RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Huey

NZRacing Site

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Just an idea for the NZracing site I wonder if it's possible to Hyperlink the horses in their news articles to their Performance/Breeding Record on the NZracing site or at the very least have the breeding of the horse.

Don't know if anyone else would find this useful and might not be possible but just a suggestion.

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4 hours ago, Huey said:

Just an idea for the NZracing site I wonder if it's possible to Hyperlink the horses in their news articles to their Performance/Breeding Record on the NZracing site or at the very least have the breeding of the horse.

Don't know if anyone else would find this useful and might not be possible but just a suggestion.

great idea Huey

 

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Another idea for the NZ Racing site.

Edit the race replay videos so that they start just before the race starts (like they do on the Aussie sites).  I certainly appreciate the the fact that the video replays are available but the elapsed time before the race start varies markedly from race to race.  How hard is it to crop the videos to a consistent start point.

I politely emailed them this suggestion but never heard back, and nothing has changed.

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4 minutes ago, hesi said:

TC, try 

Caroline Rosanowski

caroline.rosanowski@nzracing.co.nz

I asked her about the wagering turnover and meeting figs, and she got back to me each time with answers

But did you get them? :mellow:

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I am rather intrigued why you continually go on and on about not getting them Hesi. I have often wondered what significance or purpose are they to you if you did get them? The Annual Reports show the total turnover figures for each season.  

To help me understand do have any skin in the game? 

How many horses do you currently have in work or spelling?

How many broodmares in the paddock? 

Are you on any committee's to do with racing ie clubs, owners, trainers, breeders committees etc

By your own admission you don't bet much nor attend many race meetings.

Just trying to get a handle on how significantly important it is to you to see whether I should forward the latest weekly figures to you. :mellow:

 

 

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8 minutes ago, rdytdy said:

I am rather intrigued why you continually go on and on about not getting them Hesi. I have often wondered what significance or purpose are they to you if you did get them? The Annual Reports show the total turnover figures for each season.  

To help me understand do have any skin in the game? 

How many horses do you currently have in work or spelling?

How many broodmares in the paddock? 

Are you on any committee's to do with racing ie clubs, owners, trainers, breeders committees etc

By your own admission you don't bet much nor attend many race meetings.

Just trying to get a handle on how significantly important it is to you to see whether I should forward the latest weekly figures to you. :mellow:

 

 

If you have them would you forward them to me please Ted. Btw, I have no horses in work or spelling if that matters. No broodmares and am not on any relevant committees. I do bet quite a bit but not on NZ racing.

 

Very surprising to me that NZTR stopped publishing those figures.

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8 hours ago, rdytdy said:

I am rather intrigued why you continually go on and on about not getting them Hesi. I have often wondered what significance or purpose are they to you if you did get them? The Annual Reports show the total turnover figures for each season.  

To help me understand do have any skin in the game? 

How many horses do you currently have in work or spelling?

How many broodmares in the paddock? 

Are you on any committee's to do with racing ie clubs, owners, trainers, breeders committees etc

By your own admission you don't bet much nor attend many race meetings.

Just trying to get a handle on how significantly important it is to you to see whether I should forward the latest weekly figures to you. :mellow:

 

 

I'll tell you how significant they are Ted.  Derby Day at Ellerslie was down 18% on total totalisator turnover.  FOB was also down.

In terms of returns to the industry Ellerslie didn't contribute that day.

Rome burns and they partied.

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8 hours ago, 2Admin2 said:

I'll tell you how significant they are Ted.  Derby Day at Ellerslie was down 18% on total totalisator turnover.  FOB was also down.

In terms of returns to the industry Ellerslie didn't contribute that day.

Rome burns and they partied.

I have to query this statement Admin..... I am struggling to fathom how exactly do you measure returns to the industry . Derby Day has been the 6th biggest day this season in New Zealand from a punting perspective. From your logic this would suggest that the other 260 meetings are also not contributing. Your clarification of these matters would be appreciated 

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22 minutes ago, Nice Option said:

I have to query this statement Admin..... I am struggling to fathom how exactly do you measure returns to the industry . Derby Day has been the 6th biggest day this season in New Zealand from a punting perspective. From your logic this would suggest that the other 260 meetings are also not contributing. Your clarification of these matters would be appreciated 

Stakes paid vs yield on revenue.  If 17% on turnover is revenue how much was spent of industry money at Ellerslie?

Contrary to some people's opinion I'm not being deliberately negative however if we continue to believe our own propaganda then Nero is in charge.

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Stakes paid were $1.25m. Total turnover was $4.116m. At 2admin2's 17% estimate, which is probably high, that's gross revenue of $ .7m. Half of that is eaten up by NZRB costs leaving about $350,000 earned toward the $1.25m stakes paid out. Of course sponsorship, little pie, beer and gate sales will reduce the deficit, But, it is a mile from sustainable even though turnover was way up on last year. A commercial disaster which would be instantly canned by any other viable industry.

I think I got that about right. I'm sure I'll be quickly corrected if not.

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If you do the same exercise the next day at Wyndham, turnover was $812k. Gross betting revenue @ 17% therefore was $138,0000.  Take away the 50% NZRB costs leaves $69,000. Stakes paid out were $108k. So Wyndham net betting revenue covered 64% of stakes and Ellerslie net betting revenue covered 28% of stakes.

Neither is good but one is obviously disastrously worse than the other.

Hope that helps Nice Option. You are right that none of the 260 meetings are contributing but some are contributing significantly less than others from the betting revenue to stakes paid ratio.

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Oops sorry. That was Auckland Cup Day.

Derby day was stakes $1.53m . Total turnover 3.9m. Gross revenue at 17% = $ .66m. Net @ 50% = $330, 000.

So, estimated net betting revenue covered 22% of stakes. Even worse than Cup day.

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1 hour ago, hesi said:

Perhaps you might be able to see now Ted why it was important that these figs were made available each week, so people who are a lot more clever than me and you, like Leggy, can analyse and make comment on them

My questions were posed to you Hesi, not Leggy or anyone else. As per standard we just received another typical disdainful response.

That's why I sent Leggy the turnover figures and not you.

As for clever, well it's obvious,  Hesi and clever should never be seen in the same sentence.  

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8 hours ago, hesi said:

 

I do believe you got the only answer you are liable to get.

Thanks to Admin, but no thanks to you, as per usual, we can now find the figs on the NZTR website, be quick though, they are only up for the week.

Anyone interested, I am sure Admin won't mind if you drop him a line

Were can we find the figures please? 

Or does anyone have them for Oaks Day?

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17 hours ago, 2Admin2 said:

Stakes paid vs yield on revenue.  If 17% on turnover is revenue how much was spent of industry money at Ellerslie?

Contrary to some people's opinion I'm not being deliberately negative however if we continue to believe our own propaganda then Nero is in charge.

But on the basis of that logic (stakes paid versus yield on revenue) we would then be ruling a line through some of our great races, namely the Oaks, the Thorndon Mile, Sistema Stakes, Derby, Guineas.... the list goes on) 

For your reference:
 

       

Return to industry

Stakes

20/01/2018

Saturday

Wellington R C

                       922,712

      1,010,000

18/11/2017

Saturday

Canterbury Racing-Canterbury

                       886,272

         920,000

1/01/2018

Monday  

Auckland R C

 

                       764,059

         970,000

26/12/2017

Tuesday 

Auckland R C

 

                       757,323

         740,000

10/03/2018

Saturday

Auckland R C

 

                       699,778

      1,250,000

3/03/2018

Saturday

Auckland R C

 

                       661,190

      1,530,000

27/01/2018

Saturday

Auckland R C

 

                       595,206

      2,440,000

11/11/2017

Saturday

Canterbury Racing-Canterbury

                       474,624

         835,000

10/02/2018

Saturday

Waikato R C

 

                       404,119

         880,000

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3 minutes ago, Nice Option said:

But on the basis of that logic (stakes paid versus yield on revenue) we would then be ruling a line through some of our great races, namely the Oaks, the Thorndon Mile, Sistema Stakes, Derby, Guineas.... the list goes on) 

For your reference:
 

       

Return to industry

Stakes

20/01/2018

Saturday

Wellington R C

                       922,712

      1,010,000

18/11/2017

Saturday

Canterbury Racing-Canterbury

                       886,272

         920,000

1/01/2018

Monday  

Auckland R C

 

                       764,059

         970,000

26/12/2017

Tuesday 

Auckland R C

 

                       757,323

         740,000

10/03/2018

Saturday

Auckland R C

 

                       699,778

      1,250,000

3/03/2018

Saturday

Auckland R C

 

                       661,190

      1,530,000

27/01/2018

Saturday

Auckland R C

 

                       595,206

      2,440,000

11/11/2017

Saturday

Canterbury Racing-Canterbury

                       474,624

         835,000

10/02/2018

Saturday

Waikato R C

 

                       404,119

         880,000

Not necessarily. 

However we should be dropping the stakes on some of the races because the reality is that it is likely a $100,000 race will attract exactly the same field as a $200,000 race. 

You also need to consider that the net yield on a race such as the Melbourne Cup where we pay nothing in stakes helps to prop up our own stakes as do the importation of many races from overseas.  NZRB need to be very careful on how they manage the Racefields legislation and ongoing commingling arrangements or as the figures show above we are well and truly in the poop.

Note that not all revenue earned from Sports betting goes back to Sports but is also used to prop up racing.  There is a political knife hanging over that source of revenue.

Now this is all occurring during a period of relative economic prosperity.

 

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7 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said:

Not necessarily. 

However we should be dropping the stakes on some of the races because the reality is that it is likely a $100,000 race will attract exactly the same field as a $200,000 race. 

You also need to consider that the net yield on a race such as the Melbourne Cup where we pay nothing in stakes helps to prop up our own stakes as do the importation of many races from overseas.  NZRB need to be very careful on how they manage the Racefields legislation and ongoing commingling arrangements or as the figures show above we are well and truly in the poop.

Note that not all revenue earned from Sports betting goes back to Sports but is also used to prop up racing.  There is a political knife hanging over that source of revenue.

Now this is all occurring during a period of relative economic prosperity.

 

Whilst some merit in parts of your rationale dropping stakes seems to be a backward step to me. As an owner/breeder it doesn't exactly motivate me to purchase yearlings when you are buying against a backdrop of an industry (stakes) in decline. And I stand to be corrected but, in my opinion, the field that the old Kelt Capital used to attract back when it was $1mio (possibly $2mio 1 year) was far classier and with more depth than what we get now 

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25 minutes ago, Nice Option said:

But on the basis of that logic (stakes paid versus yield on revenue) we would then be ruling a line through some of our great races, namely the Oaks, the Thorndon Mile, Sistema Stakes, Derby, Guineas.... the list goes on) 

For your reference:
 

       

Return to industry

Stakes

20/01/2018

Saturday

Wellington R C

                       922,712

      1,010,000

18/11/2017

Saturday

Canterbury Racing-Canterbury

                       886,272

         920,000

1/01/2018

Monday  

Auckland R C

 

                       764,059

         970,000

26/12/2017

Tuesday 

Auckland R C

 

                       757,323

         740,000

10/03/2018

Saturday

Auckland R C

 

                       699,778

      1,250,000

3/03/2018

Saturday

Auckland R C

 

                       661,190

      1,530,000

27/01/2018

Saturday

Auckland R C

 

                       595,206

      2,440,000

11/11/2017

Saturday

Canterbury Racing-Canterbury

                       474,624

         835,000

10/02/2018

Saturday

Waikato R C

 

                       404,119

         880,000

Thanks Nice Option.

Would you mind advising where you get those figures and how the Return to Industry is calculated?

I agree that it is an issue as to what happens to those key races but they should be self-funding and if not, a more balanced return to the wider industry would surely be fairer to those who provide the product. Not just rewarding the very best horses by a multiple of the betting they attract.

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16 hours ago, Leggy said:

Of course sponsorship, little pie, beer and gate sales will reduce the deficit

That would ARC profit though eh? Or do the ARC put in their own money to boost the stakes, and the little pies reduce their deficit on that?  

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