RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
MiniJax

Silver collar heats

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I remember the same feeling of disappointment last year, surprised at the inability again to get 3+ heats for this great race. And it seems a shame that every dog nommed cant have a crack I.e. Wee Meredith for GOM...coasted to the line last start, once in a lifetime chance at this race for some dogs/trainers and no go you're number 10.

Shame.

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1 hour ago, Eagle Eye said:

Agree should have 3 heats all get a go as there is hardly a stayer here, the distance race should be 720 the race would get more noms for sure get some speed into the race

Why should it be 720 for 

There are alot of stayers in the fields infact there are not many dogs that havent been in the money over 600 plus i think there is one out of 20

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Do you mean there are no stayers in the heats Wasa or in NZ/

It's a strange set of circumstances we have in NZ, where everyone wants to see staying races but we never get any. I said once before on here that the worst thing to happen for a NZ breeder is to breed a good stayer, as there will be no races for it. If you take a look at the heats the majority of the dogs entered are Aussie imports which makes the NZ standing in stayers bleak.

There are allsorts of anomalies that could contribute . The early influx of imports were mostly sprint based and they made up the basis of most of the breeding stock we have in NZ. Try and find one of the early NZ consistent strong staying lines and you will struggle but when you do find them they contain silver collar winners.

The lack of stayers is  worsened by some who have had the chance to help it flourish not doing so. Imagine if you stumbled across a family that was capable of leaving very good staying stock. What would you do? Breed race, sell, lease and ensure the staying culture increased or breed off the select few you choose and send the rest of the stock to GAP even though people would jump at the chance to get involved with the line, just  so you  have the market cornered.? The latter happens and the crazy bit is they are left with no fields for the stayers they do breed. Go figure the logic in that.

    Trainers of today generally do not have the skills or understanding to train stayers which is understandable as they have often not had to try. It is a lot easier to just keep putting the same dogs in the short distance races twice each week in their same area's  which gives us the oh so predicable lackluster fields we witness each week.

Wasa's suggestion of bringing the staying races back to 720 m is not the answer, it may have an immediate effect of getting an extra couple but that is all. Simple fact most of the stayers in NZ have only proven themselves up to 650m so no one really knows if they are actually stayers.

As for Meredith she is a slow dog who looks to me as if she would run 1000m (not sure how fast though) We entered her in the collar not with any idea of even being able to qualify but it would have been the only opportunity to see if she actually can run past 700m alright. No big deal for us but it make me wonder what would happen if Swift Fantasy or her like ( is there such a thing) arrived on the scene as a maiden today. Probably would never have got going.

I said a few years ago that staying racing is doomed and we should celebrate what we have in the gene pool. I was hoping I would be proved wrong but I was right

 

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1 minute ago, GOM said:

Do you mean there are no stayers in the heats Wasa or in NZ/

It's a strange set of circumstances we have in NZ, where everyone wants to see staying races but we never get any. I said once before on here that the worst thing to happen for a NZ breeder is to breed a good stayer, as there will be no races for it. If you take a look at the heats the majority of the dogs entered are Aussie imports which makes the NZ standing in stayers bleak.

There are allsorts of anomalies that could contribute . The early influx of imports were mostly sprint based and they made up the basis of most of the breeding stock we have in NZ. Try and find one of the early NZ consistent strong staying lines and you will struggle but when you do find them they contain silver collar winners.

The lack of stayers is  worsened by some who have had the chance to help it flourish not doing so. Imagine if you stumbled across a family that was capable of leaving very good staying stock. What would you do? Breed race, sell, lease and ensure the staying culture increased or breed off the select few you choose and send the rest of the stock to GAP even though people would jump at the chance to get involved with the line, just  so you  have the market cornered.? The latter happens and the crazy bit is they are left with no fields for the stayers they do breed. Go figure the logic in that.

    Trainers of today generally do not have the skills or understanding to train stayers which is understandable as they have often not had to try. It is a lot easier to just keep putting the same dogs in the short distance races twice each week in their same area's  which gives us the oh so predicable lackluster fields we witness each week.

Wasa's suggestion of bringing the staying races back to 720 m is not the answer, it may have an immediate effect of getting an extra couple but that is all. Simple fact most of the stayers in NZ have only proven themselves up to 650m so no one really knows if they are actually stayers.

As for Meredith she is a slow dog who looks to me as if she would run 1000m (not sure how fast though) We entered her in the collar not with any idea of even being able to qualify but it would have been the only opportunity to see if she actually can run past 700m alright. No big deal for us but it make me wonder what would happen if Swift Fantasy or her like ( is there such a thing) arrived on the scene as a maiden today. Probably would never have got going.

I said a few years ago that staying racing is doomed and we should celebrate what we have in the gene pool. I was hoping I would be proved wrong but I was right

 

Hi GOM I love stayers especially free running front runners and the very few that come from last to win, but there are only a handful that can run time over the extreme distance races in NZ, the field this year only has may be 2 or 3 real chances saying that I wouldn’t mind owning them all as there are some nice doggy’s in the heats. Cheers

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14 hours ago, Joe blogs said:

Why should it be 720 for 

There are alot of stayers in the fields infact there are not many dogs that havent been in the money over 600 plus i think there is one out of 20

Hi Joe Blogs just my thoughts as nearly all the races in Aus are over 720 as the extreme distance as I think and only my thoughts as what I have seen that this distance can be got by a few, only a few strong 520 doggy's and would entice more trainers to have a go, For instance AC big free running Avenger Bale for one, many a dog like him may just get 720 bowling along out in front, but 779 or so is a big ask two weeks in a row only my thoughts, surely more trainers would have ago over 720 cheers WB

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On 5/30/2018 at 2:59 PM, modest mouse said:

 

Dogs in Pams name, I believe. Just leave the Schofields alone, they have enough to deal with.

You seem to be in the know mouse, so does that mean Pam will be training the dogs from the 8th?  

P.s who is Pam?  Schofield’s wife?

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26 minutes ago, Betting man said:

You seem to be in the know mouse, so does that mean Pam will be training the dogs from the 8th?  

P.s who is Pam?  Schofield’s wife?

Haha...it will be like Christmas to everyone that is worried about other people's business....what is going to happen is to do with grnz decision on who can train....and really there is nothing anyone can do when it does come out......we as licensed people have been sold out by our own clubs on having a say and what we think no longer matters...

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7 hours ago, Betting man said:

You seem to be in the know mouse, so does that mean Pam will be training the dogs from the 8th?  

P.s who is Pam?  Schofield’s wife?

Yes Pam is Dennis' wife & no she wont be training the dogs. From what I understand & have been told is that they have found a trainer & they are coming in & taking over on Monday.

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10 hours ago, Gary Sharp said:

Yes Pam is Dennis' wife & no she wont be training the dogs. From what I understand & have been told is that they have found a trainer & they are coming in & taking over on Monday.

Thanks for that Gary, with futures betting open for the silver collar I think a change of trainer should be made public - Trip to eden is a class dog &  I for one would climb on to the value should a trainer of the ilk of Fayhey or Adcock take it over! 

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19 hours ago, Gary Sharp said:

Yes Pam is Dennis' wife & no she wont be training the dogs. From what I understand & have been told is that they have found a trainer & they are coming in & taking over on Monday.

Hmmm the O’regans? Or

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12 hours ago, Betting man said:

Thanks for that Gary, with futures betting open for the silver collar I think a change of trainer should be made public - Trip to eden is a class dog &  I for one would climb on to the value should a trainer of the ilk of Fayhey or Adcock take it over! 

From what I have been told it is someone coming in from Aussie to take of the kennels as a trainer

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On 6/1/2018 at 4:08 PM, Hound Fan said:

Haha...it will be like Christmas to everyone that is worried about other people's business....what is going to happen is to do with grnz decision on who can train....and really there is nothing anyone can do when it does come out......we as licensed people have been sold out by our own clubs on having a say and what we think no longer matters...

Generally I don’t give a flying duck who trains the dogs Houndy,  I don’t know the guy and I never bet on his dogs but I have had (for me) a substantial bet in the collar final so think the trainer change for  Trip to eden should be public.

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