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dkc

Field selection

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With the new rating system, its time HRNZ came out with a hard and fast policy on Field selection for R races. At the moment it seems that clubs are programing race with very wide spreads in rating eg R40 to R70. Then they are splitting the races up to suit the nominations.

What should be the order of acceptance for these races? Surely it should be either Ratings first then form or Form then ratings

Either way there is no way a lower rated horse without form ie 42 should be selected before Rating 50 without form.

At the moment it is club discretion.

It needs to be more transparent.

 

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Problem is that maidens having first start are rated at 50 I believe while long time maidens that have been placed can be rated at less (say 42) at time of nominations.  All horses should be getting a fair deal. If they miss getting selected one week then the next time they are nominated the should be selected no matter what form . Owners want a run for their money at regular intervals.

Didn't see the nominations  for Addington and Cheviot this week so don't know how many were nominated for both meetings. 

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There are still preference selection criteria for maidens - therefore a horse with a placing in last 3 starts has preference over a first starter even if their rating is lower.

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7 hours ago, eljay said:

There are still preference selection criteria for maidens - therefore a horse with a placing in last 3 starts has preference over a first starter even if their rating is lower.

I my opinion there shouldn't be ratings for maidens. If a horse isn't good enough to win a maiden race then it shouldn't win a race. There are no more races to win so by rating maidens all that is happening is a better horse is missing out. Currently a recently qualified horse is rated at MR50 and has to race the better Maidens. Forget that and put them all in the same class. once they have won their race then start the rating system.

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Don't really follow you dkc - how can a horse be a "better Maiden" if it hasn't won a race?     You say "if a horse isn't good enough to win a maiden race then it shouldn't win a race" - surely a horse not good enough to win a race wouldn't win a race, would it?

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10 hours ago, eljay said:

Don't really follow you dkc - how can a horse be a "better Maiden" if it hasn't won a race?     You say "if a horse isn't good enough to win a maiden race then it shouldn't win a race" - surely a horse not good enough to win a race wouldn't win a race, would it?

It does when they split maiden races on ratings, which is my point forget ratings in maiden races. Its should be the best maidens winning.

The way it is now you could have a maiden on rating MR50 running 2nd to 5th every week. It won't move off that rating but a horse running 6th to last every week will drop in ratings and eventually get into a lower rated race and probably win a race.

I don't think its fair when they are all trying to get that first win!

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Even the horse rated MR40 is trying to gets it's first win so why shouldn't it.     Under your interpretation you want half the maidens to win first up and the others never to win.     And those that run 2nd to 6th to continue to run 2nd to 6th.      If there are 13 starters in a race only one will win regardless of whether it is a MR50 or a MR40 and if there are enough nominated to to run 2 races and they are split by rating, then one with a higher rating and one with a lower rating will win.     And if there are no rating points added for 2nd to 6th this will mean that the highest rated maiden will be MR50 regardless anyway.    The way I see it is that when you qualify to race you become a MR50 maiden but you are not handed a "free" win and you could in 5 years time still be a MR50 maiden.    Thats why ratings are MR and not just R - and those who have had their win as a maiden can thereafter progress forward or back in the ratings and perhaps with the case of trotters they will race against maidens but the only time you will find pacers will race as maidens against one (or more) win horses is either where the trainer has elected to do so or there is an age group race again here all horses are entered in such races by the trainers, not the clubs.    It certainly would be nice to have enough cattle to programme a race "For MR47 to MR48 horses" etc. but especially in the north we know the answer to that!

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On ‎3‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 4:42 PM, eljay said:

Even the horse rated MR40 is trying to gets it's first win so why shouldn't it.     Under your interpretation you want half the maidens to win first up and the others never to win.     And those that run 2nd to 6th to continue to run 2nd to 6th.      If there are 13 starters in a race only one will win regardless of whether it is a MR50 or a MR40 and if there are enough nominated to to run 2 races and they are split by rating, then one with a higher rating and one with a lower rating will win.     And if there are no rating points added for 2nd to 6th this will mean that the highest rated maiden will be MR50 regardless anyway.    The way I see it is that when you qualify to race you become a MR50 maiden but you are not handed a "free" win and you could in 5 years time still be a MR50 maiden.    Thats why ratings are MR and not just R - and those who have had their win as a maiden can thereafter progress forward or back in the ratings and perhaps with the case of trotters they will race against maidens but the only time you will find pacers will race as maidens against one (or more) win horses is either where the trainer has elected to do so or there is an age group race again here all horses are entered in such races by the trainers, not the clubs.    It certainly would be nice to have enough cattle to programme a race "For MR47 to MR48 horses" etc. but especially in the north we know the answer to that!

No reason why a MR40 shouldn't get its first win but not in a easy race because it is possibly at expense of a better horse.

You don't get it do you!

say there are 100 maiden winners each year, by having races for MR40 to MR44 all you are doing is slicing the pie differently.

surely your best 100 horses should be winning those races.

Just my opinion

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Completely argee with dkc here all maidens should be thrown in and drawn randomly, when you split low rates maiden all it does is give a horse a win who probly can’t Compete well in the next grade up. All maiden should be treated as maidens and the best horse on the day wins the race . If a lower rated maiden can’t win a race so be it not all horses will win races and they shouldn’t be put in to easy low rated maiden races to get a benifit win.

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I suppose there is an argument many ways.    HRNZ ratings "system" was supposedly to race like against like but I suppose in the long run, owners like to get at least one win for the gold they outlay, trainers and drivers want to win (percentages) so no one really wants fields of "nillers", yet to get many races off the ground these days such animals are valuable to the clubs just to get races off the ground.     Then one of them (maybe) flukes a win and becomes a lifetime R40 after not being able to handle the grade, so I suppose then there is really no answer to the question what is worse - being a lifetime maiden or a lifetime R40?     

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