Year on year.....

[Insider 3,942]

Wellington Cup Day is traditionally the biggest betting day in the country!

Will it be this year or will it be overtaken by the new Karaka Millions raceday with its 2 x million dollar sweepstake races and its supporting cast of Black Type races?

Through circumstances, having the Wellington Cup, the Thorndon and the Telegraph on the same day creates a mouth watering offering.

There again Ellerslie with the two $1 Million Dollar Races and the supporting Black Type races, offers something possibly equally appealing.

I will be at both meetings, that’s for sure  

Who else will be at both and which meeting do you think will come out on top, betting wise? 

The old way or the new way?

Test cricket or T20?

 

 

 

 

[We're Doomed 4,855]

The average punter doesn't suddenly lash out on a race just because it is worth $1m, esp an age group race. A big field of handicappers will always do more turnover. The key will be whether Wgtn can get 18 reasonably decent types to start in their race.

[We're Doomed 4,855]

Gee, just had a look at the noms for the Cup; only 22 left in it and only three of those rated higher than 89. Thank god for the Cromwell form to add some class to the race. It could potentially end up the worse Cup field ever and might struggle to be a capacity field.

[von Smallhaussen 3,226]

W D - where are they going to get 15 x 53kg jocks from 

[Fartoomuch 1,376]

4 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

Gee, just had a look at the noms for the Cup; only 22 left in it and only three of those rated higher than 89. Thank god for the Cromwell form to add some class to the race. It could potentially end up the worse Cup field ever and might struggle to be a capacity field.

Its tragic for the owners of PE or maybe not  Most poorly placed horse in NZ IMHO as its won next to nothing and was told they want to use this race as a stepping stone to Sydney Cup.

[Insider 3,942]

7 hours ago, poundforpound said:

C’mon Liz, you know in your heart that the WRC has destroyed their own carnival with bad tracks and bad management.

You’ll never get it back to where it was ( and you want it to be ) 40 years ago when the Ferrari’s populated the car park and even the law abiding good guys did Class A off the backs of their friend’s wives before retiring to the trannies haunt, aka The Royal Oak, for a night of debauchery and hedonism.

I note you’ve tried to get Trelisse Cooper to  reinvent your fashion etc..save your money Liz, that pig of yours won’t look any better with another layer of lipstick.

Meantime Ellerslie with be stacked ten deep with exotic pussy & beautiful people on “million dollar” night, mainly because those associated with that night know how to put on a party.

 

 

I'll see you there then, Ellerslie that is. You look out for the girls and I will look out for the Guys.

P.S. Which meeting will have the biggest turnover, lipstick on or lipstick off?

[Insider 3,942]

7 hours ago, poundforpound said:

Meantime Ellerslie with be stacked ten deep with exotic pussy & beautiful people on “million dollar” night, mainly because those associated with that night know how to put on a party.

But do they bet or are they just there to look pretty?

[bloke 1,232]

5 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

Gee, just had a look at the noms for the Cup; only 22 left in it and only three of those rated higher than 89. Thank god for the Cromwell form to add some class to the race. It could potentially end up the worse Cup field ever and might struggle to be a capacity field.

It is sad that 2 mile races have little appeal. The NZ Cup only had 12 starters, Wellington will be marginally better and it is inevitable that  The Auckland  Cup  will be down graded in time to a Group 3.

The Magic Millions will be popular with Posers, A listers and breeders. The Auckland Racing Club kicked NZ Thoroughbred Breeders out of Ellerslie so I would have thought that the Big Studs would have flexed muscle against them but they appear to have greased up to Auckland

[We're Doomed 4,855]

1 hour ago, Fartoomuch said:

Its tragic for the owners of PE or maybe not  Most poorly placed horse in NZ IMHO as its won next to nothing and was told they want to use this race as a stepping stone to Sydney Cup.

I don't think he is poorly placed, SI horses are just very disadvantaged under the handicaping system. Their only option is to do what that Wingatui mare has done and go and race at Awapuni and win nothing, so an expensive exercise compared to hanging around home and getting hammered in the handicaps. Pretty tough choice. Unfortunately SI horses don't really have much opportunity to win good money coming through the grades before they hit open company.

[TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774]

1 hour ago, We're Doomed said:

I don't think he is poorly placed, SI horses are just very disadvantaged under the handicaping system. Their only option is to do what that Wingatui mare has done and go and race at Awapuni and win nothing, so an expensive exercise compared to hanging around home and getting hammered in the handicaps. Pretty tough choice. Unfortunately SI horses don't really have much opportunity to win good money coming through the grades before they hit open company.

Don't know that he is so badly disadvantaged either - he has won $197k from ten wins in twenty starts and rates 101.  Saint Emilion as a comparison has won $243k from 11 wins in 34 starts and rates 96.  The comparison is not that bad.  Patrick Erin is just a consistent horse and when you are consistent it is bloody hard to get your rating down.

There is good money in South Island Racing and blokes like Pitty are experts at picking it up.  Riccarton in particular have a series of feature days in Spring and Autumn.

[Trump 2,741]

13 hours ago, bloke said:

It is sad that 2 mile races have little appeal. The NZ Cup only had 12 starters, Wellington will be marginally better and it is inevitable that  The Auckland  Cup  will be down graded in time to a Group 3.

The Magic Millions will be popular with Posers, A listers and breeders. The Auckland Racing Club kicked NZ Thoroughbred Breeders out of Ellerslie so I would have thought that the Big Studs would have flexed muscle against them but they appear to have greased up to Auckland

How can you come to that conclusion? One of NZ 's most successful Stud operators has/is Russell Warwick (Westbury). He was on the Board of ArC and Chairman for many years! Are you saying he kicked his own Industry out? Strange. 

[Huey 2,037]

On 1/7/2018 at 9:22 PM, Insider said:

Wellington Cup Day is traditionally the biggest betting day in the country!

Will it be this year or will it be overtaken by the new Karaka Millions raceday with its 2 x million dollar sweepstake races and its supporting cast of Black Type races?

Through circumstances, having the Wellington Cup, the Thorndon and the Telegraph on the same day creates a mouth watering offering.

There again Ellerslie with the two $1 Million Dollar Races and the supporting Black Type races, offers something possibly equally appealing.

I will be at both meetings, that’s for sure  

Who else will be at both and which meeting do you think will come out on top, betting wise? 

The old way or the new way?

Test cricket or T20?

 

 

 

 

Trentham will have the better turnover a great days racing on the countrys best  track.

I'm going to  Trentham, but not Ellerslie the people there are just too good looking,refined and sharp for me.

[bloke 1,232]

48 minutes ago, Trump said:

How can you come to that conclusion? One of NZ 's most successful Stud operators has/is Russell Warwick (Westbury). He was on the Board of ArC and Chairman for many years! Are you saying he kicked his own Industry out? Strange. 

That is excatly what happened. Ellerslie sent them packing. Bloody disgraceful

[We're Doomed 4,855]

46 minutes ago, Huey said:

 

I'm going to  Trentham, but not Ellerslie the people there are just too good looking,refined and sharp for me.

Pound4pound?

[Trump 2,741]

3 hours ago, bloke said:

That is excatly what happened. Ellerslie sent them packing. Bloody disgraceful

Many will say that youre talking rubbish. 

[Insider 3,942]

42 minutes ago, Trump said:

Many will say that youre talking rubbish. 

Well he is not!

It’s fact and a bloody disgrace.

They (NZTBA) owned the building valued at 600k, but it was on leasehold land owned by the ARC. (It was a lease agreed many years earlier, but those that did it, had since moved on.)

The Breeders were forced to go and leave everything behind. It was not possible to even shift the building. A 600K loss. 

Unfortunately the building is still sitting there unused, so they still could have been there! Instead they are now paying rent in Cambridge. 

Trump, the above are the facts. 

[Trump 2,741]

What happened to the Lease? Did it expire?

[von Smallhaussen 3,226]

7 minutes ago, Trump said:

What happened to the Lease? Did it expire?

Trump - a lot of things in NZ Racing have expired! 

[Fartoomuch 1,376]

16 hours ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said:

Don't know that he is so badly disadvantaged either - he has won $197k from ten wins in twenty starts and rates 101.  Saint Emilion as a comparison has won $243k from 11 wins in 34 starts and rates 96.  The comparison is not that bad.  Patrick Erin is just a consistent horse and when you are consistent it is bloody hard to get your rating down.

There is good money in South Island Racing and blokes like Pitty are experts at picking it up.  Riccarton in particular have a series of feature days in Spring and Autumn.

Can i suggest to you that if the horse was running around in Ozzie winning listed and open races PE would probably have a 1 in front of its current stakes. The owners turned down large money for an outright deal and even better for a 50% deal for it to go to Ozzie many starts ago. Thats there choice but if its 101 now what will the ozzie handicapper give it in Sydney cup should it win the WC

 

[TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774]

16 minutes ago, Fartoomuch said:

Can i suggest to you that if the horse was running around in Ozzie winning listed and open races PE would probably have a 1 in front of its current stakes. The owners turned down large money for an outright deal and even better for a 50% deal for it to go to Ozzie many starts ago. Thats there choice but if its 101 now what will the ozzie handicapper give it in Sydney cup should it win the WC

 

Saint Emilion probably would too.  But then Kawi would probably have a three or five in front of his stakes tally, Consensus a two and so on and so on.  If you are going degrade NZ horses to ratings that would make them competitive in Aussie handicaps they would probably all be R75's and then not get in.  I am sure the point WD was making was in relation to fellow NZ horses not Aussie racing.

It is the prerogative of Patrick Erin's owners whether they sold him or not and the Sydney Cup is a bloody long way away.  Good luck to them however - it would be great to see an NZ stayer win another major Aussie two miler. 

[Fartoomuch 1,376]

17 minutes ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said:

Saint Emilion probably would too.  But then Kawi would probably have a three or five in front of his stakes tally, Consensus a two and so on and so on.  If you are going degrade NZ horses to ratings that would make them competitive in Aussie handicaps they would probably all be R75's and then not get in.  I am sure the point WD was making was in relation to fellow NZ horses not Aussie racing.

It is the prerogative of Patrick Erin's owners whether they sold him or not and the Sydney Cup is a bloody long way away.  Good luck to them however - it would be great to see an NZ stayer win another major Aussie two miler. 

So if it wins W Cup what rating would it go to both here and in Ozzie in your opinion,which i respect

PS, Kawi went to Ozzie and went basically nil  from memory

[Trump 2,741]

If Kawi was to perform in Oz then I think Qld's winter carnival would have been his "best" chance.

[TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774]

3 hours ago, Fartoomuch said:

So if it wins W Cup what rating would it go to both here and in Ozzie in your opinion,which i respect

PS, Kawi went to Ozzie and went basically nil  from memory

I have no idea as I am not a student of the handicapping system and all its flaws(though I imagine he would got to say 105 given the poor quality of the likely field

And the fact that Kawi went not too well in Aussie is not the point I make - if he won seven G1's in Aussie he would have at least $5 in the bank

Patrick Erin could get into the Sydney Cup on the minimum and struggle to win it - it is an attractive stake and plenty of Northern Hemisphere breds will be chasing it

 

 

[bloke 1,232]

6 hours ago, Trump said:

Many will say that youre talking rubbish. 

No its not Fake News or Bullshit. That's what your namesake is good at 

[TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774]

1 hour ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said:

I have no idea as I am not a student of the handicapping system and all its flaws(though I imagine he would got to say 105 given the poor quality of the likely field

And the fact that Kawi went not too well in Aussie is not the point I make - if he won seven G1's in Aussie he would have at least $5 in the bank

Patrick Erin could get into the Sydney Cup on the minimum and struggle to win it - it is an attractive stake and plenty of Northern Hemisphere breds will be chasing it

 

 

$5 million not $5