by RIU was irrelevant ! Plus the RIU has $20,000 of costs taken from it's budget + all the internal time and costs pursuing a totally wasteful and imprudent exercise. The RIU website posting of 8 September referred to also shows a staggering lack of self awareness on the part of the RIU. Oh dear...
    1 point
  15. gubellini

    B. Harvey v J. Waddell

    Totally agree Puha. Six days after the Avondale trial concerned Jason rode in nine Trials at Te Teko winning two of them.Why was he allowed to ride there?! There were six runners in Heat 19 at Avondale and the Stipendiary Stewards had ample time to interview the other five riders before Matamata on Saturday.
    1 point
  16. I found that one early afternoon at 20/5 s fixed, you must have got it earlier than me!!, it had performed well in Adelaide earlier in the year. There was another one in race 6 at Cranbourne as well General ?? Course and diet stats super and 2nd up record superb. The new weight system will take a while to come into play methinks.... Lots of horses up a notch in grade and weight as well.....but you found one at a price.... Xcellent going!!.
    1 point
  17. napier

    Opie Bosson

    Yes you are talking through your pocket...back him next up - especially if OP is on.
    1 point
  18. puha

    B. Harvey v J. Waddell

    They've had two weeks to sort it out what a joke! Maybe they are busy sorting out positive swabs from 2014 ? NOT
    1 point
  19. Interesting perspective eljay. Firstly let me clarify. Over the years I have backed many beaten runners. They were my bet and I always accept full responsibility for anything I do including my betting. I didn't bet in Tiger Tara's race on Friday so am not speaking via my pocket. My confidence however in Christen Me winning next months NZ Cup increased considerably after watching that race. I appreciate the confidence of some went the other way. Time will tell which perspective is correct. I don't believe it's possible for a woman to be a little bit pregnant lloyd . She is either pregnant or not pregnant. If stable or team driving is a legitimate race tactic then fair enough. We all know what the playing field slopes like and can decide accordingly if we want to play on it. If however it's seen as unethical and against harness racing rules to gain an advantage by a sacrificial lamb stablemate harassing the main threat to the stable winning then surely stable or team driving should be banned? Was Christen Me as the hot fav and likely winner disadvantaged by the eventual winners stablemate that was clearly not driven to obtain the best possible placing? Furthermore in 2015 NZ Harness Racing is that seen as being legal and reasonable? You say yes. I respect your opinion but I feel the correct answer should in fact be a clear no.
    1 point
  20. are you sure you didn't see him - he is ze one dressed like zis
    1 point
  21. jimsmith

    Tiger Tara

    Dubious statements. Let's examine them. You state "Probably not the best drive if you had backed Venus Serena". The less than fully fit mare had a wonderful opportunity to have cover for the last 1400 metres of the race behind live chance Brilliant Strike but was determined to decline that opportunity. Very seldom do horses do that unless they are fully fit and the driver is confident this is the place to be to give their charge the best chance of being in the finish. Venus Serena was a dead duck 600 metres from home and finished well down the track. Gavin Smith has won many races by nose margins. He's a very good judge of timing his run. Despite that fact and the very average run the week before when not asked to work Gavin set the mare a huge task and misjudged winning the race by at least 600 metres. That puts your statement into perspective. In my opinion Gavin did exactly what was needed to up the fitness level of V.S and in doing so helped Tiger Tara in a big way or it was a shocking drive. I favour the former. There is just no room for middle ground on that score. You now seem to think that mile rates are the telling factor in regard to there being stable / team driving or not. I strongly disagree. Venus Serena controlled the tempo of the race outside Christen Me and kept that runner working. You don't need to be up eyeballing the leader in 1.54 mile rates to do that. It's still a month out from the NZ Cup and none of the runners will be nailed down yet and ready for breaking records. Was Venus Serena ready to race like she did and still be in the finish? Her tongue hanging out and the white flag at the 600 says a big NO to that question.
    1 point
  22. Wilma Flintstone

    Tiger Tara

    Gavin has been driving well so the drive was uncharacteristic. Gavin virtually gave his horse no chance, should he have been charged. Would the Australian Stipes have been so lenient???
    1 point
  23. Portfolio

    Opie Bosson

    You make no sense....only a 4yo?? What difference does that make...the fact is a better ride yesterday and he wins...simple as that. He is just as good as those other horses in the field. I like the comments in the paper today from OP. He said......If they had gone along he would have just about won, the last 100m he rocketed to the line and if I had got clear I don't know what might have happened???? He is tracking perfect for next week he said???? His comments say it all.....he thinks he might be lucky to retain the ride on the horse...sack him.....
    1 point
  24. mr_gee

    B. Harvey v J. Waddell

    so what if he done it race day to sam obviously has a be in a bonnet bout something, that shouldn't be swept under the table , yes timing was wrong but if he did it racedaty, there be fur to fly, if hes going be like that hope he sits on the side lie for a while , if he had hurt my horse, in any way that put a jockeys safety in danger i be pissed off to
    1 point
  25. I agree Brodie, not an overly quick time, although i think they ran a very fast lead time. But more often than not i see on this site people bagging drivers for not putting a horse in the race, then when someone does and it doesn't pay off they get ridiculed. Should they have just kept driving this mare quietly and kept going no good? or were they within their rights to have tried something that has worked in the past for that particular horse? I personally like to see horses looked after and hitting the line, but here in NZ our drivers are extremely conservative and i do enjoy watching some competitive driving. Our racing pattern tends to get boring to watch. What i took out of this race is Christian Me is not lengths superior to these horses, he has a few chinks in his armour which is going to result in an exciting race come cup day.
    1 point
  26. No it is a written rule. I do see where your coming from Brodie and iv also argued your view in the room when iv been done for excessive but as eljay said its all to do with SPCA and animal rights groups etc. If your over that 16 hits your pushing shit up hill trying to defend the charge.
    1 point
  27. Just before I compose my email registering a formal complaint requesting a review of the decision about yesterdays total stuff-up, I just want to clarify a couple of points. The Stipe report states that an opinion was sought from the JCA....so were there JCA reps on course or did they ring the bureau and perhaps inadvertently pose the question to the tea-lady or cleaner....or an actual JCA person?. although I strongly believe that the line in the stipes report "there was a delay in the starter declaring a false start" that should have been "game-set-match in regard to the race being voided and all investments refunded. In addition there does not appear to be any record of the 8 competing jockeys being canvassed as there is nothing recorded in the report. ***(by no means am I blaming the starter personally) I can not see anywhere the JCA rep/s that were involved are named,or am I missing something??. As i stated in the original thread this has really done it for me as far as this organisation goes. I have not invested one dollar on NZ racing today as part of my protest, currently I have no confidence in the judicial process should their ruling be necessary. this will remain the situation until I have a response from NZTR/Mr Purcell. Time now to get very serious and complete my email to Mr Purcell, now i can already hear and anticipate some of the responses that you all may have in regard to this!. I intend to request that not only my $50.00 investment on one of the deemed runners be refunded to me BUT any other investments that have been taken from clients in my opinion fraudulently. After all what would they have gained on the 5 unplaced runners? However I will be pointing out to Mr Purcell that since May I have deposited into my account sums totalling $33,716 , virtually half of that sum $14,950 since the beginning of September as I do get a bit more serious in Spring/Summer. ( Happy to provide admin with deposit records, I am not a person who is "full of it") Oh as an aside I have turned over every dollar of that as I was slightly peeved when i was in receipt of the "money laundering" email!!. I am fully prepared for a negative response from NZTR/Mr Purcell , however it will be a valuable exercise to have a confirmation that my investments are not important to them as an organisation to at least review the shabby decision yesterday....I actually do also have a concern for any person who even lost $2.00. Apologies for the ramble but this is actually quite important to me as an avid and passionate follower of NZ racing for many years!!. To clarify the 2 questions, I can not see anywhere the JCA rep/s that were involved are named,or am I missing something??. What would the TAB have gained or held in investments on the 5 unplaced runners? Your input would be appreciated , as I do not want to look like a dick when I send the email!!!
    1 point
  28. Some of what you say is correct Luca. Stable driving has been happening for years. I also recall the days when Roy and Barry had four or five runners in the open class feature for the night that often only had seven or eight runners. I'm sure the connections of horses like Franco Ice and The Bru Czar also remember those days. I never thought Paddy,Tommy and Wolfie were involved but then again my memory may be selective. Jim Smith did the business with trotters and he did have a few results where the roughest of his Mountains got home but they are not machines that race on paper and I never thought of him as a guy who would get involved in unfair advantages via suspect methods. Same applies with Jack Smolenski. That aside Jack is no longer with us and I will always remember him as a man of integrity. I don't think it's too out there for certain owners to be ok if their stable runner is used to help another stable runner win a race if that same favour is returned to them later. The comment you make about stable runners being bracketed has merit. I hear what you're saying about love and passion but try paying the mortgage or trip to Hawaii with that and see what the bank manager and travel agent say to that
    1 point
  29. That is exactly how I saw it. Drivers in outstanding form just don't put in shockers like that. To much of a coincidence that it also just happened to be exactly what Tiger Tara wanted and probably needed and just what the doctor or Geoff ordered for Venus Serena.
    1 point
  30. Isn't that what the actress said to the Bishop?
    1 point
  31. Chestnut

    Opie Bosson

    I think that MK has already shown that he perhaps throws more to HRE's dam line, with HRE's dam being by Secretariat. MK is also out of a Centaine mare. This being he case I think he has quite a bit of middle distance, and staying pedigree. You say that 2000m is short of his best distance, that alone is already way outside of his sire's best distance ... and he's won two at 2400, the NZ and Aust Derby's - I think that alone shows that he is not throwing to HRE's sprinting strengths, but more his grand lines. He does possess a fantastic sprint though - he was like a bullet running from the back yesterday. Kermadec ran his normal race, MK didn't, he wasn't up with leaders ready to unleash that powerful grinding finish so I don't think it was anything to do with the horses he was against being more experienced because he showed he could run them down given the chance, it was purely how the jockey's rode the race, so being up against horses that are seasoned I believe didn't come in to it yesterday. We saw him muscle it out with VSB at Ellerslie, he's got the grit and determination to have it out with any horse in a finish if needs be, he'll keep giving his all, so I don't have any concerns there. I think yesterday's race was pretty pleasing from the view that he showed he could run powerfully from the back, he doesn't need to be in a close up fighting finish to show his best, so that does provide them with a few choices if the race doesn't pan out as they want.
    1 point
  32. You're confusing the stipes with the rules. The latter specifically define what constitutes excessive use of the whip, so if a driver breaks that rule then the stipes have no option but to charge and fine him/her. In this case, Smith even admitted the charge. Using the whip outside the confines of the sulky is a different (and lesser) charge, so there's no inconsistency. And Smith was one of those drivers warned, but not fined, for this offense, so there's also no favouritism. I won't comment on the suggestion that he should have used a metal-lined whip.
    1 point
  33. I lost money on the race too, but I won on the day, so that didn't concern me. But there are a number of things I see wrong with the decision to declare it a valid race. The biggest concern is the precedence it sets. What the decision is saying is that from now on, if a race is a false start, then jockeys should ignore the flags and keep riding as though it is a race. Because now a false start isn't a false start at all (apparently) and if they stop riding they will be doing the owners a disservice.
    1 point
  34. Good on you for following it up. If I had lost on the race I certainly would be. To avoid getting a lot of BS waffle in the response I would suggest you specifically request an answer to the following two questions: 1. Did the starter declare a false start in the race? 2. Given Rule 631 (5), if a false start was indeed declared by the starter, under what rule or provision did the JCA overrule this decision? Unless I'm missing something in the rules I actually think there is a case for the two members members of the JCA to be charged by the RIU as Rule 802 (1) (a) states a person commits a breach of the rules if they act in contravention of or fail to comply with any provision of the rules and based on my reading of the rules they seem to have done that.
    1 point
  35. From The Informant - Dennis Ryan Confusion reigned following the second race at Washdyke today after a false start was declared due to six of the 14 runners being locked in the starting gates. The starter’s assistant positioned 200 metres forward of the start point for the 1200-metre maiden event waved the regulation red flag indicating a false start, but the riders of the eight horses that did break cleanly continued on. First of them across the line was the Chris Johnson-ridden Urban from Strolling Vagabond, Agent Anna, the first three throughout, but with a false start having been declared by the starter, a judicial inquiry was required to sort the matter out. It is understood that Jeff McLaughlin, the RIU steward in charge of the meeting, recommended to the two-person JCA panel that the race be declared void, but after additional submissions were taken from jockeys and trainers involved in the race, the stewards’ recommendation was over-ruled. The race was subsequently declared official and dividends were cleared for payment. Bets were refunded on the affected horses, Feel D’Cash, Intense, Dollyaday, Iona Castle, Hot Property and Velluto, who were ruled non-starters. One trainer far from amused by the outcome was Michael Pitman, co-trainer of Dollyaday, who sent his son Matthew south and watched the live telecast of the race in Christchurch. “How could that be called a race when at least two jockeys quite clearly saw the false start flag being waved and went to pull their mounts up?” he asked. “As a race it was a joke, you’ve only got to look at the time they ran to see that. It was more than a second slower than the first race and nearly two seconds slower than the next. “I actually feel sorry for the stewards when they did the right thing submitting that it should be a non-race, yet they still got over-ruled.” Washdyke is one of a handful of South Island venues still using Caddy style starting gates.
    1 point
  36. pogo(aus)

    Opie Bosson

    mongolian lamb(nz), wok you expect ready next week, no?
    1 point
  37. The stewards report from Matamata tells us mushrooms all we need to know as to why Waddell is not allowed to ride. Anderson makes a valid point about trainers being allowed to carry on presenting horses to race when they await hearings on breaches of rules (O'Sullivan/Scott with 3 horses tested positive for cobalt) whereas Waddell is banned on hearsay. After additional interviews were conducted J Waddell was stood down under Rule 207 from riding engagements today pending further investigations.
    1 point
  38. Yankiwi

    Camera lure at Manawatu

    I do not believe there is any debate to be had about a Steward & who they should be looking after. Yes the decision that had to be made was going to affect both the punter & the trainer/owner, but that's their job to do. It's not the Stewards job to look after anyone involved. It's their job to ensure the rules of greyhound racing are adhered to and enforce the rules when they are not. If a decision was made to "look after" either end of the spectrum, then that in itself would be a huge injustice. Let's have a look at the rule book & assess the decision made impartially, the same job the Steward is required to do. "76. NO RACE - FALSE START 76.1 Should there be an occurrence of any human intervention, mechanical or other defect which has the effect of preventing a Race from being completed or there are other circumstances arising which warrant such action being taken, the Stewards may declare the Race to be a False Start or a No Race." Was a rake being left resting on the boxes, which flung violently as they opened and struck the #8 as it left the boxes a "mechanical or other defect which has the effect of preventing a Race from being completed or there are other circumstances arising which warrant such action being taken"? "76.3 Where the Stewards declare, or are considering whether to declare, a Race to be a False Start or No Race, they shall cause a warning signal to be given and an announcement to be made over the public broadcast system." I wasn't at the track while this race was being held nor was I watching the live broadcast, therefore I have no idea if an announcement was made or not in this instance. If history can be used as the benchmark, I've never heard a warning signal or announcement made if a steward was "considering" to declare a race a false or no start at any greyhound meeting. With that, it's highly unlikely. If no signal or announcement was made & the thought of even considering the race a false start was considered, then the Steward would be in breach of GRNZ rules. Was a warning signal given & an announcement made? "76.9 If, in the opinion of the Stewards, a Greyhound which does not finish in the first three placings was prevented from taking an effective part in a Race owing to the mechanical failure of starting boxes, or is denied a fair start and such occurrence materially prejudiced the chances of that Greyhound (but not where the Greyhound is slow away by its own accord), the Stewards may declare such a dog to be a non-starter." Since the #8 dog shows a 7th place finish for the race, the Steward was of the opinion that it was indeed offered a "fair start". That's their decision to make. However it's not an opinion we must agree with. Was the #8 dog in the race undoubtedly offered the same fair start the other seven runners were?
    1 point
  39. Yankiwi

    Camera lure at Manawatu

    Yes the rake does make contact with the ground with one of the THREE major points around its center of gravity. The handle end of the rake clearly does not make contact with anything, so what force does drive the handle end of the rake so rapidly back towards the starting boxes (reverse of direction) while at the same time the point nearest the dog suddenly increases elevation (reverse of direction) as well? It's obvious, the rake made clear contact with the dog. That contact with the rake tip pushed that tip upwards slightly & towards the winning post which caused the handle to thrust rapidly back toward the boxes. Notice that the handle was moving away from the boxes until the contact with the ground & dog was made. Conclusive evidence of contact with the dog with only the most basic understanding of physics. Fair start? No.
    1 point
  40. Midget

    Funny for Friday

    What's happened there is that Dafid has just whispered in Rupert's ear " your father plays for England and your mother's an Australian "
    1 point
  41. and here is a photo of little Rupert and his good friend Dafid Jones ..
    1 point
  42. Elite Services - good luck, that bloke Greenham is about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike.
    1 point