RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Tomjr

Duelled mare looking for a Danehill free stallion

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You’ve not considered Complacent?  Top quality racehorse at a great fee. Wrote, a Breeders Cup winning son of High Chap  is worth a shot at the same fee...there are some fabulous young horses standing here for decent fees that are acceptable to the breed to race sector. Better than going to some overrated, over-priced son of Fastnet Rock...seriously people, how many more times will we be sucked in by this horse? 

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11 minutes ago, La Zip said:

You’ve not considered Complacent?  Top quality racehorse at a great fee. Wrote, a Breeders Cup winning son of High Chap  is worth a shot at the same fee...there are some fabulous young horses standing here for decent fees that are acceptable to the breed to race sector. Better than going to some overrated, over-priced son of Fastnet Rock...seriously people, how many more times will we be sucked in by this horse? 

To be fair there are some nice sons of Fastnet standing at stud.

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53 minutes ago, Huey said:

To be fair there are some nice sons of Fastnet standing at stud.

Huey, yes, there are a few...Smart missile, Foxwedge, Hinchinbrook.... in all honesty, I think they (as a group) have fallen well short of the mark In regards to the outrageous yearling prices, hype, spin.and the initial season stud fees being charged. It’s taken until this year for Coolmore to actually stand a son..Merchant Navy..and I think that says it all. His fillies are better...

Apart from Foxwedge & Merchant Navy, where are the Group 1winning sons ? Oh, you can add in Rock’n’Pop.. he’s at a top Stud and I don’t think Waikato would be going out of their way to,find another Fastnet? Just my opinion...

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1 hour ago, La Zip said:

You’ve not considered Complacent?  Top quality racehorse at a great fee. Wrote, a Breeders Cup winning son of High Chap  is worth a shot at the same fee...there are some fabulous young horses standing here for decent fees that are acceptable to the breed to race sector. Better than going to some overrated, over-priced son of Fastnet Rock...seriously people, how many more times will we be sucked in by this horse? 

Wrote is definately on the list as is Jimmy Choux 

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Yep they haven't really set the world on fire , but a fairly competitive market in Aus, competing with some of the more established stalllions.

I was more referring to see how his sons at studs here in NZ go Atlante, Highly Recommended , The Bold One. 

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I see the new Cambridge stud has purchased another Fastnet Rock son Age Of Fire.I don't know who is advising them but I hope they are making the right decisions. If it was me I would be looking for sons from the Invincible Spirit and/or Snitzel line, if its speed they want. Interestingly here in Aust Spirit of Boom also seems to be the next rising speed star.

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34 minutes ago, jeepers said:

I see the new Cambridge stud has purchased another Fastnet Rock son Age Of Fire.I don't know who is advising them but I hope they are making the right decisions. If it was me I would be looking for sons from the Invincible Spirit and/or Snitzel line, if its speed they want. Interestingly here in Aust Spirit of Boom also seems to be the next rising speed star.

I'm not sure those line of stallions would be cheap to get into with most Australian studs snapping them up.

I like Age of Fire pedigree by Fastnet out of a Galileo mare, out of a Soviet Star mare out of a Mill Reef and I'm sure he wont be as ineffectual at stud here as his previous family member Fly to the Stars.

I'd love to see NZ get a son of Exceed and Excel at stud , doesn't appear likely though.

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1 hour ago, Huey said:

I'm not sure those line of stallions would be cheap to get into with most Australian studs snapping them up.

I like Age of Fire pedigree by Fastnet out of a Galileo mare, out of a Soviet Star mare out of a Mill Reef and I'm sure he wont be as ineffectual at stud here as his previous family member Fly to the Stars.

I'd love to see NZ get a son of Exceed and Excel at stud , doesn't appear likely though.

I think if they (sons of Fastnet) were going to be the "next big thing" they would have done it by now. I (and again, I hope I'm wrong for the sake of the Lindsays' hard earned cash) wouldn't place Age of Fire on my "go to" list....firstly he has to prove himself in another jurisdiction (I think he is going to Aus to race?)  and he is following a line of over-hyped, under performing sons who have not delivered at the level one would expect from the spin and/or the prices paid.  

There was a lovely son of E&E, called OUTREACH....he won his only 2 starts for Snowden and then broke down  He is a full to Golden Slipper winner, Overreach...and that family just keeps on giving (dam is a half to Reward for Effort)...he now stands at Widden for a very reasonable fee of $8K? 

But the one stallion that I can't understand not being fully patronized in Australia is Zebedee....a winning son of Invincible Spirit and a proven prolific sire of 2yos....???  Again I think the reason could be is that Cornerstone's messaging is  not as powerful compared to others....and to get mares to South Australia would be a struggle??

But just let's reflect on the power of social media churned out by some studmasters and the younger "dedicated followers of fashion"....between them, they're outlook seems to be risk averse and to trade everything...spin it, turn it over asap for a quick return...they are now shaping our industry and I'm just wondering if they are getting it right?

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2 hours ago, jeepers said:

I see the new Cambridge stud has purchased another Fastnet Rock son Age Of Fire.I don't know who is advising them but I hope they are making the right decisions. If it was me I would be looking for sons from the Invincible Spirit and/or Snitzel line, if its speed they want. Interestingly here in Aust Spirit of Boom also seems to be the next rising speed star.

Jess, you know that if Spirit of Boom was offered to any of the dedicated followers of fashion and/or young gun stud masters, they would have turned their noses up at him....he has virtually no commercial pedigree but was a fabulous honest racehorse and so was his half brother....and this is shades of  Written Tycoon all over again....and love how he is getting good, physical early types...good on Eureka Stud, a family owned and operated Stud in SE Queensland....and of course, all the young boys are now on the band waggon, spending other peoples money chasing.......

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12 minutes ago, La Zip said:

I think if they (sons of Fastnet) were going to be the "next big thing" they would have done it by now. I (and again, I hope I'm wrong for the sake of the Lindsays' hard earned cash) wouldn't place Age of Fire on my "go to" list....firstly he has to prove himself in another jurisdiction (I think he is going to Aus to race?)  and he is following a line of over-hyped, under performing sons who have not delivered at the level one would expect from the spin and/or the prices paid.  

There was a lovely son of E&E, called OUTREACH....he won his only 2 starts for Snowden and then broke down  He is a full to Golden Slipper winner, Overreach...and that family just keeps on giving (dam is a half to Reward for Effort)...he now stands at Widden for a very reasonable fee of $8K? 

But the one stallion that I can't understand not being fully patronized in Australia is Zebedee....a winning son of Invincible Spirit and a proven prolific sire of 2yos....???  Again I think the reason could be is that Cornerstone's messaging is  not as powerful compared to others....and to get mares to South Australia would be a struggle??

But just let's reflect on the power of social media churned out by some studmasters and the younger "dedicated followers of fashion"....between them, they're outlook seems to be risk averse and to trade everything...spin it, turn it over asap for a quick return...they are now shaping our industry and I'm just wondering if they are getting it right?

Understand what you're saying but alot of these sons of Fastnet can still leave a good horse look at Hinchinbrook, possibly only starting to come to prominence now?

As for Age of Fire at stud well like everything it depends on the price they stand him at, but you can't argue he has lovely bloodlines.

I'm a massive fan of I Am Invincible and love following his stock, he has done it the hard way and only now starting to get the accolades he deserves.

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I am Invincible is a similar story to Written Tycoon....wouldn't have high on the hit list of the big studs,  but the Mitchells know a good horse...and they took a punt - again, another family owned stud who spent their OWN money....and bingo!  Kaching!

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We have enjoyed racing the progeny of unfashionable stallions, including

Shannon

Northerly Native

Royal Pinnacle

Alleged Dash

Shy Boy

And they have all done us proud.  We have also raced a few by more fashionable ones including

Zabeel

Prized

Grosvenor

Shinto King

Bertolini

Funnily enough they have all been winners and some of the unfashionable ones have been the best.  However I am now looking to breed to sell an that is a whole different ball game.  Enter Bullbars and Jakkalberry et al for consideration (and Sweynesse)

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Actually folks, there is a young stallion that I believe has slipped under the radar..and could offer a wonderful out cross for all those Danehill line and possibly Iffraaj mares.  He is located in the Deep South at WRL...Ghibillines. He is closely related to Sepoy...and the family of Canny Lad. I have been following him as I have an Iffraaj mare from the same family and though it would make for an interesting cross. Good quick racehorse...and I note Saturday’s Ellerslie winner, Astor, is by Iffraaj from a Shamadarl mare....so could be worth a shot despite the transport costs. 

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La Zip  

The Ghibillines yearlings sold well at the sales including quite a few to Aussie. He seems to have been a horse that raced in good races and placed but did not quite make the "top draw".

A win in one of those better Group races and he would not be at WRL. Also WRL have a good track record with stallion selection.

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Yes, WRL keep churning out winners every day...and I think Ghibillines will be another star for them albeit his a different type of horse to their other stallions.

I suppose Darley have so many young horses on their books they have to place them wherever they can...so I guess thats how he ended up at WRL.  I do think he is a more interesting horse than Sweynesse..but I have a feeling there is a certain bias against them in the Australian stud market...hence, that's why a few end up here. 

The Darley horses here at stud are very interesting....from Telperion at Harvey's stud (a nice son of Street Cry and well priced), Contributor and Complacent at Mapperley, Sweynesse at Novara, Ghibillines at WRL...and of course, Iffraaj at Haunui...

I tend to like the Darley colts from the Woodlands mares...although they've just about got rid of all of the mares...but its just amazing how many top class horses they produce.

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3 hours ago, La Zip said:

Actually folks, there is a young stallion that I believe has slipped under the radar..and could offer a wonderful out cross for all those Danehill line and possibly Iffraaj mares.  He is located in the Deep South at WRL...Ghibillines. He is closely related to Sepoy...and the family of Canny Lad. I have been following him as I have an Iffraaj mare from the same family and though it would make for an interesting cross. Good quick racehorse...and I note Saturday’s Ellerslie winner, Astor, is by Iffraaj from a Shamadarl mare....so could be worth a shot despite the transport costs. 

Ghibellines  2nd dam is by Danehill  so just wondering how does this become an outcross...?

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15 hours ago, Tomjr said:

We have enjoyed racing the progeny of unfashionable stallions, including

Shannon

Northerly Native

Royal Pinnacle

Alleged Dash

Shy Boy

And they have all done us proud.  We have also raced a few by more fashionable ones including

Zabeel

Prized

Grosvenor

Shinto King

Bertolini

Funnily enough they have all been winners and some of the unfashionable ones have been the best.  However I am now looking to breed to sell an that is a whole different ball game.  Enter Bullbars and Jakkalberry et al for consideration (and Sweynesse)

I'm intrigued by your notion that Bullbars is a commercial option? As an example he had 4 lots at the 2016 R2R sale all off reasonable reserves , not one sold.

 I've always liked the stallion but his sales results haven't set the world on fire.

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6 hours ago, Huey said:

I'm intrigued by your notion that Bullbars is a commercial option? As an example he had 4 lots at the 2016 R2R sale all off reasonable reserves , not one sold.

 I've always liked the stallion but his sales results haven't set the world on fire.

Not yet but he is starting to leave some quite precocious progeny, and these will go on with it

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1 hour ago, Tomjr said:

Not yet but he is starting to leave some quite precocious progeny, and these will go on with it

I admire your optimism , but he has got 3 or more crops of racing age from memory , he is going to have to have a number of good ones to convert to what youd describe as commercial and waiting for stock doesn't appear to be something the market has an appetite for.

 

I really hope your right as I like the stallion also.

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On 2/20/2018 at 7:39 PM, Huey said:

I admire your optimism , but he has got 3 or more crops of racing age from memory , he is going to have to have a number of good ones to convert to what youd describe as commercial and waiting for stock doesn't appear to be something the market has an appetite for.

 

I really hope your right as I like the stallion also.

Huey he's only had 77 foals 38 runners for 20 winners only 11 runners in Oz for 6 winners with 14 wins but yes not what you'd traditionally go to if you were breeding to sell, however he only needs a couple of good ones to get the wheels moving. He's a lovely horse and hasn't really seen that many mares so fingers crossed:) 

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5 hours ago, Louise said:

Huey he's only had 77 foals 38 runners for 20 winners only 11 runners in Oz for 6 winners with 14 wins but yes not what you'd traditionally go to if you were breeding to sell, however he only needs a couple of good ones to get the wheels moving. He's a lovely horse and hasn't really seen that many mares so fingers crossed:) 

Couldn't agree more , he is a gorgeous stallion . However the market is seriously unforgiving as I'm sure youre aware and he'd need something to pop up soon to make him a viable commercial option.

One observation of him is that he appears to be leaving all kinds of types from the ones I've seen at the sales, he just hasn't appeared to stamp them as a type. Any thoughts on that?

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6 hours ago, Huey said:

Couldn't agree more , he is a gorgeous stallion . However the market is seriously unforgiving as I'm sure youre aware and he'd need something to pop up soon to make him a viable commercial option.

One observation of him is that he appears to be leaving all kinds of types from the ones I've seen at the sales, he just hasn't appeared to stamp them as a type. Any thoughts on that?

Yes completely agree with that he only had one in book 1 which sold for 150k and completely different type to the book 2 colt that sold for 55k. Sales are very unforgiving although many go nuts over first season sires and really buyers from Aussie want in the main horses with proven Group winning/placed Australian form and plenty here to choose from, he's had such few mares that he won't appeal to that many unless outstanding type and when you're breeding you're not sure what you'll get noticeably the 150k colt was a 32k pinhook - he's a good match to my mare but he would be a breed to race then sell but haven't been there yet.

As for a stallion throwing his type is it that important? Does it mean they carry their speed etc or is it just a physical manifestation that makes you think they will be like their sire?...remember Lucky Unicorn he threw a type especially in some of those heads and size although IMO the filly Capital Diamond referred to her female line...

 

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On 23/02/2018 at 0:17 AM, Louise said:

Huey he's only had 77 foals 38 runners for 20 winners only 11 runners in Oz for 6 winners with 14 wins but yes not what you'd traditionally go to if you were breeding to sell, however he only needs a couple of good ones to get the wheels moving. He's a lovely horse and hasn't really seen that many mares so fingers crossed:) 

And Contessa Vannessa is sure helping

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On 2/23/2018 at 1:12 PM, Louise said:

Yes completely agree with that he only had one in book 1 which sold for 150k and completely different type to the book 2 colt that sold for 55k. Sales are very unforgiving although many go nuts over first season sires and really buyers from Aussie want in the main horses with proven Group winning/placed Australian form and plenty here to choose from, he's had such few mares that he won't appeal to that many unless outstanding type and when you're breeding you're not sure what you'll get noticeably the 150k colt was a 32k pinhook - he's a good match to my mare but he would be a breed to race then sell but haven't been there yet.

As for a stallion throwing his type is it that important? Does it mean they carry their speed etc or is it just a physical manifestation that makes you think they will be like their sire?...remember Lucky Unicorn he threw a type especially in some of those heads and size although IMO the filly Capital Diamond referred to her female line...

 

I know what youre saying , but I just like to see some familiarity in something I'm breeding or buying if you get my drift

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