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Franco Ice

Waipuk Jump outs

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The results from the jump outs  a fortnight ago were submitted to NZTR as required. 

 

The results from today will be typed up and sent through tomorrow 

Note that there have never been results for any Awapuni jump outs ever?

Brings up an interesting point though. There is no format required for these in the information required from NZTR. They don’t require riders to be listed, or times to be taken, so one horse could have the heavy stable track rider on and another a jockey with a 20 kg swing in the weights. They are very subjective in their interpretation 

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Which really does give punters a lack of confidence betting on CD races, especially maiden and R65 races. Just look at Levin's last Jumpout on March 14- about 130 horses went round and with no vision available, how does a punter assess the form properly? There have been numerous cases in the last few months of horses winning after placing in Jumpouts. I'd suggest, many have just given up and look elsewhere where they have more confidence in the form. Problem could easily be solved by NZTR making it a requirement to video the last 400m with even a cell phone, which would be quite adequate, if running any jumpouts. Then there's a handy site called Youtube some punters may have heard about to be able to view them on.

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1 hour ago, Patiti said:

Why worry about jump outs at all. They shouldn't have to be recorded at all. Trials I can understand but jump outs???????????????????

Patiti, there are two types of jump outs in operation around the country. 

For example the Levin ones are the equivalent of trials as are those in Hawke’s Bay and Taranaki. These ones are open to all comers from what I can gather. 

The Taranaki and Hawke’s Bay are like that because official trials are not held in those areas and the Levin ones as a service and money making I presume. 

The Cambridge ones are a different matter, as they are usually in-house (horses from the same stable) and only designed to teach the horse to jump out.  

That is as I understand it.

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4 hours ago, Insider said:

Patiti, there are two types of jump outs in operation around the country. 

For example the Levin ones are the equivalent of trials as are those in Hawke’s Bay and Taranaki. These ones are open to all comers from what I can gather. 

The Taranaki and Hawke’s Bay are like that because official trials are not held in those areas and the Levin ones as a service and money making I presume. 

The Cambridge ones are a different matter, as they are usually in-house (horses from the same stable) and only designed to teach the horse to jump out.  

That is as I understand it.

I would disagree - the Hastings and Waipukurau Jumpouts are very in-house, done out of caddy gates in the case of Waipukurau  that serve their purpose and but are sometimes outside horses, but normally just Waipukurau and Hastings trained  

The gates and day are run by the local committee who have given up work time to volunteer to help.  Indeed giving back to the racing industry, because they have something lacking in racing - passion  

Several heats can have three horses from one stable - only 4 horse heats - and a variance of riders.  Both clubs are offering a service to local trainers to get horses fit for upcoming assignments and the reporting of results should be taken with caution. 

Levin is certainly more structured with bigger heats, and in 90% of the cases you would easily recognise all of the names of the riders.  Not so for other junpouts where trackwork riders are entrusted with getting the naughty ones going, or failing to attract race day riders to attend, a great network of track riders and their trainers work together to get the day to work  

In HB Holding Jumpouts is a commitment by the clubs to give trainers an opportunity to gallop horses for fitness and education.  

Three heats of jumpers yesterday over 1600m at Waipukurau - invaluable to the trainers getting horses ready for winter, the only interest in it is their names. 

If genuinely interested anyone is more than welcome to attend any jumpout and publish the information as they see fit. 

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8 hours ago, Patiti said:

Why worry about jump outs at all. They shouldn't have to be recorded at all. Trials I can understand but jump outs???????????????????

Fair point Patiti. Most are there just for educational purposes I suppose. Maybe if it was compulsory for every horse to start an official trial, then that is another way of getting round it for first starters.

Huey and Patiti, if you had known the following, would you have had a bet?

March 14th Levin Jumpout form:

Ozil finished full of running just in behind the placegetters - won last Saturday at $51 with bookies and knocked 99% of punters out of Pick 6.

Baxstreet Boy won under double wraps - won 2 weeks later at Wanganui when heavily backed.

Dark Princess was hard held just behind the first two in her heat- races in race 6 today

Sweepstake never touched in her jumpout bolting and goes out  favourite today in race 4

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1 hour ago, NeilD said:

Fair point Patiti. Most are there just for educational purposes I suppose. Maybe if it was compulsory for every horse to start an official trial, then that is another way of getting round it for first starters.

Huey and Patiti, if you had known the following, would you have had a bet?

March 14th Levin Jumpout form:

Ozil finished full of running just in behind the placegetters - won last Saturday at $51 with bookies and knocked 99% of punters out of Pick 6.

Baxstreet Boy won under double wraps - won 2 weeks later at Wanganui when heavily backed.

Dark Princess was hard held just behind the first two in her heat- races in race 6 today

Sweepstake never touched in her jumpout bolting and goes out  favourite today in race 4

Neil your only concern is the punters as that’s your thing. Those of us that pay all the costs for producing the horses to bet on appreciate jumpouts as they are usually local so less travelling and cheaper than official trials .Also they are such a great tool in teaching horses about the starting gates in a reasonably relaxed environment.

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And that's how it should be Puha. Costs need to be kept down for owners. A simple thing like posting the last 400 metres of jumpouts I'm sure would increase turnover which is going to in turn increase returns to owners. At the moment I know it must be reducing turnover.  If we can do a lot of little things that aren't going to cost a lot of money, then collectively we are all better off. Remember when we had poor quality replays of races and trials - no last 600 metres? That has all changed now and things like that all give punters the info they need to have the confidence to have a bet and hopefully win and keep turning it over with a bit left over to keep the wife happy.

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32 minutes ago, puha said:

Neil your only concern is the punters as that’s your thing. Those of us that pay all the costs for producing the horses to bet on appreciate jumpouts as they are usually local so less travelling and cheaper than official trials .Also they are such a great tool in teaching horses about the starting gates in a reasonably relaxed environment.

Neil is too modest to say it Puha but he has raced horses and loves the industry for what it is - so to say that punters are his only concern is wrong.

The rest of your points about keeping costs down are of course correct - having a video available is not contrary to that. Good luck with your horses

 

Col

 

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2 hours ago, NeilD said:

Fair point Patiti. Most are there just for educational purposes I suppose. Maybe if it was compulsory for every horse to start an official trial, then that is another way of getting round it for first starters.

Huey and Patiti, if you had known the following, would you have had a bet?

March 14th Levin Jumpout form:

Ozil finished full of running just in behind the placegetters - won last Saturday at $51 with bookies and knocked 99% of punters out of Pick 6.

Baxstreet Boy won under double wraps - won 2 weeks later at Wanganui when heavily backed.

Dark Princess was hard held just behind the first two in her heat- races in race 6 today

Sweepstake never touched in her jumpout bolting and goes out  favourite today in race 4

If you couldn't find Baxstreet Boy, Dark Princess & Sweepstake on the punt in those fields you shouldn't be punting. W

Would you really have backed Ozil off a jump out win in that field? 

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4 minutes ago, Huey said:

If you couldn't find Baxstreet Boy, Dark Princess & Sweepstake on the punt in those fields you shouldn't be punting. W

Would you really have backed Ozil off a jump out win in that field? 

so whats your point Huey ?

This info has no use at all for punters ? The powers that be shouldn't simply fix this for those who would use it ?

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17 minutes ago, Huey said:

If you couldn't find Baxstreet Boy, Dark Princess & Sweepstake on the punt in those fields you shouldn't be punting. W

Would you really have backed Ozil off a jump out win in that field? 

The point is some would have backed Ozil if the heat was visible, won good money and re-invested, and that is the name of the game isn't it- turnover. Instead, Trackside viewers find out a few minutes before the race it has gone ok in the Jumpouts, a little too late for those invested in the early quaddie. More punters get frustrated with the lack of basic information and look elsewhere to invest their spare money. Melbourne have got their act together here with updated vision of jumpouts. The philosophy should be ' If the information can give punters an excuse to invest, then find a way to show it.' Something akin to Hong Kong where they know the importance of doing just that. Racing.com now have the interviews with the winning riders after most races added on to the replays- that doesn't cost much to do but the information must be generating punter confidence and turnover. 

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3 hours ago, chelseacol said:

Neil is too modest to say it Puha but he has raced horses and loves the industry for what it is - so to say that punters are his only concern is wrong.

The rest of your points about keeping costs down are of course correct - having a video available is not contrary to that. Good luck with your horses

 

Col

 

Yeah fair call .But likesaid there’s nothing stopping anyone popping down and videoing .Those at our local jumpouts are there for the education and safe running of the jumpouts  and generally theirs only enough people to cover that aspect .

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2 hours ago, NeilD said:

The point is some would have backed Ozil if the heat was visible, won good money and re-invested, and that is the name of the game isn't it- turnover. Instead, Trackside viewers find out a few minutes before the race it has gone ok in the Jumpouts, a little too late for those invested in the early quaddie. More punters get frustrated with the lack of basic information and look elsewhere to invest their spare money. Melbourne have got their act together here with updated vision of jumpouts. The philosophy should be ' If the information can give punters an excuse to invest, then find a way to show it.' Something akin to Hong Kong where they know the importance of doing just that. Racing.com now have the interviews with the winning riders after most races added on to the replays- that doesn't cost much to do but the information must be generating punter confidence and turnover. 

I agree punters should be given the utmost  info for punting purposes. I think most clubs would oblige in providing where possible.

However I have to agree with Puha, it's yet another job that volunteers have to find the time & resources to do amongst organising the Ambulance, vet,gate staff,caretaker, someone to do the entries and make up the fields , ensuring there are enough riders there to hold the event ,put the track back etc. By all means you should have expectations of clubs with full time staff, but those clubs that are the lifeblood of this game please cut some slack.

 

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Thanks Neil for your sage advice as always. As a punter I share your sentiments wholeheartedly.

Actually in this case its for the syndicate who own a horse who has won at the two most recent Waipuk jumpouts. Call it what you like but some of them would just be stoked to see her name up as winning something. 

Still no reply from NZTR.

 

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Franco Ice: and wouldn't it be great if those owners could see actual footage of their pride and joy win.

Richie: Yes, it does tend to rub punters up the wrong way. To be fair though, I think Bevan mentioned it earlier in the day in his race card preview and all the presenters can do is report known info or info they may have been told or seen for themselves. I'm surprised the Bookies don't demand jumpout vision as they get burnt often, although they do clean up off misplaced plunges at times too!

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1 hour ago, NeilD said:

I have many responses to that but what's the point. If clubs really wanted to do it they would have done it by now. In the meantime, stuff the punter.

Have you ever run a set of jumpouts Neil or been on a committee at a Club full of volunteers?

If it means that much to you why not come up with a sponsorship agreement for clubs whereby they can video these jumpouts?

Be careful what you wish for , they are not the punting nirvana you make them out to be.

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58 minutes ago, Franco Ice said:

Thanks Neil for your sage advice as always. As a punter I share your sentiments wholeheartedly.

Actually in this case its for the syndicate who own a horse who has won at the two most recent Waipuk jumpouts. Call it what you like but some of them would just be stoked to see her name up as winning something. 

Still no reply from NZTR.

 

Maybe Franco Ice trainer could of recorded for his owners since they’d of likely been in a position too? Neil since you make a living from a tipping site (which is good ) and you are so keen on getting jumpout footage from various areas maybe you could pay someone in each area to do so as it would just be a business cost ?

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46 minutes ago, richie said:

What really annoys me is that sometimes the presenters know these results but like Ozil they tell us either 1minute before they jump ,after most people have bet,or not until race has finished.

 

How is it any different to a presenter giving the nod for a horse his rider is on after the race has been run and won happens all the time.

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18 minutes ago, Franco Ice said:

Puha, you missed my point, I'm not fussed about the video, I'm pissed at NZTR for not putting the simple results up.

I realise that which I understand.It just went abit of topic with the calls for videos.All the best with your horse.

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