RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
rdytdy

Trentham Gold Cup

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8 minutes ago, Insider said:

The idiots need to move some horses through the grades. 

It wont effect those horses chances as they will still racing against each other!

Or have I got it wrong

I don't think you've got it wrong Insider but it's a catch 22. Firstly, how or why should 'the idiots' move horses through the grades if they haven't earned it and secondly if they move horses through the grades by the time they win three races they're at the top of the handicaps and in danger of being weighted out of things. The grading system is a joke.

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12 minutes ago, Insider said:

The idiots need to move some horses through the grades. 

It wont effect those horses chances as they will still racing against each other!

Or have I got it wrong

I think it is not so much moving horses through the grades but not letting them to drop back down a grade. How can you have a horse that is won 8 races in a rating 65 grade. A rating 65 grade cant drop back to madiens so then why do the other grades let the horse drop back. Rating 65 gets drops backs and madiens going up so of course it is top heavy. Once you leave a grade then you should not be able to go back.  The 75 85 and opens are often light in numbers so there isnt much of a chance for a horse constintley missing out on a start

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5 hours ago, rdytdy said:

The open handicap at Trentham on Saturday the Trentham Gold Cup over 2100m has attracted only 5 noms today, the highest rated of these being R77.  :(

They dont cater for the rating 75 stayers you have to wait 4 to 5 weeks to get a race in that grade so you have no choice

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TRENTHAM GOLD CUP                              OPN HCP 2100m - $35,000 = 5 NOMS
NORTH ISLAND CHALLENGE STAKES     OPN HCP 1400m - $35,000 = 6 NOMS

COUNTIES             OPN HCP 1600m - $35,000 = 4 NOMS
COUNTIES            OPN HCP 1200m - $35,000 = 8 NOMS

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23 hours ago, Blue said:

I don't think you've got it wrong Insider but it's a catch 22. Firstly, how or why should 'the idiots' move horses through the grades if they haven't earned it and secondly if they move horses through the grades by the time they win three races they're at the top of the handicaps and in danger of being weighted out of things. The grading system is a joke.

Blue, they have earnt it, that’s the trouble. As army says, they keep dropping back multiple winners thus cluttering up everything. 

Now Bruce Sherwin is a very intelligent guy, very experienced in all facets of thoughbred racing, especially Hong Kong and Macau.

 

Come in Big Dog.

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59 minutes ago, army said:

I think it is not so much moving horses through the grades but not letting them to drop back down a grade. How can you have a horse that is won 8 races in a rating 65 grade. A rating 65 grade cant drop back to madiens so then why do the other grades let the horse drop back. Rating 65 gets drops backs and madiens going up so of course it is top heavy. Once you leave a grade then you should not be able to go back.  The 75 85 and opens are often light in numbers so there isnt much of a chance for a horse constintley missing out on a start

Crazy system at present we are most likely to race our horse which likely to be On the ballot in its own grade out of its grade as it’s the only option to get a start. Maybe they need the odd rating 65 race that is limited to 2 wins max ?

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22 hours ago, Insider said:

Blue, they have earnt it, that’s the trouble. As army says, they keep dropping back multiple winners thus cluttering up everything. 

Now Bruce Sherwin is a very intelligent guy, very experienced in all facets of thoughbred racing, especially Hong Kong and Macau

Come in Big Dog.

There is pretty much no relationship between the NZ rating system and that in Hong Kong. Chalk and cheese.

The HK rating system is designed to make racing competitive, entertaining and attractive to punters.

The kiwi one is designed for the opposite.

I'm not sure that Bruce Sherwin had much influence on the rating system here. It was designed by Greg Carpenter under significant influence I suspect from the big breeders primarily and is totally useless, I agree.

Just have a look at the first race in HK tomorrow. Shock horror. There's a weight spread of 9kgs.

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I remember when these races especially the NI Challenge stakes were good races...now they are reduced to second rate winter Hcp's shows what idea the powers that be have for tradition!!! They dont care about anything except the sausage rolls and their big fat salaries....:rolleyes:

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1 minute ago, scooby3051 said:

I remember when these races especially the NI Challenge stakes were good races...now they are reduced to second rate winter Hcp's shows what idea the powers that be have for tradition!!! They dont care about anything except the sausage rolls and their big fat salaries....:rolleyes:

One big problem we have compared to Australia is no respect for iconic names. The Challenge Stakes used to be a major race, I remember Grey Way racing in it, against a young filly I think. Every weekend we see races with iconic names all over Australia, even at minor meetings, whereas in NZ we don't bother.

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12 hours ago, puha said:

Crazy system at present we are most likely to race our horse which likely to be On the ballot in its own grade out of its grade as it’s the only option to get a start. Maybe they need the odd rating 65 race that is limited to 2 wins max ?

If you think it is bad in the NI try racing a 65 horse in the south. A couple of weeks ago they balloted and eliminated 12 horses from a rating 65 at Ashburton when they could easily have run an extra race. Pointless racing 65s for $10,000 if they refuse to split them to get horses through the grades. Then at Riccarton last week we had the crazy situation of 5 and 7 horses racing in two $35,000 open races and heaps being balloted from 65 grades. 

A major problem is the allocation of stakes money. Those same 5 and 7 horses at Riccarton would have raced for $30,000. All of the other non maiden races could have $2,500 taken off them as well and that would have provided enough money to run a $20,000 2yo race. I would like to know what half-wit thought it was a good idea for 65s to run for $22,500 rather than $20,000. That money could have been put to much better use.

It all comes back to the industry being run by outsiders with absolutely no feel for racing and an inability to get the basics right. And my god, most of the programmes are so boring. With all of the 3yos winning  maidens at the moment perhaps Riccarton could have put on a 3yo 1,200m rather than wasting $35,000 for 5 open milers. Give then something to aspire to. But oh no, we didn't used to do that in the 70s, no need to change things so dramatically now.

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15 hours ago, Baz (NZ) said:

TRENTHAM GOLD CUP                              OPN HCP 2100m - $35,000 = 5 NOMS
NORTH ISLAND CHALLENGE STAKES     OPN HCP 1400m - $35,000 = 6 NOMS

COUNTIES             OPN HCP 1600m - $35,000 = 4 NOMS
COUNTIES            OPN HCP 1200m - $35,000 = 8 NOMS

There are about 7 races on at the mid-week Gold Coast Meeting today, all have AUD$25,000 Stakes. 

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Gee if they are going to scrap a racecourse maybe Trentham should be the first to go ? Aging infrastructure , not many horses trained on track , small fields usually, valuable land . Ticks all the boxes.

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3 minutes ago, puha said:

Gee if they are going to scrap a racecourse maybe Trentham should be the first to go ? Aging infrastructure , not many horses trained on track , small fields usually, valuable land . Ticks all the boxes.

It's a wonderful summer course though. 

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7 hours ago, Tauhei Notts said:

I think the race name should be the "Trentham Hack Gold Cup"

I remember , as do you TN, way back in the late 60s- early 70's when we didn't really know what PC was but they dropped the 'Hack' grade because of the connotations of the word. I worked for Ron Manning (Tudor Park Stud) who couldn't get a start in a maiden for a horse so he ended up winning an intermediate race. Then he couldn't get an intermediate start when he ran out of form so he ran him in the Te Awamutu Cup which he won at 100-1. If lower grade races are full you've got to programme races for them because they have the numbers to keep the industry alive if they're looked after.

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Blue, yes I am that old.  So old that I remember when they used to run the Trial Plate on the second day of Trentham's winter meeting.  It was the only maiden race at Trentham all year.  So they put on a maiden race this Saturday and get eight acceptors!!

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Did not the mighty Ill Tempo win this race, what on earth is happening there in NZ?....for Gods sake, that's what happens I suppose when you flog off all those wonderful young colts, but then again when you offer peanuts as prize money you kill off the incentive to go through the grades.......Aus racing is richer for the poorness of NZ racing, in every way.

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