RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
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Four Corners Aust program

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I'm surprised at the apparent lack of interest in Four Corners program on the thoroughbred industry in Aus. Especially seeing there was so much interest in the Greyhound exposure by the same source not that long ago.

I think at the time I commented your time will come and it is here.

The only difference is I will emapthise with you and not take the good job attitude expressed on here when the" dishlickers copped it"

 

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Haven't seen it myself, but from reading a few posts from other forums it wasn't that bad, and most though the below quote summed it up.

"Four Corners thought they had the Cox Plate of exposes but instead it was closer to a BM58 at Warracknabeal"

Heres a link if anyone wants to see it.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/off-track/9960642

Will watch it myself later

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One thing, at least in Oz every race at every meeting has a financial contribution inc toward horse welfare.....one percent of total prize money! so midweek city races in SYD contribute 400 dollars toward the welfare of all thoroughbreds!......now 10 years ago that was unheard of, so progress......what about NZ? is there a living legends in NZ, a lovely property that rewards the high achievers of the equine world with a worthy retirement?...like they have in MEL........funded in part by public donations........what about the thousands of Kiwi horses that go up to ASIA, are they repatriated back to their owners farms in NZ when the ASIANS are finished with them? who pays?.......there are many Kiwis and Ozzies with a conscience, and part of the sale contract to ASIA is the clause repatriation is mandatory........who polices that? and who checks on the welfare of the retired horses?........I'm very interested in the answers as I'm sure there will be contentious and vicious defenders. There is a temporary imposition in AUS that horse's cannot be repatriated directly into AUS from HK, they must come back via NZ quarantine, and that is hurting the repat program here.

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3 hours ago, premixer said:

Haven't seen it myself, but from reading a few posts from other forums it wasn't that bad, and most though the below quote summed it up.

"Four Corners thought they had the Cox Plate of exposes but instead it was closer to a BM58 at Warracknabeal"

Heres a link if anyone wants to see it.

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/off-track/9960642

Will watch it myself later

Hmmm "wasn't that bad" says that it could have been worse. What was missed?

To be fair people like Leo have been warning about this for a long time now. It would be interesting to see how we fare under the same scrutiny.

Thumbs up to the industry for addressing the whip rules, especially the Ben Hur's

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Living legends on my list to visit one day and I know Kentucky have a version of it with many retired champions. I like to think that if I was lucky enough to race a good one I would set aside some coin to provide for retraining , rehoming or its keep later in life if of course it was not assessed as unsuitable . If I had a big offer for a horse for Singapore or Macau , well that's a tough one. I suppose it's where you are at in life , kids all set up , mortgage gone probably be a no but once in lifetime chance to take chunk out of those bills it's a consideration.  I love racing in Singapore , enjoyed the visits to kranji but got to admit had this nagging dig in my conscience what happens to that poor bugger that's ran last for forth race in a row. I know some are re homed  at riding schools, some end up in  other lower quality racing outposts I believe . It's a tough one alright.

Living legends NZ would be great. Would be  great to know the iron horses like Sir Slick and  Scapolo  of this world live long and happy lives.

 

 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Red Rum said:

Living legends on my list to visit one day and I know Kentucky have a version of it with many retired champions. I like to think that if I was lucky enough to race a good one I would set aside some coin to provide for retraining , rehoming or its keep later in life if of course it was not assessed as unsuitable . If I had a big offer for a horse for Singapore or Macau , well that's a tough one. I suppose it's where you are at in life , kids all set up , mortgage gone probably be a no but once in lifetime chance to take chunk out of those bills it's a consideration.  I love racing in Singapore , enjoyed the visits to kranji but got to admit had this nagging dig in my conscience what happens to that poor bugger that's ran last for forth race in a row. I know some are re homed  at riding schools, some end up in  other lower quality racing outposts I believe . It's a tough one alright.

Living legends NZ would be great. Would be  great to know the iron horses like Sir Slick and  Scapolo  of this world live long and happy lives.

 

 

 

 

RR, Asia is NZ racing's dirty little secret......bloodstock agents and many trainers have gotten rich selling to Asia. Hats off to the beautiful few that repatriated  their horses once their careers ended up there.....the majority were shot and fed to the zoo animals a few years ago, now they are euthanised more humanely. You mention Macau, it used to be the worst offender, now one must wonder and worry for the welfare of horses destined for mainland China......Those that are lucky enough to have responsible former owners in NZ and Australia who inserted a repatriation clause in the sale contract, are just that, lucky......the owners/trainers/breeders and bloodstock agents that sell and export knowingly to that jurisdiction will receive Karma's wrath.....we see it all the time, however they won't accept that. Many of us earn our living from these beautiful creatures, it's upon us to give them the best outcomes we can, as much as it pains us to witness programs like Four Corners that out mal practice and terrible animal treatment by so called human beings, it's necessary to alert the mainstream of the machinations of the racing industry........hopefully the dopers over here in Oz will get what's coming to them, and to hope that a Living Legends is on the agenda of NZRB, plus media gets onto the neglect and cruelty issues omnipresent in NZ......hopefully.

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Agree...there is supposed to be some re-homing programme now run by NZTR - I think one Marty Burns is involved in this -  but I have heard nothing,  nada, zilch,  from any official quarter about retired racehorses or any process thereof.

I take pride in attempting to rehome my retired models in an appropriate and caring environment;  however,  there are some, that for reasons of temperament or injury just aren't suitable,  and euthanasia carried out in a humane and dignified manner is the best option for them.   But even the 'doggers'  vary in their approach,  and I have heard of some who pick up a horse,  indicating that it will be dealt with quickly, only to leave that same horse,  having been rugged and straight from a stable,  lingering in a shitty paddock with no feed or shelter for weeks or longer - or worse,  packed into a container to head to another abbattoir.

I fail to see why the owner of any horse [ bearing in mind to have a horse in training is not a cheap practice ]  cannot make arrangements for a  nice retirement for their charge,  at least for a period of time.

Jack Shaw - well known harness and t/b trainer of some years ago,  and father of vet. John Shaw,  always reckoned a year's retirement with the best of care was the least an old racehorse deserved.

Some of the so-called ' animal welfare' types I would be loath to allow near a horse as well,  just to add to my concern.

 

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2 hours ago, La Zip said:

RR, Asia is NZ racing's dirty little secret......bloodstock agents and many trainers have gotten rich selling to Asia. Hats off to the beautiful few that repatriated  their horses once their careers ended up there.....the majority were shot and fed to the zoo animals a few years ago, now they are euthanised more humanely. You mention Macau, it used to be the worst offender, now one must wonder and worry for the welfare of horses destined for mainland China......Those that are lucky enough to have responsible former owners in NZ and Australia who inserted a repatriation clause in the sale contract, are just that, lucky......the owners/trainers/breeders and bloodstock agents that sell and export knowingly to that jurisdiction will receive Karma's wrath.....we see it all the time, however they won't accept that. Many of us earn our living from these beautiful creatures, it's upon us to give them the best outcomes we can, as much as it pains us to witness programs like Four Corners that out mal practice and terrible animal treatment by so called human beings, it's necessary to alert the mainstream of the machinations of the racing industry........hopefully the dopers over here in Oz will get what's coming to them, and to hope that a Living Legends is on the agenda of NZRB, plus media gets onto the neglect and cruelty issues omnipresent in NZ......hopefully.

Totally agree LZ and PR. With these days of social media it's a lot easier to find out the dark side. In Nov 2014 I read an article on Stuff , it was titled NZ racing not cruel to horses ,(rechecked still on computer if google but Iam a technical dinosaur so cannot link it) it was in light of the sad events surrounding that years Melb Cup. Now I've been following this sport since backing Soba to win the Stewards Cup at Goodwood in 1982 and I was a wee bit young to bet then , however as  a Natonal Hunt fan my  father and I travelled the UK visiting many courses, I know what can happen in racing and it's not nice at times especially over the sticks. Anyway this article stated from a spokesman for NZTR who was named , that it's more dangerous to run the New York marathon and only four horses died on track in that past year. I thought no , that's misleading , as I backed two horses one day at Ashburton that year and both those tragically died one inside the final 100 metres and one that resulted in serious injuries to the poor jockey. So two more for entire year cannot be right .I went through only three months of stripes reports and even then had totally discredited those figures put to general public. 

I e mailed NZTR and asked if they would correct this grossly misleading article . Basically got e mail back that was rather rude like it's not my business. Maybe not but I buy the paper and you misled me.To there annoyance I pushed it. They eventually admitted figures completely wrong and sent me NZTR figures and a RIU spreadsheet detailing fatalities. Investigation 101 cross check evidence , I found only a few on both lists , some missing , basically embarrassing bookkeeping,  untidy in the extreme. I e mail asking if correction to press would be the honest thing to do. No answer to that , but said basically upping their game by getting Waikato Uni students in to fill in forms on track in cases of injury. I decided because I love racing and respect the hard working workers not to e mail the Press and embarrass the industry. I contacted the  RIU a few years later and got a reassureing friendly reply that they have handle on it . I don't know do they ?

I suppose they can at a flick of a computer keyboard tell me the full details of every horse fatality on the track this season. 

More dangerous to run  NY marathon give me a break. I researched the NY marathon it is quite safe although not for likes of me , 35 kms too far for this old footballers knees.

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You seem to be confusing 2 separate issues Red Rum. One is injury/fatality while racing and the other is extermination through not running fast enough!

As for the NY marathon, the organisers are not going to validate your research by reporting the 6-8 runners who either drop dead on the course or in hospital each year. Privacy concerns.

In my experience horses are powerful but fragile, skittish animals who have accidents wherever they are homed. I have unfortunately lost horses through injury whilst they have been kept on immaculate properties, including my own, with "safe" fencing, "safe" topography and "safe"attendants.

I would venture to suggest that well cared for horses in stables or on racetracks have better survival statistics than roaming packs of Kaimanawa horses careering around the treacherous terrain of the central plateau, kicking the shit out of each other at mating time and suffering miserable deaths from traumatic injury.

So I would suggest there is no upside in going after decent people whose horses unfortunately occasionally sustain injuries while racing, but certainly pursue the morality of some of the "monied" players for whom "wastage" is of no consequence

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1 hour ago, chevy86 said:

You seem to be confusing 2 separate issues Red Rum. One is injury/fatality while racing and the other is extermination through not running fast enough!

As for the NY marathon, the organisers are not going to validate your research by reporting the 6-8 runners who either drop dead on the course or in hospital each year. Privacy concerns.

In my experience horses are powerful but fragile, skittish animals who have accidents wherever they are homed. I have unfortunately lost horses through injury whilst they have been kept on immaculate properties, including my own, with "safe" fencing, "safe" topography and "safe"attendants.

I would venture to suggest that well cared for horses in stables or on racetracks have better survival statistics than roaming packs of Kaimanawa horses careering around the treacherous terrain of the central plateau, kicking the shit out of each other at mating time and suffering miserable deaths from traumatic injury.

So I would suggest there is no upside in going after decent people whose horses unfortunately occasionally sustain injuries while racing, but certainly pursue the morality of some of the "monied" players for whom "wastage" is of no consequence

No reported 6 to 8 deaths per year in NY marathon , that may make news I would suggest having runners dragged off  every few miles , plus the death notices each year and any coroner enquiries. Having many a year worked the London one with thousands of runners I can tell you the death rate isn't that many and it makes the news on the odd occasion it happens .Up to 8 people dying in a marathon run in a big city is pretty serious with lots of crying family members.Anyway that's by the by . No issues with what you say about the fragility of horses, Ive been lucky enough to have decent share in a good bread and butter one and a slowish one both injured on gallops with no fault of anyone ending careers. Both happily had injury treatment paid for out of the pot of prizemoney and fees followed by second chances outside racing and I will be back into it again when iam an empty nester..  I really just had an issue with the completely wrong figures put around , kind of look at us we doing so much we are better than the rest when figures totally wrong. Even clearly wrong from own stipes reports. It misled people who read it. The industry has to be open, accurate  and transparent or it will lose the public. Animal rights lobby in Australia lot more militant than here  so industry has to be ready when questioned. I try to explain to friends from time to time how well cared for the vast majority of racehorses  are .When it boils down to it I would much rather come back , if indeed that's the way it works as a racehorse rather than beef cattle or pig  on pork farm, zero retirement options there. The industry leaders need to have the backs of those employed in it.Chevy I am as far from anti racing as you are no doubt and without it I'd have a huge chunk of my enjoyment in life gone.

 

 

 

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I Viewed the program this morning.Then again this evening.

Most on here at RaceCafe  will know I am nearly 70. I have not raced 69 horses.

I have  been an owner trainer.

I have had wonderful horses "trained"  by my brother ( Lee )  and my other "brother" Bob Autridge ,Syd Weatherly, Sam Brosnan, young DJ O'Sullivan and Nigel Landers and Sylvia and Paddy Kaye, Graham Andrew.

I owned a Champion Greyhound called "Revel's Command " trained by Peter and Lois Henley.

When he broke a leg he was shot.

I may have had unregistered shares in an Alvaro colt or two with Alan Jones and Doug Fisher.

They all treated their horses as House guests. In the days before Bookabach and BNB 

The horses had to earn their keep but were innocent until proved guilty.

Some under performers went to the Riding for the Disabled,

others to Eventing people.

some went to Gisbourne as station hacks.

Some went to Macau.

Some had a  trip to Bombay. 

The clips from the Four Corners program:

Horses being led from Cars  ? Haven't we all done that ? But not in this day and age. 

Tongue Ties :                              Should any trainer have the right to pull out their partner's tongue 

                                                      and wrap a silk stocking around the protruding "Zunge ".?

                                                      If it is consentual between partners good on them.

                                                      Don't do it to your horse unless it consents.

Spurs and Hooks:                      Watch  : Chris Johnson , Willo ,Zac, Joey ,Franky ,Lane 

                                                      never move their feet. Thank God spurs are banned.

 

More soon.

 

 

                                                      

.

 

 

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Gina Lee Schick does a great job with her reschooling and rehoming of OTT horses, many of them going on to be high class eventers, showjumpers, and showhacks, including horses coming back from Hong Kong. They range from unraced through to the very successful. 

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