RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Yir Tiz

Avantage Syndicate & Veitch Share??

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7 minutes ago, von Smallhaussen said:

I know someone who had a share in a mare they sold at end of carreer for $135,000 which is 150k less 10% ;)

10% of a sale price for the trainer is not unheard of is it?  Not often an extra 10% (effectively) for the training organisation.

Must be one of the great gigs training for Te Akau(certainly in NZ terms).  Endless stream of well bred, well educated  young ones through the gate , no worries about whether someone is going to pay or not or how you are going to pay the wages,  the float, the vet or the feed bill

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8 minutes ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said:

10% of a sale price for the trainer is not unheard of is it?  Not often an extra 10% (effectively) for the training organisation.

Must be one of the great gigs training for Te Akau(certainly in NZ terms).  Endless stream of well bred, well educated  young ones through the gate , no worries about whether someone is going to pay or not or how you are going to pay the wages,  the float, the vet or the feed bill

My experience is the buyer pays the trainer 10% on top of the accepted offer.

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57 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said:

My experience is the buyer pays the trainer 10% on top of the accepted offer.

I think the sale of racehorses and who gets a cut and from whom and what the owners know or don't know is one of the great areas of mystery in the world...

I know a few people who didn't know a horse was even sold, didn't get consulted, never knew the actual deal etc etc... Only a rort if you aren't in on it methinks

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2 minutes ago, chelseacol said:

I think the sale of racehorses and who gets a cut and from whom and what the owners know or don't know is one of the great areas of mystery in the world...

I know a few people who didn't know a horse was even sold, didn't get consulted, never knew the actual deal etc etc... Only a rort if you aren't in on it methinks

I agree.  However from my experience owners and trainers are a bit slack on contracts.  The Princess Coup "sale" was the classic case.

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8 hours ago, 2Admin2 said:

My experience is the buyer pays the trainer 10% on top of the accepted offer.

Incorrect. The seller normally pays the trainer 10% on top of what he and the agent might get.

The trainer gets 10% to compensate for the loss of potential winnings in the future, from which he would normally have got 10%. 

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37 minutes ago, Dockers said:

Was that Veitch sitting beside Ellis at the sales today ? He' a guru now 

The horrifying thing was Steven Joyce and (apparently) David Bennett(such a non entity I couldn't recognise him) sitting with Ellis yesterday.  National had nine years of showing not a spec of interest in racing and those two are there in the limelight! 

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42 minutes ago, Insider said:

Incorrect. The seller normally pays the trainer 10% on top of what he and the agent might get.

The trainer gets 10% to compensate for the loss of potential winnings in the future, from which he would normally have got 10%. 

I said MY EXPERIENCE as in that's what happened when I sold a horse.  As for the trainer compensation generally it is accepted practice NOT contractually enforceable.

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Agree Insider.

I know when I had a horse with Te Akau, the 10% came out of the sale price. Also when you sign up to taking a share with them, there is clause that you sign agreeing to this.

On the other side of ownership with Te Akau, and I have experienced this on more than one occasion, if the horse did not come up to their expectations, a credit was offered to a generous value of the horse at the time, on a future purchase of another horse with them.

Cheers.

Robert.

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22 minutes ago, Double R said:

Agree Insider.

I know when I had a horse with Te Akau, the 10% came out of the sale price. Also when you sign up to taking a share with them, there is clause that you sign agreeing to this.

On the other side of ownership with Te Akau, and I have experienced this on more than one occasion, if the horse did not come up to their expectations, a credit was offered to a generous value of the horse at the time, on a future purchase of another horse with them.

Cheers.

Robert.

Most owners give the trainer 10% out of the sale price it is what we have always done when selling them...

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11 hours ago, scooby3051 said:

Most owners give the trainer 10% out of the sale price it is what we have always done when selling them...

I know quite a few owners who were very surprised when told about this "unwritten custom and practice."  I thought their arguments that the trainer had clicked all the stakes winnings plus they had been paying a syndicate management fee and above the average training fees and expenses why should their ticket get clicked even more.

Like the trainer who said to me when I asked if I should sling the jockey: "nah they get 5% for a few minutes work - shout me a whiskey instead."

The 10% sale fee should  be written into a contract before starting the racing engagement.

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56 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said:

I know quite a few owners who were very surprised when told about this "unwritten custom and practice."  I thought their arguments that the trainer had clicked all the stakes winnings plus they had been paying a syndicate management fee and above the average training fees and expenses why should their ticket get clicked even more.

Like the trainer who said to me when I asked if I should sling the jockey: "nah they get 5% for a few minutes work - shout me a whiskey instead."

The 10% sale fee should  be written into a contract before starting the racing engagement.

As someone said contractually unenforceable in most instances as owners don't have any idea about it going in to a training relationship.

The argument it is 10% to compensate for the 10% of future stakes the trainer misses out on is so flawed btw.

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33 minutes ago, chelseacol said:

 

The argument it is 10% to compensate for the 10% of future stakes the trainer misses out on is so flawed btw.

Too true.An historical rort like parliamentary pensions! If the owner was guaranteed that the horse would win the sale price in the future then he would not be selling it!

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It is a standard clause in the Agreement to Train supported by the Owners' Federation and Trainers' Association. If that is used, then I'd assume it would be contractually enforceable?

If the Owner sells the Horse to a third party during the Commission Period, the Owner must pay to the Trainer such sum as is equal to ten percent (10%) of the sale price plus Goods and Services Tax, if applicable.

 

 

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7 hours ago, Leggy said:

It is a standard clause in the Agreement to Train supported by the Owners' Federation and Trainers' Association. If that is used, then I'd assume it would be contractually enforceable?

If the Owner sells the Horse to a third party during the Commission Period, the Owner must pay to the Trainer such sum as is equal to ten percent (10%) of the sale price plus Goods and Services Tax, if applicable.

 

 

 

Thanks Leggy

do most owners sign these ? Has anyone ever changed this clause if they do ?

 

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Just now, scooby3051 said:

So the trainers expertise and knowledge is worth nothing...better you do the job yourself...

Well why not just make the sale price a 50/50 split then? You forget who takes ALL the risk--purchase price, training fees, transport, NZTR fees, jockey fees etc, etc. The owner pays for the expertise and knowledge via the training fees, and the greater that expertise the higher the fees, just like any voluntary business.

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