Aaron Bidlake 759 Report post Posted January 29, 2018 9 hours ago, hizzy said: 10% to synd manager Really? Is that an actual thing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,695 Report post Posted January 29, 2018 48 minutes ago, Aaron Bidlake said: Really? Is that an actual thing? They don't seem to care they just make it up as they go...LOL La Zip 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774 Report post Posted January 29, 2018 48 minutes ago, Aaron Bidlake said: Really? Is that an actual thing? It wasn't when I had one with Te Akau. Well not that I remember (mind you I don't remember too many $550000 winning stakes either) chelseacol and Double R 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Smallhaussen 3,226 Report post Posted January 29, 2018 I know someone who had a share in a mare they sold at end of carreer for $135,000 which is 150k less 10% Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774 Report post Posted January 29, 2018 7 minutes ago, von Smallhaussen said: I know someone who had a share in a mare they sold at end of carreer for $135,000 which is 150k less 10% 10% of a sale price for the trainer is not unheard of is it? Not often an extra 10% (effectively) for the training organisation. Must be one of the great gigs training for Te Akau(certainly in NZ terms). Endless stream of well bred, well educated young ones through the gate , no worries about whether someone is going to pay or not or how you are going to pay the wages, the float, the vet or the feed bill Insider and Aaron Bidlake 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted January 29, 2018 8 minutes ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said: 10% of a sale price for the trainer is not unheard of is it? Not often an extra 10% (effectively) for the training organisation. Must be one of the great gigs training for Te Akau(certainly in NZ terms). Endless stream of well bred, well educated young ones through the gate , no worries about whether someone is going to pay or not or how you are going to pay the wages, the float, the vet or the feed bill My experience is the buyer pays the trainer 10% on top of the accepted offer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelseacol 2,488 Report post Posted January 30, 2018 57 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said: My experience is the buyer pays the trainer 10% on top of the accepted offer. I think the sale of racehorses and who gets a cut and from whom and what the owners know or don't know is one of the great areas of mystery in the world... I know a few people who didn't know a horse was even sold, didn't get consulted, never knew the actual deal etc etc... Only a rort if you aren't in on it methinks chevy86, TOM(the other Molloy), hizzy and 1 other 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted January 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, chelseacol said: I think the sale of racehorses and who gets a cut and from whom and what the owners know or don't know is one of the great areas of mystery in the world... I know a few people who didn't know a horse was even sold, didn't get consulted, never knew the actual deal etc etc... Only a rort if you aren't in on it methinks I agree. However from my experience owners and trainers are a bit slack on contracts. The Princess Coup "sale" was the classic case. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dockers 200 Report post Posted January 30, 2018 On 28/01/2018 at 3:22 PM, Flagship uberalles said: I fully agree tramp Was that Veitch sitting beside Ellis at the sales today ? He' a guru now Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insider 3,875 Report post Posted January 30, 2018 8 hours ago, 2Admin2 said: My experience is the buyer pays the trainer 10% on top of the accepted offer. Incorrect. The seller normally pays the trainer 10% on top of what he and the agent might get. The trainer gets 10% to compensate for the loss of potential winnings in the future, from which he would normally have got 10%. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774 Report post Posted January 30, 2018 37 minutes ago, Dockers said: Was that Veitch sitting beside Ellis at the sales today ? He' a guru now The horrifying thing was Steven Joyce and (apparently) David Bennett(such a non entity I couldn't recognise him) sitting with Ellis yesterday. National had nine years of showing not a spec of interest in racing and those two are there in the limelight! drewandjo 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shad 1,539 Report post Posted January 30, 2018 Mr joyce may keeping a low profile, no one throwing their toys out of the cot there, i hope. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted January 30, 2018 42 minutes ago, Insider said: Incorrect. The seller normally pays the trainer 10% on top of what he and the agent might get. The trainer gets 10% to compensate for the loss of potential winnings in the future, from which he would normally have got 10%. I said MY EXPERIENCE as in that's what happened when I sold a horse. As for the trainer compensation generally it is accepted practice NOT contractually enforceable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double R 260 Report post Posted January 30, 2018 Agree Insider. I know when I had a horse with Te Akau, the 10% came out of the sale price. Also when you sign up to taking a share with them, there is clause that you sign agreeing to this. On the other side of ownership with Te Akau, and I have experienced this on more than one occasion, if the horse did not come up to their expectations, a credit was offered to a generous value of the horse at the time, on a future purchase of another horse with them. Cheers. Robert. hizzy 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy 52 Report post Posted January 30, 2018 Awesome that's a good deal lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,695 Report post Posted January 30, 2018 22 minutes ago, Double R said: Agree Insider. I know when I had a horse with Te Akau, the 10% came out of the sale price. Also when you sign up to taking a share with them, there is clause that you sign agreeing to this. On the other side of ownership with Te Akau, and I have experienced this on more than one occasion, if the horse did not come up to their expectations, a credit was offered to a generous value of the horse at the time, on a future purchase of another horse with them. Cheers. Robert. Most owners give the trainer 10% out of the sale price it is what we have always done when selling them... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy 52 Report post Posted January 30, 2018 I know a trainer that when you take a horse to him sign here 10% if you sell don't like go away The day of a handshake is it still here but lol Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted January 30, 2018 11 hours ago, scooby3051 said: Most owners give the trainer 10% out of the sale price it is what we have always done when selling them... I know quite a few owners who were very surprised when told about this "unwritten custom and practice." I thought their arguments that the trainer had clicked all the stakes winnings plus they had been paying a syndicate management fee and above the average training fees and expenses why should their ticket get clicked even more. Like the trainer who said to me when I asked if I should sling the jockey: "nah they get 5% for a few minutes work - shout me a whiskey instead." The 10% sale fee should be written into a contract before starting the racing engagement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelseacol 2,488 Report post Posted January 30, 2018 56 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said: I know quite a few owners who were very surprised when told about this "unwritten custom and practice." I thought their arguments that the trainer had clicked all the stakes winnings plus they had been paying a syndicate management fee and above the average training fees and expenses why should their ticket get clicked even more. Like the trainer who said to me when I asked if I should sling the jockey: "nah they get 5% for a few minutes work - shout me a whiskey instead." The 10% sale fee should be written into a contract before starting the racing engagement. As someone said contractually unenforceable in most instances as owners don't have any idea about it going in to a training relationship. The argument it is 10% to compensate for the 10% of future stakes the trainer misses out on is so flawed btw. dock leaf 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevy86 2,681 Report post Posted January 30, 2018 33 minutes ago, chelseacol said: The argument it is 10% to compensate for the 10% of future stakes the trainer misses out on is so flawed btw. Too true.An historical rort like parliamentary pensions! If the owner was guaranteed that the horse would win the sale price in the future then he would not be selling it! Pam Robson and dock leaf 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,007 Report post Posted January 30, 2018 It is a standard clause in the Agreement to Train supported by the Owners' Federation and Trainers' Association. If that is used, then I'd assume it would be contractually enforceable? 6. Sale of Horse If the Owner sells the Horse to a third party during the Commission Period, the Owner must pay to the Trainer such sum as is equal to ten percent (10%) of the sale price plus Goods and Services Tax, if applicable. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelseacol 2,488 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 7 hours ago, Leggy said: It is a standard clause in the Agreement to Train supported by the Owners' Federation and Trainers' Association. If that is used, then I'd assume it would be contractually enforceable? 6. Sale of Horse If the Owner sells the Horse to a third party during the Commission Period, the Owner must pay to the Trainer such sum as is equal to ten percent (10%) of the sale price plus Goods and Services Tax, if applicable. Thanks Leggy do most owners sign these ? Has anyone ever changed this clause if they do ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevy86 2,681 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 And then maybe deduct 10% of the historical training fees just to get the "historical" and "future" ledger balanced?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,695 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 8 minutes ago, chevy86 said: And then maybe deduct 10% of the historical training fees just to get the "historical" and "future" ledger balanced?? So the trainers expertise and knowledge is worth nothing...better you do the job yourself... Belinda 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevy86 2,681 Report post Posted January 31, 2018 Just now, scooby3051 said: So the trainers expertise and knowledge is worth nothing...better you do the job yourself... Well why not just make the sale price a 50/50 split then? You forget who takes ALL the risk--purchase price, training fees, transport, NZTR fees, jockey fees etc, etc. The owner pays for the expertise and knowledge via the training fees, and the greater that expertise the higher the fees, just like any voluntary business. GOM 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...